So..what happened to my "freedom of speech" thread
- Thread starter Stretch
- Start date
Re: So..what happened to my "freedom of speech" th
Yuh Know;
There was a link posted at the bottom of the article which was posted. I visited the site.
But, to be honest, Zundel kinda' bores me.
All he does is quibble over numbers.
But, regardless of numbers .... a halocaust did take place.
I don't think this crime against the Jewish folks in Germany was because they were of the Jewish religion. I think that it was the poor of Germany going against the rich of Germany.
A Class war.
Not a crime against religion but a crime against humanity.
I don't question halocaust evidence because it is not that important to me. It's the same with Rwanda ... if the media claims that a million people were slaughtered .... I don't question it. I'm not a number cruncher.
But ... I truly despise how these "victims" of the halocaust have dumped this guilt trip upon me for the past 50 years.
Enough already!
I truly despise the huge influence which Jewish folks have within this world.
I truly despise the foreign policy of Isael.
And .... I'm no fan of Zundel.
Hey! Marcarc
I quite agree with your view of Bill C-36.
I've followed it pretty closely myself.
It is my view that all this "security" is because the economy is collapsing and the government is looking for any means of control.
They did the same thing in the 60's.
The governments of the world are runnin' scared.
Calm
Yuh Know;
There was a link posted at the bottom of the article which was posted. I visited the site.
But, to be honest, Zundel kinda' bores me.
All he does is quibble over numbers.
But, regardless of numbers .... a halocaust did take place.
I don't think this crime against the Jewish folks in Germany was because they were of the Jewish religion. I think that it was the poor of Germany going against the rich of Germany.
A Class war.
Not a crime against religion but a crime against humanity.
I don't question halocaust evidence because it is not that important to me. It's the same with Rwanda ... if the media claims that a million people were slaughtered .... I don't question it. I'm not a number cruncher.
But ... I truly despise how these "victims" of the halocaust have dumped this guilt trip upon me for the past 50 years.
Enough already!
I truly despise the huge influence which Jewish folks have within this world.
I truly despise the foreign policy of Isael.
And .... I'm no fan of Zundel.
Hey! Marcarc
I quite agree with your view of Bill C-36.
I've followed it pretty closely myself.
It is my view that all this "security" is because the economy is collapsing and the government is looking for any means of control.
They did the same thing in the 60's.
The governments of the world are runnin' scared.
Calm
Re: So..what happened to my "freedom of speech" th
Governments have always been afraid of their citizens and certainly ours is no different. I'm no number cruncher myself, if one person dies it's cause for alarm and sorrow. I don't feel that those of the hebrew faith hold any special power in the world, especially outside Israel and america, and in america Cheney and Bush are certainly not jewish. This is by no means a religous war. Every religion has its rich and its poor, its fundamentalists and zealots and its moderates.
I really feel no 'guilt' about the holocaust, and I don't really feel that its rammed down my throat. Just a cursory view of history will tell you that it was by no means just jews who were meant for extermination. Hitler often bragged that he will be known as the 'butcher of the swiss'. Gays, slovakians, gypsies, the handicapped were all meant for the dustbin of history.
There is also the theory that you can't call these other atrocities 'holocausts' because it may limit the one that took place during the war. That is also bunk, death is death and there have been plenty of holocausts since world war two.
Governments have always been afraid of their citizens and certainly ours is no different. I'm no number cruncher myself, if one person dies it's cause for alarm and sorrow. I don't feel that those of the hebrew faith hold any special power in the world, especially outside Israel and america, and in america Cheney and Bush are certainly not jewish. This is by no means a religous war. Every religion has its rich and its poor, its fundamentalists and zealots and its moderates.
I really feel no 'guilt' about the holocaust, and I don't really feel that its rammed down my throat. Just a cursory view of history will tell you that it was by no means just jews who were meant for extermination. Hitler often bragged that he will be known as the 'butcher of the swiss'. Gays, slovakians, gypsies, the handicapped were all meant for the dustbin of history.
There is also the theory that you can't call these other atrocities 'holocausts' because it may limit the one that took place during the war. That is also bunk, death is death and there have been plenty of holocausts since world war two.
