Socialists Will Save The World

[hermanntrude]

I was reading an essay last night that dealt in part with the tendency of liberals and spongy leftists in general to see socialism as unrealistic.When in fact socialism is far more realistic than pie in the sky pipe dreams sold by capitalism. This tendency to see unrealism in practical solutions offered by socially responsible methods is a result of the conditioning the capitalist system. It's exactly the thinking that has kept social medicine out of the states when the evidence in support of exactly that is overwhelming. Trashing socialism is usually based on brainwashing not facts.

I cant claim to know all the facts, which is why i said it "seems" to be unrealistic. I'm well aware of the conditioning ive been subject to, just not quite sure where it applies and how. Certainly i'm all for social health systems.

 

[hermanntrude]

left to their own devices capitalist entities are just as prone to eating their young. that's the nature of the bureaucratic beast.

Although come to think of it that applies well to capitalism too.

....

 

[L Gilbert]

Humans are animals. Omnivorous scavenger type animals. There are myriads of species of the same type that eat their young (eg, lions, grizzly, several birds, fish, etc.). I haven't tried it yet, myself, though.
The more extreme either socialism or capitalism get the harder they are on people, too. Socialists tend to forget that capitalism makes it possible to make the money to do its socialistic stuff. Even China is finding that out. Capitalists forget that they often shoulder aside or even climb on people less interested in being greedy or are simply unable to be as aggressive as they are.
Perhaps what I said somewhere else here is really applicable: the right have no heart and the left have no brains. And to paraphrase Galbraith; in both socialism and capitalism, humans exploit humans.

 

[BitWhys]

....

perhaps I put too fine a point on it.

sorry bout dat

 

[darkbeaver]

Humans are animals. Omnivorous scavenger type animals. There are myriads of species of the same type that eat their young (eg, lions, grizzly, several birds, fish, etc.). I haven't tried it yet, myself, though.
The more extreme either socialism or capitalism get the harder they are on people, too. Socialists tend to forget that capitalism makes it possible to make the money to do its socialistic stuff. Even China is finding that out. Capitalists forget that they often shoulder aside or even climb on people less interested in being greedy or are simply unable to be as aggressive as they are.
Perhaps what I said somewhere else here is really applicable: the right have no heart and the left have no brains. And to paraphrase Galbraith; in both socialism and capitalism, humans exploit humans.

That Galbraith quote needs to be put in context. What system of governance wouldn't exploit people? Exploitation can't be avoided but it can be regulated and humanized.

 

[darkbeaver]

Humans are animals. Omnivorous scavenger type animals. There are myriads of species of the same type that eat their young (eg, lions, grizzly, several birds, fish, etc.). I haven't tried it yet, myself, though.
The more extreme either socialism or capitalism get the harder they are on people, too. Socialists tend to forget that capitalism makes it possible to make the money to do its socialistic stuff. Even China is finding that out. Capitalists forget that they often shoulder aside or even climb on people less interested in being greedy or are simply unable to be as aggressive as they are.
Perhaps what I said somewhere else here is really applicable: the right have no heart and the left have no brains. And to paraphrase Galbraith; in both socialism and capitalism, humans exploit humans.

That Galbraith quote needs to be put in context. What system of governance wouldn't exploit people? Exploitation can't be avoided but it can be regulated and humanized.Capitalism is not the only way to make a living is it?

 

[crit13]

Politics and bashing aside, which country would you rather live in....
Socialist countries
Cuba, N. Korea, Venezuela,
Capitalist counries
Canada, Britain, Australia, Europe

 

[L Gilbert]

That Galbraith quote needs to be put in context. What system of governance wouldn't exploit people? Exploitation can't be avoided but it can be regulated and humanized.Capitalism is not the only way to make a living is it?

Perhaps not, but it works for me. (I'm assuming the first question is rhetorical and the second required an answer).
Perhaps everyone should put their money in the gov't pot and trust the gov't? (rhteorical question) I don't think so. The best road is somewhere between the extremes and probably close to the center, kinda like what we have now except with better efficiency, and more care applied to the regulation.

 

[darkbeaver]

Perhaps not, but it works for me. (I'm assuming the first question is rhetorical and the second required an answer).
Perhaps everyone should put their money in the gov't pot and trust the gov't? (rhteorical question) I don't think so. The best road is somewhere between the extremes and probably close to the center, kinda like what we have now except with better efficiency, and more care applied to the regulation.

