So..what happened to my "freedom of speech" thread

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: So..what happened to

There are also laws against hate speech in this country and nobody ever said this forum was a place to promote racism. I never saw the original thread and neither did you. Peapod made a call based on some phrasing and a complaint from another poster. That's part of her role as a moderator...to make calls exactly like that.

It would be another matter if this sort of thing happened here all the time, but it doesn't. The other sites that we've spoken about delete dissenting views, not based on possibly objectional material but because they simply do not agree with the politcal bent of those views, on a regular basis. Some of them have been known not only to ban people for holding those views, but to post people's IPs.

I've had, at various sites, my posts changed; supporting links deleted; my e-mail address published; and my IP passed around. I've been flamed, stalked, abused, physically threatened, and received e-mails and PMs from people who are mentally unbalanced. I even had one guy send a threatening e-mail to my mother.

That isn't much of a problem here because things are moderated as fairly as possible, but they are moderated. There is no absolute freedom of speech. I've been to sites where that's been tried, most of them are gone now. Many citing legal issues as their reason for shutting down.

Usually we will edit a personal attack or obscenity by noting it as such, but leave the post and thread as much intact as possible. In this case a moderator chose to delete the thread. I'm not going to second guess her. I never saw the original post and even if I did, racial issues can be very touchy and people's perceptions of what has been said can lead to different decisions.

It was her decision to make and she made it. She's given nobody any reason to question her integrity or the integrity of Canadian Content.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: So..what happened to

There are also laws against hate speech in this country and nobody ever said this forum was a place to promote racism. I never saw the original thread and neither did you. Peapod made a call based on some phrasing and a complaint from another poster. That's part of her role as a moderator...to make calls exactly like that.

It would be another matter if this sort of thing happened here all the time, but it doesn't. The other sites that we've spoken about delete dissenting views, not based on possibly objectional material but because they simply do not agree with the politcal bent of those views, on a regular basis. Some of them have been known not only to ban people for holding those views, but to post people's IPs.

I've had, at various sites, my posts changed; supporting links deleted; my e-mail address published; and my IP passed around. I've been flamed, stalked, abused, physically threatened, and received e-mails and PMs from people who are mentally unbalanced. I even had one guy send a threatening e-mail to my mother.

That isn't much of a problem here because things are moderated as fairly as possible, but they are moderated. There is no absolute freedom of speech. I've been to sites where that's been tried, most of them are gone now. Many citing legal issues as their reason for shutting down.

Usually we will edit a personal attack or obscenity by noting it as such, but leave the post and thread as much intact as possible. In this case a moderator chose to delete the thread. I'm not going to second guess her. I never saw the original post and even if I did, racial issues can be very touchy and people's perceptions of what has been said can lead to different decisions.

It was her decision to make and she made it. She's given nobody any reason to question her integrity or the integrity of Canadian Content.
 

Stretch

House Member
Feb 16, 2003
3,924
19
38
Australia
RE: So..what happened to my "freedom of speech" th

Andem, tell me something mate, when "Ernst Zundel" gets a mentioned......this red flag you're talking about......it shoots up a flag pole in your office or what, bells and whistles go off........what happens when Ernst Zundel" is mentioned........



what "guidelines" are you working to?
 

Stretch

House Member
Feb 16, 2003
3,924
19
38
Australia
RE: So..what happened to my "freedom of speech" th

Andem, tell me something mate, when "Ernst Zundel" gets a mentioned......this red flag you're talking about......it shoots up a flag pole in your office or what, bells and whistles go off........what happens when Ernst Zundel" is mentioned........



what "guidelines" are you working to?
 

Stretch

House Member
Feb 16, 2003
3,924
19
38
Australia
RE: So..what happened to my "freedom of speech" th

Andem, tell me something mate, when "Ernst Zundel" gets a mentioned......this red flag you're talking about......it shoots up a flag pole in your office or what, bells and whistles go off........what happens when Ernst Zundel" is mentioned........



what "guidelines" are you working to?
 

LadyC

Time Out
Sep 3, 2004
1,340
0
36
the left coast
RE: So..what happened to my "freedom of speech" th

Stretch...
If your intent is to discuss freedom of speech and fight for Zundel's release may I suggest you post a different article? I speak only for myself but my objection to your original post was the use of the term "Zionist legend" repeatedly in reference to the Holocaust.

It didn't raise a red flag for me, but that's certainly the colour I saw.
 

LadyC

Time Out
Sep 3, 2004
1,340
0
36
the left coast
RE: So..what happened to my "freedom of speech" th

Stretch...
If your intent is to discuss freedom of speech and fight for Zundel's release may I suggest you post a different article? I speak only for myself but my objection to your original post was the use of the term "Zionist legend" repeatedly in reference to the Holocaust.

It didn't raise a red flag for me, but that's certainly the colour I saw.
 

LadyC

Time Out
Sep 3, 2004
1,340
0
36
the left coast
RE: So..what happened to my "freedom of speech" th

Stretch...
If your intent is to discuss freedom of speech and fight for Zundel's release may I suggest you post a different article? I speak only for myself but my objection to your original post was the use of the term "Zionist legend" repeatedly in reference to the Holocaust.

It didn't raise a red flag for me, but that's certainly the colour I saw.
 

marcarc

New Member
Jan 16, 2005
30
0
6
RE: So..what happened to my "freedom of speech" th

This IS dicy stuff, there are other people being victimized by bill c-68, so perhaps its better to focus on them. I certainly don't see 'zionist legend' as 'hate' literature, depending on its context. It's clearly wrong, since there's tons of documentary evidence. Being open minded at one point I thought I'd investigate that claim, and the 'presentation' of the material at first is intriguing, but all it takes is a little more digging (and not much) to find that its malarky.

