So, 'bout that Pro Life thing...

Serryah

Senate Member
Dec 3, 2008
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Mostly because pro-life is a flat lie, covering for anti-abortion.

True but since all this debate has happened, I've come to think of while everyone is pro-abortion (in certain circumstances) overall, this "pro-life" BS is a cover for being fanatical anti-mother/women/child. Because "pro-life" doesn't always mean pro-life, as exampled here.

It's also why I'm dropping the 'anti-abortion' thing for those who are 'against' it from now on.

In this instance, Alabama, a "pro-life" state, has no issues leaving a mother in medical complications while pregnant, yet they freak out and have some of the worst 'laws' in the nation for abortions all to 'protect the behbeh!'

Which of course invalidates/questions the so called "pro-life" stance.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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True but since all this debate has happened, I've come to think of while everyone is pro-abortion (in certain circumstances) overall, this "pro-life" BS is a cover for being fanatical anti-mother/women/child. Because "pro-life" doesn't always mean pro-life, as exampled here.

It's also why I'm dropping the 'anti-abortion' thing for those who are 'against' it from now on.

In this instance, Alabama, a "pro-life" state, has no issues leaving a mother in medical complications while pregnant, yet they freak out and have some of the worst 'laws' in the nation for abortions all to 'protect the behbeh!'

Which of course invalidates/questions the so called "pro-life" stance.
All fine. Pick your terms. I choose "anti-abortion" and "pro-choice" as the most specifically accurate terms that say exactly what they mean and don't say too much.
 
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The_Foxer

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All fine. Pick your terms. I choose "anti-abortion" and "pro-choice" as the most specifically accurate terms that say exactly what they mean and don't say too much.
I would agree. The term 'pro life" would suggest that the other side is "anti life' some how and that's not accurate, and pro-abortion would suggest those who aren't against abortion actually promote it, where they may not at all they just think people should have the right to decide that themselves.
 

Jinentonix

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Set aside the pistol and smoking weed...

"The woman incarcerated in Alabama, 23-year-old Ashley Banks, said she was incarcerated at around six weeks into her pregnancy, according to a Wednesday report by AL.com. After six weeks of being jailed, she started to bleed and continued to do so for another five weeks, AL.com reported. She was forced to sleep on the floor due to overcrowding, she said, even after being diagnosed with a condition that heightened her risk of miscarriage. "

Guess it's only Pro Life in certain circumstances... (which we knew, truth be told)
Religious beliefs can make peoples' thinking pretty fucked. I don't normally do this but, my sister is my half-sister. Her mother died giving birth to her second child. Early on in the pregnancy her doctor strongly recommended an abortion because the chances of either her or they baby surviving were slim to none.
Being a devout Catholic she refused even knowing her life was at serious risk. Abortion was a sin, goddamit.
And if I'm not mistaken, there's a fair bit of religious fundamentalism in Alabama.
Doesn't excuse that shit though.

On the other hand, if she doesn't care about the health of her child (ie; smoking weed while pregnant) why should anyone else? Having said that, there should at least have been some concern for her health.
 

Serryah

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Religious beliefs can make peoples' thinking pretty fucked. I don't normally do this but, my sister is my half-sister. Her mother died giving birth to her second child. Early on in the pregnancy her doctor strongly recommended an abortion because the chances of either her or they baby surviving were slim to none.
Being a devout Catholic she refused even knowing her life was at serious risk. Abortion was a sin, goddamit.
And if I'm not mistaken, there's a fair bit of religious fundamentalism in Alabama.
Doesn't excuse that shit though.

On the other hand, if she doesn't care about the health of her child (ie; smoking weed while pregnant) why should anyone else? Having said that, there should at least have been some concern for her health.
Since we're not told *when* she smoked the weed - either before she found out, or after - only that she did on the DAY she found out, it can't be said she 'doesn't care about the health of her child'.

And it doesn't say why she was smoking the weed, either. Recreational or was it for another reason? Considering other claims listed in the article people were held in jail while pregnant, even if it was a medical reason would get a woman put in jail.
 

IdRatherBeSkiing

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Since we're not told *when* she smoked the weed - either before she found out, or after - only that she did on the DAY she found out, it can't be said she 'doesn't care about the health of her child'.

And it doesn't say why she was smoking the weed, either. Recreational or was it for another reason? Considering other claims listed in the article people were held in jail while pregnant, even if it was a medical reason would get a woman put in jail.
If it was not that serious, and the prisons were overcrowded, it does beg the question how she remained in jail. She should have been out on bail or likely have gotten a light or no jail time sentence if it was purely recreational. She likely wouldn't have even been charged. So I have to assume it's either more serious drugs or she was trafficking. Her actual charges and offense seem missing from this article.