Re: So..what happened to my "freedom of speech" th
Well Thank You Paranoid for clarifying Bill C-68 is really Bill C-36 to which Marcarc was referring too. I couldn't quite see Zundel being held for any "youth" crimes.
But as this is a conversation about Free Speech I think I would say a word or two.
Freedom only extends to the point of violating other people's rights. In Canada we truly do have Freedom of Speech in that context. Though our interpretation does not include the Freedom to violate the rights of others.
Promoting hatred against any group in an organized and determined manner is very likely to eventually cause a breach of the peace.
To have an opinion that 1.5 million Jewish people died compared to 6 million is in itself not the promotion of hate that would likely lead to the breach of the peace.
An ongoing campaign to inundate the community with such assertions in conjunction with allegations of a conspiracy on the part of a whole group would very likely cause individuals to resent and possibly act on said resentment.
And it is absurd to assume that the actions of a few are indeed the actions of the whole group. That is certainly not indicative a discerning mind.
Now if they made the claim that Jewish people are conspiring to misinform us as to the numbers killed by the Nazis, except John, Paul, Gil, Peter, Jesus.............
Until such a time as they have listed each and every single Jewish person who was not involved in such a conspiracy. They are in fact violating the rights of those Jewish people who are not promoting specific numbers if they do not include such a list as suggested above.
As to the Terrorism Laws(C-36) being applied we do know that Oklahoma City was committed by domestic terrorists and it is very possible that this character Zundel has had such contact with said individual groups that are truly deemed a threat to our state.
Which a speedy trial would determine if such was the case and we in Canada should not be happy that we allow the miscarriage of Justice(extended imprisonment) simply because the individual in question has a marginalized and quite frankly immature(imo) world view.
Well Thank You Paranoid for clarifying Bill C-68 is really Bill C-36 to which Marcarc was referring too. I couldn't quite see Zundel being held for any "youth" crimes.
But as this is a conversation about Free Speech I think I would say a word or two.
Freedom only extends to the point of violating other people's rights. In Canada we truly do have Freedom of Speech in that context. Though our interpretation does not include the Freedom to violate the rights of others.
Promoting hatred against any group in an organized and determined manner is very likely to eventually cause a breach of the peace.
To have an opinion that 1.5 million Jewish people died compared to 6 million is in itself not the promotion of hate that would likely lead to the breach of the peace.
An ongoing campaign to inundate the community with such assertions in conjunction with allegations of a conspiracy on the part of a whole group would very likely cause individuals to resent and possibly act on said resentment.
And it is absurd to assume that the actions of a few are indeed the actions of the whole group. That is certainly not indicative a discerning mind.
Now if they made the claim that Jewish people are conspiring to misinform us as to the numbers killed by the Nazis, except John, Paul, Gil, Peter, Jesus.............
Until such a time as they have listed each and every single Jewish person who was not involved in such a conspiracy. They are in fact violating the rights of those Jewish people who are not promoting specific numbers if they do not include such a list as suggested above.
As to the Terrorism Laws(C-36) being applied we do know that Oklahoma City was committed by domestic terrorists and it is very possible that this character Zundel has had such contact with said individual groups that are truly deemed a threat to our state.
Which a speedy trial would determine if such was the case and we in Canada should not be happy that we allow the miscarriage of Justice(extended imprisonment) simply because the individual in question has a marginalized and quite frankly immature(imo) world view.
Re: So..what happened to my "freedom of speech" th
Hey! Scott Malcolm
Marcarc Said (Elsewhere within this thread)
...This IS dicy stuff, there are other people being victimized by bill c-68...
And I got confused ....
It was actually Vanni Fucci which I was responding to and not Marcarc
Vanni Fucci wrote:
...I've done some research into Bill C-36...
Sorry for the confusion
Calm
Hey! Scott Malcolm
Marcarc Said (Elsewhere within this thread)
...This IS dicy stuff, there are other people being victimized by bill c-68...
And I got confused ....
It was actually Vanni Fucci which I was responding to and not Marcarc
Vanni Fucci wrote:
...I've done some research into Bill C-36...
