Social Engineering for profit

[Missplaced]

SLM

You bring up another good point! With the proliferation of electronic means to manage our lives around...doesn't that suggest that household incomes, utility loads, study habits {our kids often have their own TVs yes} and an awful lot more are both directly and indirectly effected by our surfing on the event-wave of modern technology? Is there any relationship do you suppose between the plague of childhood obesity and TV advertising targeting children?

 

[CDNBear]

I loved reading this thread, thanks to all.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

All you young whippersnappers and your reading and writing, spending all your time staring at pieces of paper! Back in my day if you wanted to know something you had to TALK to somebody, face to face! You kids just stick your faces in a book and never deal with people! It rots your brain! I bet there ain't a one of you can remember even three hundred stanzas of poetry! When I were a lad, we all knew thousands!

Damn newfangled kids and your newfangled inventions!

 

[CDNBear]

What a shame, it was such a nice conversation, until...

 

[SLM]

SLM

You bring up another good point! With the proliferation of electronic means to manage our lives around...doesn't that suggest that household incomes, utility loads, study habits {our kids often have their own TVs yes} and an awful lot more are both directly and indirectly effected by our surfing on the event-wave of modern technology?

But then don't you have to stop and wonder when print and reading, books, became readily available some parents weren't wringing their hands over their kids not playing outside as much too? Ok, maybe that's a bit of a stretch admittedly but I hope you see my point. The advent of "new" is often embraced more easily by the younger generations, as we age we become 'set in our ways'. How many times do you hear "when I was young things were so much better"...but were they? Maybe in some ways they were, possibly in some ways they weren't. But the thing is, it's really not about better or worse, good or bad, it's really just about different and how much different we're each willing to accept and how easily we can accept it. When it comes to kids, it's up to parents to set boundaries, with all things.

Is there any relationship do you suppose between the plague of childhood obesity and TV advertising targeting children?

A relationship, perhaps but it's not the only one. The only way it would be a singular relationship is if you have completely submissive parents who indulge every single whim of the child. The advertising may be targeting children but they are not the ones making the purchasing decisions.

 

[Missplaced]

SLM

Good evening to you!

Although we've strayed somewhat from the core premise, you continue to provide provocative and insightful counterpoint.

It would be fallacious to argue for even a moment that advances made in virtually every human endeavor that directly impacts longevity, quality of life, opportunity for realization of potential etc.that modern technology hasn't played a significant role and although these are perfectly valid observation. the thematic core I'm interested in examining is the impact that social engineering has had on our lives. I doubt that anyone could successfully argue that influences which have been ever-present in the political paradigm and many others hasn't realized greater ability to influence social dynamics as a direct outgrowth of the technology we've addressed. The facility afforded by the Internet which allows diverse opinions and particular perspectives to be shared and evaluated by numbers of people, orders of magnitude greater than horse and buggy days communications is indisputable. But with these incredible advances, the opportunity for unscrupulous business practices, the proliferation of bankrupt government policies that impact everyone is flourishing. The most recent exposure of NSA/Corporate eavesdropping on private citizens, corporate offices and religious gatherings is only the tip of the iceberg.

Is the effort to steal information and build fear and suspicion based on unverifiable and highly suspect "information" undertaken to solidify confidence in our legislative bodies, our business and economic engines and influence our habits and our appetites to our benefit or to the benefit of those who'd limit our freedoms and relegate us to phantom slavery?

 

[darkbeaver]

Conditioning today more than then is accomplished by multiplicity of choice promising individuality, right up until relatively recently. Now necessity will rule more than many of us are used to or can manage. All the practical skills and experiences displaced or wiped out by the consumer choice and opportunity overload will become vital. False religion has been replaced by false choice just as unrelated to actual necessity but even more hypnotizing and destructive. A correction is fast approaching I think.

 

[Angstrom]

It's like having a computer with you, anywhere at anytime... My productivity at work is up.

As for your damn kids rant. Well who you think bought them the damn thing?
Blame the dumb parents, not the kids. Them kids just doing the best they can with the dumb parents they have.

Then ask yourself. Who showed those dumb parents how to be dumb. Next thing you should ask yourself is where did I go wrong.
Cause all the **** in this world is because of how our ancestors let it become.

The kids just do the best they can with what they are given.

 

[Missplaced]

Conditioning today more than then is accomplished by multiplicity of choice promising individuality, right up until relatively recently. Now necessity will rule more than many of us are used to or can manage. All the practical skills and experiences displaced or wiped out by the consumer choice and opportunity overload will become vital. False religion has been replaced by false choice just as unrelated to actual necessity but even more hypnotizing and destructive. A correction is fast approaching I think.