It does, however, open up a can of worms in the 'fact vs. opinion' category. Just what are the rights of people to hold wrong views? To take an example even so-called 'enlightened' canadians are often reduced to racist elitists when it comes to the native question. Like the Zundel case people rarely have researched the issue and spout their opinion as if it's god given truth.

You'll also note that 'hate speech' has a lot of variables in our country. You'll notice that the above poster mentioned getting harassed, even threatened in emails, I doubt that bringing such information to the police would result in a criminal investigation to track down those responsible.

To conclude, I think that moderator did pull the plug at the right time. You can talk freedom of speech all you like, the point is that this website is privately owned and the people can do what they like. No right of free expression is being thwarted when people can create their own websites or blogs to spout whatever they feel. While I would argue the case against Zundel, I wouldn't extend it to defense of holocaust denial-although I would perhaps use it to broach the whole 'criticism of Israel' question, which is getting out of hand even for entire organizations of the hebrew faith.

I also wouldn't extend it to his "UFO's in Antartica" theory, which I think holocaust denial belongs in the same category.
 

marcarc

New Member
Jan 16, 2005
30
0
6
RE: So..what happened to my "freedom of speech" th

This IS dicy stuff, there are other people being victimized by bill c-68, so perhaps its better to focus on them. I certainly don't see 'zionist legend' as 'hate' literature, depending on its context. It's clearly wrong, since there's tons of documentary evidence. Being open minded at one point I thought I'd investigate that claim, and the 'presentation' of the material at first is intriguing, but all it takes is a little more digging (and not much) to find that its malarky.

It does, however, open up a can of worms in the 'fact vs. opinion' category. Just what are the rights of people to hold wrong views? To take an example even so-called 'enlightened' canadians are often reduced to racist elitists when it comes to the native question. Like the Zundel case people rarely have researched the issue and spout their opinion as if it's god given truth.

You'll also note that 'hate speech' has a lot of variables in our country. You'll notice that the above poster mentioned getting harassed, even threatened in emails, I doubt that bringing such information to the police would result in a criminal investigation to track down those responsible.

To conclude, I think that moderator did pull the plug at the right time. You can talk freedom of speech all you like, the point is that this website is privately owned and the people can do what they like. No right of free expression is being thwarted when people can create their own websites or blogs to spout whatever they feel. While I would argue the case against Zundel, I wouldn't extend it to defense of holocaust denial-although I would perhaps use it to broach the whole 'criticism of Israel' question, which is getting out of hand even for entire organizations of the hebrew faith.

I also wouldn't extend it to his "UFO's in Antartica" theory, which I think holocaust denial belongs in the same category.
 

marcarc

New Member
Jan 16, 2005
30
0
6
RE: So..what happened to my "freedom of speech" th

This IS dicy stuff, there are other people being victimized by bill c-68, so perhaps its better to focus on them. I certainly don't see 'zionist legend' as 'hate' literature, depending on its context. It's clearly wrong, since there's tons of documentary evidence. Being open minded at one point I thought I'd investigate that claim, and the 'presentation' of the material at first is intriguing, but all it takes is a little more digging (and not much) to find that its malarky.

It does, however, open up a can of worms in the 'fact vs. opinion' category. Just what are the rights of people to hold wrong views? To take an example even so-called 'enlightened' canadians are often reduced to racist elitists when it comes to the native question. Like the Zundel case people rarely have researched the issue and spout their opinion as if it's god given truth.

You'll also note that 'hate speech' has a lot of variables in our country. You'll notice that the above poster mentioned getting harassed, even threatened in emails, I doubt that bringing such information to the police would result in a criminal investigation to track down those responsible.

To conclude, I think that moderator did pull the plug at the right time. You can talk freedom of speech all you like, the point is that this website is privately owned and the people can do what they like. No right of free expression is being thwarted when people can create their own websites or blogs to spout whatever they feel. While I would argue the case against Zundel, I wouldn't extend it to defense of holocaust denial-although I would perhaps use it to broach the whole 'criticism of Israel' question, which is getting out of hand even for entire organizations of the hebrew faith.

I also wouldn't extend it to his "UFO's in Antartica" theory, which I think holocaust denial belongs in the same category.
 

peapod

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2004
10,745
0
36
pumpkin pie bungalow
Re: So..what happened to my "freedom of speech" th

Yes and there are those that will climb into bed with any marlaky if they think it will benefit their politics. I have seen better tatics in a kindergarden.
 

peapod

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2004
10,745
0
36
pumpkin pie bungalow
Re: So..what happened to my "freedom of speech" th

Yes and there are those that will climb into bed with any marlaky if they think it will benefit their politics. I have seen better tatics in a kindergarden.
 

peapod

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2004
10,745
0
36
pumpkin pie bungalow
Re: So..what happened to my "freedom of speech" th

Yes and there are those that will climb into bed with any marlaky if they think it will benefit their politics. I have seen better tatics in a kindergarden.
 

tibear

Electoral Member
Jan 25, 2005
854
0
16
RE: So..what happened to my "freedom of speech" th

I find it interesting, certain people don't want others "ramming" their believes onto them and yet these same people don't mind when their are the "rammers". :) :)
 

tibear

Electoral Member
Jan 25, 2005
854
0
16
RE: So..what happened to my "freedom of speech" th

I find it interesting, certain people don't want others "ramming" their believes onto them and yet these same people don't mind when their are the "rammers". :) :)
 

tibear

Electoral Member
Jan 25, 2005
854
0
16
RE: So..what happened to my "freedom of speech" th

I find it interesting, certain people don't want others "ramming" their believes onto them and yet these same people don't mind when their are the "rammers". :) :)