Sorry for the confusion
Calm
RE: So..what happened to my "freedom of speech" th
when I posted this thread, I stated that it wasn't about what he said, it was about his RIGHT to say it, end of story.
I dont believe the good ol' US of G went to the moon..........
I also dont believe in that guy that s'posedly walked on water and healed the sick, et,c a while back....what was his name..... oh yes jc.
Afterall, there is a west indian "deity" that did all that, in fact he did exactly the same as JC is reportedly to have done, right down to dying on a cross between 2 thieves and being raised upto heaven.......1200 yrs before jc was born...... that's my right.
whose 'belief" is going to offend the most people....mine or zundels.......
its all about money and politics.
when I posted this thread, I stated that it wasn't about what he said, it was about his RIGHT to say it, end of story.
I dont believe the good ol' US of G went to the moon..........
I also dont believe in that guy that s'posedly walked on water and healed the sick, et,c a while back....what was his name..... oh yes jc.
Afterall, there is a west indian "deity" that did all that, in fact he did exactly the same as JC is reportedly to have done, right down to dying on a cross between 2 thieves and being raised upto heaven.......1200 yrs before jc was born...... that's my right.
whose 'belief" is going to offend the most people....mine or zundels.......
its all about money and politics.
Re: So..what happened to my "freedom of speech" th
JC? No Jean Chretien never healed the sick, that was Tommy Douglas. :lol:
Sorry...couldn't help myself.
JC? No Jean Chretien never healed the sick, that was Tommy Douglas. :lol:
Sorry...couldn't help myself.
Re: So..what happened to my "freedom of speech" th
Stretch
And you should have your right to your opinion.
Though when someone's speeches begin to infringe on the rights of others to be free from defamation, copyright infringement or hate propaganda likely to lead to the breach of the peace then it must be addressed.
Freedom is responsibility.
The less responsible one is the greater the need for social controls on their behavior.
Your speeches will not likely lead to violence. That is the difference.
Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws. Plato
Stretch
And you should have your right to your opinion.
Though when someone's speeches begin to infringe on the rights of others to be free from defamation, copyright infringement or hate propaganda likely to lead to the breach of the peace then it must be addressed.
Freedom is responsibility.
The less responsible one is the greater the need for social controls on their behavior.
Your speeches will not likely lead to violence. That is the difference.
Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws. Plato
RE: So..what happened to
Racism and bigotry always leads to violence, Stretch. Although Zundel is not overtly racist his attempts to minimize and deny the holocaust ever happened play directly to those that are.
Racism and bigotry always leads to violence, Stretch. Although Zundel is not overtly racist his attempts to minimize and deny the holocaust ever happened play directly to those that are.
Re: So..what happened to my "freedom of speech" th
Yes but you are not a court of law and are not in possesion of all the facts.
I'm saying that under Canada's hate laws that is the criteria. "Likely to lead to violence".
Holocuast denial does lead to repeat genocide. See Congo 1874 to Rwanda 1994.
By 1905 there had been over 10 million people killed yet we still refuse to recognize our western civilized role in that and hence we see it perpetuating.
I would even go as far as to say that the leaders of the last bout of genocide have found relative safety and security in the neighboring countries under the west's seemingly look the other way policy.
Yes but you are not a court of law and are not in possesion of all the facts.
I'm saying that under Canada's hate laws that is the criteria. "Likely to lead to violence".
Holocuast denial does lead to repeat genocide. See Congo 1874 to Rwanda 1994.
By 1905 there had been over 10 million people killed yet we still refuse to recognize our western civilized role in that and hence we see it perpetuating.
I would even go as far as to say that the leaders of the last bout of genocide have found relative safety and security in the neighboring countries under the west's seemingly look the other way policy.
RE: So..what happened to my "freedom of speech" th
one wonders.....if zundel IS a nutcase why they dont just let him go and be seen as one....but to try and stop him/silence him, makes me wonder just what is the truth.....I know what "history' tells us.... but then it's the victors who write the history....is it not?
one wonders.....if zundel IS a nutcase why they dont just let him go and be seen as one....but to try and stop him/silence him, makes me wonder just what is the truth.....I know what "history' tells us.... but then it's the victors who write the history....is it not?