Darkbeaver

I'm fairly sure we met on the GAB site a few years ago... if not nice to correspond with you and have your input.

Would you agree that it's the myth of "choice" that supplies the power that's siphoned off by corporations and governments to build structures of fear and engenders compliance through apathy and ignorance? Lies that would make Machiavelli himself blush are commonplace in today's media. Whole wars trumped up by political figures heavily invested in arms trade and media engines like CNN and FOX more than prepared to support ridiculous contentions for which they are paid through advertising and pseudo-free press.

Thoughts?

Angstrom

Greetings and thanks for your perspective.

I'm so out of touch with what kids are experiencing today...perhaps you can help me? I learned the times tables and memorized literature, wrote essays about historical events and people, attended lectures and study halls where experts in various fields presented research data and challenged the students.

Two questions.

Are parents given the tools to help their school aged kids get the most out of our modern technology {including the four hundred dollar smart-phone they just haave to have}, and are parents knowledgeable enough to teach research skills that are consonant with the curriculum that their kids receive?

Is there any reason to continue sending kids to school when everything they need to know is only a button push away?

I was reviewing my responses to the many fine people who took the time to participate in this thread and it struck me that it wouldn't be ludicrous to conclude that Missplaced is a conspiracy theory nutbar...

Just for fun : General Motors streetcar conspiracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Angstrom]

Most parents today are not even what you would consider parents,
They send their children to school thinking teachers are supposed to
Do the parenting.

In other word, school has become for many parents subsidized parenting so they don't have to do it.
Both parents concentrate on brining home money, nothing more.

I bet many kids are closer to their cell phone then to their parents lol.
Cause most parents that buy them for their kids want a constent way of communication with
their kids cause they are never hardly home.

As in, the kids and the parents .

 

[darkbeaver]

Darkbeaver

I'm fairly sure we met on the GAB site a few years ago... if not nice to correspond with you and have your input.

Would you agree that it's the myth of "choice" that supplies the power that's siphoned off by corporations and governments to build structures of fear and engenders compliance through apathy and ignorance? Lies that would make Machiavelli himself blush are commonplace in today's media. Whole wars trumped up by political figures heavily invested in arms trade and media engines like CNN and FOX more than prepared to support ridiculous contentions for which they are paid through advertising and pseudo-free press.

GAB does not ring bells. Myth has never enjoyed such popularity or utility. I can't think of a time so poisoned with corruption and lies but only because of the scale and speed. The cycle of rise and fall will not be broken. We have to take the good with the bad. They are welded together and changing that would be an unimaginable abomination. That polarity is absolute.

Social engineering is good when society as a whole profits.

 

[SLM]

SLM

Good evening to you!

Although we've strayed somewhat from the core premise,

All real conversation does that.

It would be fallacious to argue for even a moment that advances made in virtually every human endeavor that directly impacts longevity, quality of life, opportunity for realization of potential etc.that modern technology hasn't played a significant role and although these are perfectly valid observation. the thematic core I'm interested in examining is the impact that social engineering has had on our lives. I doubt that anyone could successfully argue that influences which have been ever-present in the political paradigm and many others hasn't realized greater ability to influence social dynamics as a direct outgrowth of the technology we've addressed. The facility afforded by the Internet which allows diverse opinions and particular perspectives to be shared and evaluated by numbers of people, orders of magnitude greater than horse and buggy days communications is indisputable. But with these incredible advances, the opportunity for unscrupulous business practices, the proliferation of bankrupt government policies that impact everyone is flourishing. The most recent exposure of NSA/Corporate eavesdropping on private citizens, corporate offices and religious gatherings is only the tip of the iceberg.

Nothing that you mention was non-existent prior to technological advancement. Greed, lust for power, stepping on others to get ahead, this is as much a part of the human condition as anything else. Is it magnified due to technology? Maybe. But is it necessarily any more "evil" (for lack of a better term), I'm not so sure. Take the Proliferation of "online bullying" as an example. Was it the advent of technology that caused people to be more cruel? Of course not, cruelty has always existed as one of the more unfortunate aspects of human social interaction. Is it's reach greater due to technology? Definitely, but is that automatically a bad thing? On the surface it might seem so, but without the bright spotlight of awareness that social media puts on it, it wouldn't be discussed as it has been and the cruelty would just go on as it always has. Again, it's how we use the tools before us, but the tools don't "make the man" so to speak.

Is the effort to steal information and build fear and suspicion based on unverifiable and highly suspect "information" undertaken to solidify confidence in our legislative bodies, our business and economic engines and influence our habits and our appetites to our benefit or to the benefit of those who'd limit our freedoms and relegate us to phantom slavery?

How can "they" possibly be limiting our freedom when here we are, utilizing the same technology, to freely discuss it.

 

[Missplaced]

SLM

When social engineering defines the context of what is discussed our choice is taken away. If people are concerned enough about the outcomes of poor government and corrupt business and the only avenue open to them is to discuss their discontent,while it may appear that people have freedom, it is an appearance only. Politicians use the tempest in a tea-pot strategy to focus attention away from issues that actually demonstrate their culpability and mismanagement.When provincial premiers point at teachers salaries, escalating healthcare costs, infrastructure decay, environmental destruction etc. etc. these push-buttons focus the electorates attention not on the genesis or source of whatever the problem might be, but gets people talking about the product/result not the precedents to the calamity.

When people get sick and die from tainted food, in many cases {yes not all} food inspection has failed to protect them from unsanitary processes and inadequate oversight by industry. When the air ambulance fiasco exposed a million dollar salary paid to the CEO that became the focus not the inadequacy of the Minister of Health whose job it is to manage healthcare costs. When billions of dollars are lost by governments and no accountability is brought to bear, we can discuss it and write about it and froth at the mouth but is there any attention given to ensuring that unscrupulous legislators are held to the same standard that for instance Canada Revenue Services imposes on the private individual? When governments prorogue legislatures, are the people given the opportunity/answers about what's actually behind this action...or can we just talk about it?

When people can no longer trust that the water they're drinking is safe, is it enough to only discuss the causes and ignore the responsibility that elected representatives are given? When homelessness and poverty are rampant throughout a nation is the discussion of the situation adequate to the task of finding a solution, and when food banks and charities are overwhelmed is it enough to discuss the need as opposed to holding the government and businesses responsible for wasted billions while the taxpayer forks out billions to entertain visiting heads of state? The issue is that our freedoms aren't taken away by an invading army or in one fell swoop by a government-gone-crazy, our freedoms are lost in little ways and our fears are amplified by phoney warnings and dire predictions from people we've been led to believe have our best interests at heart.

I would agree that there are countries around the planet where discourse that criticizes government is a criminal offense punishable by death, but our focus here and now is preserving the freedoms we have, not surrendering to the ...throwing their hands in the air and wailing {Canadians}..."Well there's nothing you can do so what's the point!?"

 

[Cliffy]

Hi SLM!

You're right of course and it's difficult to divorce the behavior from the habit, but would ;you agree with me that the technology {and the way it's promoted} amplifies the condition?

Technology (cell phones, iPads, etc) are the new drug of choice for those who demand to be the center of the universe.

 

[Missplaced]

Technology (cell phones, iPads, etc) are the new drug of choice for those who demand to be the center of the universe.

Good Morning Cliffy!

Frightening isn't it? Would you care to comment on the observation made earlier that like many things "new" gadgets have an initial notoriety but eventually disappear?

Would it be fair to suggest that if big-business is making billions in profits{Rogers and Bell for instance} that the longevity of the cell-phone/Ipod/smartphone/tablet craze won't be disappearing any time soon?

 

[Cliffy]

Good Morning Cliffy!

Frightening isn't it? Would you care to comment on the observation made earlier that like many things "new" gadgets have an initial notoriety but eventually disappear?

Would it be fair to suggest that if big-business is making billions in profits{Rogers and Bell for instance} that the longevity of the cell-phone/Ipod/smartphone/tablet craze won't be disappearing any time soon?

I'm thinking technology of today is just a beginning. We are being conditioned to accept more and more and eventually we will have chips imbedded in our brains. We won't need any external devices to be plugged into the Collective (the Borg). We are moving closer every day to being drones in the machine. I see it on here every day when I see people spew opinions spoon fed to them by media pundits.

It is quite refreshing to have someone new come on here who actually thinks for themselves (although you are not the only one, too many on here are media drones.)

 

[petros]

Technology (cell phones, iPads, etc) are the new drug of choice for those who demand to be the center of the universe.

Bongjour mon ami. Up early smoking a bowl of forum are ya? Wake and bake?

 

[Missplaced]

Cliffy

At what point do we stop feeling sorry for all the weak-minded narcissists who need constant validation through devices that allow them to feel they're the center of the universe? They're incapable of making any kind of contribution that involves anything but their own narrow view of the world. I feel a pang of regret that weak-minded folk walk off subway platforms or wander into traffic while also thankful that there are significant numbers of others who don't carry around the albatross of their own infirmity and foist it on anyone passing by.

 

[petros]

Hold still. I'll call the Cascade Kitchen Counselor.

 

[darkbeaver]

Social engineering for the profit of the broader society, what's wrong with that? Maybe the word engineering carries too much baggage? What if we call it social cultivation or social enrichment or social guidance or social tuning? Maybe cultures are best raised "free range"?