I'll agree with your middle idea but we ain't in the middle yet and we have never been. The proposed
SSP deals plainly points out in what direction we're going if we don't act.

 

[Northboy]

One for all and all for one etc etc; maybe I'm a bit to idealistic but I do believe that we must embrace socialism, we cannot address the pressing problems of mankind through the capitalist model.
I have capitalist tendencys myself but like disease they must be subject to treatment I cannot be allowed to rape and pillage my nieghbours at will.
I am happy to see you're back Colpy. Extensive brain surgery is routine these days, you're lucky you only use 5% of yours and you won't miss the other 4 grams anyway,hahaha:lol:

What about a democratized commonwealth system where infrastructure as deemed by the People is operated in a public trust to create a level playing field for business and entrepreneurs to create a solid economy for the benefit of all??

 

[Tonington]

I'd go further BitWhyt and say that in the case of something like students loans capitalist actually eat the young while they're still alive an apendage at a time.

I don't know about appendages, but I could pay for one semester with a kidney, though by my families medical history might be a tad short-sighted...

 

[darkbeaver]

Politics and bashing aside, which country would you rather live in....
Socialist countries
Cuba, N. Korea, Venezuela,
Capitalist counries
Canada, Britain, Australia, Europe

I don't have to make that choice, I live in Canada and I'll change it to suit me.No serious person would hold up N Korea as an example of anything other than a despotic mess. I notice you conviently forgot to give us choices like Phillipines, El Salvadore, Guatemala, Mexico and about a hundred others that follow the capitalist plan, and are cesspools of dispare and corruption.

 

[crit13]

Phillipines, El Salvadore, Guatemala, Mexico and about a hundred others that follow the capitalist plan, and are cesspools of dispare and corruption.

I would still include them since all those "cesspools" as you describe them are far better than N.Korea or Cuba.
Socialism brings everyone down to the lowest common denominator.

I can name you dozens of highly successful capitalist countries.
Can you name me a single highly succesful socialist one?
If you can't do that, then this thread is a waste of bandwidth.

 

[Tonington]

I think the choice between either or is a false dichotomy. Either extreme is fraught with it's negatives. I think the issue here is how far to take it, and I doubt anyone would advocate for the extremes like N.Korea....

 

[Toro]

Whew!

Thank heavens!

I was getting tired of working hard anyways.

When the socialist hordes take over, its gonna be Loaf City for this cowboy!

 

[darkbeaver]

Toro you must be exhausted counting all your gold, take a break, hire someone to do that for you. A man of your handsomeness shouldn't have to work anyway.:lol:

 

[darkbeaver]

I would still include them since all those "cesspools" as you describe them are far better than N.Korea or Cuba.
Socialism brings everyone down to the lowest common denominator.

I can name you dozens of highly successful capitalist countries.
Can you name me a single highly succesful socialist one?
If you can't do that, then this thread is a waste of bandwidth.

Venusalea and Cuba and Sweden and Norway and Canada there are lots of them stinky.:lol:

 

[L Gilbert]

I'll agree with your middle idea but we ain't in the middle yet and we have never been.

You are suggesting that we're at an extreme? I hardly think so. China is more of an extreme than we are on the socialist side, and the States are more of an extreme than we are on the capitalist side. I think you're fibbing.

The proposed SSP deals plainly points out in what direction we're going if we don't act.

Perhaps. But I still don't think even that would put us in an extreme position.

 

[L Gilbert]

Whew!

Thank heavens!

I was getting tired of working hard anyways.

When the socialist hordes take over, its gonna be Loaf City for this cowboy!

I have seen socialists do their level best to turn BC into a socialist heaven. All they succeeded in doing was bankrupting BC and driving businesses and workers out of the province.

 

[darkbeaver]

You are suggesting that we're at an extreme? I hardly think so. China is more of an extreme than we are on the socialist side, and the States are more of an extreme than we are on the capitalist side. I think you're fibbing. Perhaps. But I still don't think even that would put us in an extreme position.

I'm not suggesting we're extreme I am suggesting that we're not in the middle and we do lean to the right rather muchly.:lol: