So, do more guns equal more crime?

Locutus

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The data would seem to indicate the answer is "obviously not." (For more on this, see here.)

Naturally, these facts are steadfastly ignored by people who can't do basic arithmetic, like the constitutional law Professor David S. Cohen who wrote Monday at Rolling Stone that the second Amendment must be repealed because it is "a threat to liberty" and a "suicide pact."

Cohen's argument rests largely on the idea that gun violence it out of control and that guns are different now than they were in the 18th century. One cannot argue with the former part. But are guns significantly different today from what they were twenty years ago? Clearly, the answer to that is no, and given that homicide rates have plummeted since then, Cohen needs to explain why repealing the second Amendment is advisable when increases in gun ownership have coincided with declines in homicides.

Moreover, we must ask ourselves if the US was engaged in a "suicide pact" in the 1940s and 1950s when homicide rates where at historic lows, when the Second Amendment existed, and when gun control measures were very weak by modern standards.

But what about the murders at the Pulse club last weekend? Won't that cause homicide rates to go back up? Anyone familiar with math, of course, will know that in a country of 300 million people a mass shooting like this will have virtually no effect on overall homicide rates at all. But even if we pull out Florida specifically, homicide rates will remain well below what they were in the 1980s even if we include last weekend's murders. For example, in 2014, there were 1,149 homicides in Florida. That's out of a population of 20.2 million people, for a homicide rate of about 5.6 per 100,000. In 1984 — a fairly average year for homicide in Florida in those days — there were 1,264 homicides in a population of 11 million. That comes out to a homicide rate of 11.4 per 100,000. (The nation at the time had a homicide rate of about 7.9 per 100,000)

Now, I'm not saying that homicides are no big deal if the trend is downward. Nor am I saying there's anything wrong with wanting to drive the homicide rate even lower. However, panicky claims that the US has entered into a suicide pact or that the nation is on the precipice of violent implosion are simply not grounded in reality.

mo

FBI: US Homicide Rate At 51-Year Low | Zero Hedge

 

darkbeaver

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I would say more criminals equals more crime. Most definitely.

I think you're a clear thinking person. You can't have one without the other can you? The undefined would be crime I think, what are it's dimensions? And what is the metric, fathoms I prefere,

If I know you have a fifty caliber circa 1946 imounted at top of your driveway I am hardley likely to launch a frontal assault. Unless I have the meat to do the hammer. I hope that elevates the discussion.
 

taxslave

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I would say more criminals equals more crime. Most definitely.

Not to be picky but we need a clear definition of who or what constitutes a criminal. Just because pot is illegal in some places does that make someone smoking a joint a real criminal?
 

SLM

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Not to be picky but we need a clear definition of who or what constitutes a criminal. Just because pot is illegal in some places does that make someone smoking a joint a real criminal?

Technically speaking if one contravenes a law on the books, then one us, by definition, a criminal. Having said that though, I do believe, with exceptions for only the most heinous and violent in society, a crime is what you do, not who you are.
 

Curious Cdn

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You're comparing the United States to the United States. Try comparing those numbers with similar data from any other Western nation. The scales are so different that the data won't fit on the same graphs.

Stupid Yank tricks, yet again.
 

Ludlow

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You're comparing the United States to the United States. Try comparing those numbers with similar data from any other Western nation. The scales are so different that the data won't fit on the same graphs.

Stupid Yank tricks, yet again.
I was just looking at those charts relative to gun crimes, knife crimes etc. As far as your 'yank' sentiment, stick it punk.
 

JLM

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Technically speaking if one contravenes a law on the books, then one us, by definition, a criminal. Having said that though, I do believe, with exceptions for only the most heinous and violent in society, a crime is what you do, not who you are.


One good reason why I hate labels (those two A$$holes in Hamilton, excepted) Too often a person who could be labelled a dozen different ways is often stuck with the worst one that describes him/her.

We are a crime ridden society here in the states. For several various reasons those of which all you experts can elaborate on.


From what I've seen personally having visited the U.S. several dozen times, that sentiment is light years from my experience. Pretty much w/o exception, I've found Americans to be a kind and generous people. It's the sh*t that gets reported, the good acts we don't hear about!

You're comparing the United States to the United States. Try comparing those numbers with similar data from any other Western nation. The scales are so different that the data won't fit on the same graphs.

Stupid Yank tricks, yet again.


Yeah, an hour of strenuous exercise in the fresh air might improve your addled brain! :) :)
 

Colpy

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You're comparing the United States to the United States. Try comparing those numbers with similar data from any other Western nation. The scales are so different that the data won't fit on the same graphs.

Stupid Yank tricks, yet again.

Moron:

Facts:

Crimes per capita. The United States is number 22, well below the average of rich western nations.

Countries Compared by Crime > Total crimes per 1000. International Statistics at NationMaster.com

Homicides per capita, the USA is number 108, and their rate of 3.9 per 100,000 is much less than the average 6.2 per 100,000

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Gun ownership per capita. Nobody even comes close to the USA at 112 per 100 people. Number one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

Game, set, match.

Oh, did I mention that you're a moron?

And this



Father and daughter in Switzerland.....number 4 in gun ownership in the world, with one of the lowest murder rates on earth. BTW, those aren't your Grandpa's .32 Special.

I actually think they are on the bus, going to the range.
 
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Tecumsehsbones

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And in case you're wondering, those aren't "semi-automatic assault weapons." They're fully automatic assault weapons.

Not that you'd know the difference.
 

Colpy

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And in case you're wondering, those aren't "semi-automatic assault weapons." They're fully automatic assault weapons.

Not that you'd know the difference.

Not to argue, but I actually doubt they are full auto. When a Swiss completes his military service, he may keep his service rifle, but a new sear is dropped in to make it semi-auto only. And women do not do national service. And full autos are banned from private ownership.

I believe. From memory, which may be faulty.