There is no excuse for her treatment once she became a 'guest' of the state.
 

Serryah

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If it was not that serious, and the prisons were overcrowded, it does beg the question how she remained in jail. She should have been out on bail or likely have gotten a light or no jail time sentence if it was purely recreational. She likely wouldn't have even been charged. So I have to assume it's either more serious drugs or she was trafficking. Her actual charges and offense seem missing from this article.

There is no excuse for her treatment once she became a 'guest' of the state.

So according to the AL article (linked in the Vice one) https://www.al.com/news/2022/09/pre...ooOEI7bGTBfEE45u2NONu7nmRc0nqvwfoHm4cuqR6fUF8

"Police arrested Ashley Banks on May 25 with a small amount of marijuana and a pistol without a permit to carry.


Under normal circumstances, the 23-year-old from Gadsden would have been able to post bond and leave jail until her criminal trial. But Banks admitted to smoking pot on the same day she found out she was pregnant – two days before her arrest. In Etowah County, that meant she couldn’t leave jail unless she entered drug rehab, leaving her in limbo for three months."


So because she admitted to smoking weed, she had to be kept for rehab. Except...


" Two times, specialists evaluated her for drug addiction and found she didn’t qualify for free addiction services offered through the state. Her lawyers said investigators then urged Banks to say she had a drug addiction she did not have to bond out.

"Ms. Banks is currently incarcerated indefinitely because the State will not accept her $10,000.00 cash bail and she does not qualify for a residential drug treatment,” her petition said.



Since her bond conditions required rehab, and since rehab wouldn’t take her, she continued sleeping on a jailhouse floor until Aug. 25, when an Etowah County judge released her to community corrections.



Chris Retan, executive director of Aletheia House, a substance abuse treatment provider, said they often have beds available for pregnant women and mothers. But he said judges should not order women into treatment if they do not have a substance use disorder.



“I would say that the appropriate thing for them to do is to go to drug treatment program that matches their level of need,” Retan said. “Residential treatment is for people with a serious disorder.”"

So yeah, the entire situation was BS.
 

IdRatherBeSkiing

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So she got caught in the bureaucracy. One would think if they are keeping her for rehab, she would automatically qualify for rehab. But the stupidity of bureaucracy never ceases to amaze me,
 

Serryah

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So she got caught in the bureaucracy. One would think if they are keeping her for rehab, she would automatically qualify for rehab. But the stupidity of bureaucracy never ceases to amaze me,

Bureaucracy, or just BS laws that aren't actually made to work with pregnant women who don't fit the "Definition" of certain issues (like addiction).
 
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Serryah

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This has nothing to do with 'pro-fetus people' and everything to do with fucked up government bureaucracy.

In a way it does though.

Alabama is very "Pro Life" apparently, if you look at the abortion laws on their books.

Yet they're good with letting pregnant women suffer in jail for reasons they don't need to be in jail, and against advice of professionals.

Sure it's bureaucracy, but it's also ignorance about the actualities of people's lives.
 
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IdRatherBeSkiing

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In a way it does though.

Alabama is very "Pro Life" apparently, if you look at the abortion laws on their books.

Yet they're good with letting pregnant women suffer in jail for reasons they don't need to be in jail, and against advice of professionals.

Sure it's bureaucracy, but it's also ignorance about the actualities of people's lives.
I don't see that. I think applying that is a stretch. Looking at everything though the abortion lens distorts the view.
 

IdRatherBeSkiing

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Bureaucracy, or just BS laws that aren't actually made to work with pregnant women who don't fit the "Definition" of certain issues (like addiction).
This is a classic case of left hand vs right hand where 2 government programs do not work together even when they should.
 

Serryah

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Dec 3, 2008
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I don't see that. I think applying that is a stretch. Looking at everything though the abortion lens distorts the view.

Eh, that's fine you don't.

Since the whole Roe V. Wade stuff, as I said, everyone unless a fanatic is really okay with abortion, rather it's just the circumstances of it that there's disagreement and issues.

But the point of this was Alabama with its extreme laws about that, is all about "Pro Life"; that's the reason for the anti-abortion stuff. But if they're that Pro-Life, why would they let a pregnant woman with medical complications suffer for weeks without care? They're "Pro Life" when it comes to abortion, but not when it comes to a pregnant woman in jail? It's not really a stretch at all.
 

petros

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The same way you thought Drs in Texas forced a woman to carry a miscarriage for 10 days when in reality she wasnt forced into anything.