Should terrorists and their supporters lose their Canadian citizenship?

[Jinentonix]

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As past experience shows, there are several factors that are essential for a successful peacekeeping operation. It must:

• Be guided by the principles of consent, impartiality and the non-use of force except in self-defense and defense of the mandate;
• Be perceived as legitimate and credible, particularly in the eyes of the local population;
• Promote national and local ownership of the peace process in the host country.

Other important factors that help drive success include:

• Genuine commitment to a political process by the parties in working towards peace (there must be a peace to keep);
• Clear, credible and achievable mandates, with matching personnel, logistic and financial resources;
• Unity of purpose within the Security Council, with active support to UN operations in the field;
• Host country commitment to unhindered UN operations and freedom of movement;
• Supportive engagement by neighbouring countries and regional actors;
• An integrated UN approach, effective coordination with other actors on the ground and good communication with host country authorities and population;
• The utmost sensitivity towards the local population and upholding the highest standards of professionalism and good conduct (peacekeepers must avoid becoming part of the problem).
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  Our successes

  We have, built up an impressive record of peacekeeping achievements over more than 70 years of our existence, including winning the Nobel Peace Prize. Since 1948, the UN has helped end conflicts and foster reconciliation by conducting successful peacekeeping operations in dozens of countries...

  peacekeeping.un.org

Buttttt didn't the UN give Israel state recognition and were allegedly going to do the same for Palestine?

 

[Serryah]

Oh Serryah. I know exactly what the UN was intended to be, but it took mere weeks to become a total goat fuck.

Then why claim it was something it never was?

But I'm talking about the General Assembly. Countries like China chairing the Human Rights Committee or Saudi Arabia chairing the Women's Rights Committee. Or Robert Mugabe being the UN's Ambassador of Tourism. Or how China is a signatory of UNCLOS despite not being on the GA yet the UN continually looks the other way when it comes to the South China Sea, the territorial waters of other poor countries and internationally declared protected areas. Why bother having treaties and agreements and shit if you're only going to selectively enforce them?

Fully agree with you here.

Where's the UN when it comes to the Houthis attacking merchant shipping in the Red Sea? That's a global issue. At least do something about something real instead of chasing the AGW boogey man like they're Scooby fucking Doo or something.

Agree here too.

Yeah sure, the UN will send Peacekeepers into a full-fledged war zone (former Yugoslavia to be exact, although they were prevented from stopping any ethnic cleansing going on) but won't do jack-shit about merchant shipping being attacked in the Red Sea.

Again, agree.

But then the UN isn't the organization it was supposed to be anymore, and hasn't been for a while (as you said, not long after it was formed).

Basically, it's a place for member nations to send people who represent them to make 'good appearances', get in contact with like-minded nations, pretend to give a damn about the rest of the world and sometimes do try to do the right thing (and sometimes succeeds).

But you didn't answer the question: what did you mean by non-national?

 

[Serryah]

Buttttt didn't the UN give Israel state recognition and were allegedly going to do the same for Palestine?

Palestine has been a 'non-member' since 2012, and recognized by 75% since this year.

Sadly too late to matter.

 

[Ron in Regina]

In order to have this debate, the below questions first have to be answered:

What’s a “Terrorist” & who gets to define who is a “Terrorist” or what’s a “Terrorist” organization, etc…?

If it is each individual nation, fine. Then each individual nation can work that definition into their immigration and naturalization legislation and govern themselves accordingly.

If it’s something else, like the UN, or some other non-national entity, then that has to be factored in.

If the Government of Canada recognizes certain factions as a terrorist group.. list attached below

List of organizations designated as terrorist by Canada - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

...and as a Canadian citizen you join them and act against Canadians in a terrorist plot or fight against Canada's military.. should you still retain your citizenship??

If they were granted their citizenship by deception or fraud, it should be revoked.

On October 7, Hamas, a designated Palestinian terrorist group, unleashed unspeakable violence on Israel, leaving 1,200 Israelis dead.

Last week, as the world marked the “International Day of Remembrance of and Tribute to Victims of Terrorism,” the UN failed to acknowledge the Israeli victims of the October 7, 2023 massacre by Hamas, revealing a troubling pattern of denial and distortion that is fuelling antisemitism on a global scale.

By omitting the terror attack that took place on October 7, the UN was further entrenching the dangerous narrative that Jewish lives are expendable. Today, this process of dehumanization persists, with “Jews” now being referred to as “Zionists.”

We must hold institutions like the UN accountable for the narratives they choose to tell and the truths they choose to omit. Only by confronting and correcting these omissions can we combat the rising tide of antisemitism and ensure that the memories of all victims of terrorism are honoured. By failing to recognize the Jewish victims of terrorism, the UN is not just ignoring history — it is distorting it.

 

[Serryah]

On October 7, Hamas, a designated Palestinian terrorist group, unleashed unspeakable violence on Israel, leaving 1,200 Israelis dead.

Last week, as the world marked the “International Day of Remembrance of and Tribute to Victims of Terrorism,” the UN failed to acknowledge the Israeli victims of the October 7, 2023 massacre by Hamas, revealing a troubling pattern of denial and distortion that is fuelling antisemitism on a global scale.

By omitting the terror attack that took place on October 7, the UN was further entrenching the dangerous narrative that Jewish lives are expendable. Today, this process of dehumanization persists, with “Jews” now being referred to as “Zionists.”

We must hold institutions like the UN accountable for the narratives they choose to tell and the truths they choose to omit. Only by confronting and correcting these omissions can we combat the rising tide of antisemitism and ensure that the memories of all victims of terrorism are honoured. By failing to recognize the Jewish victims of terrorism, the UN is not just ignoring history — it is distorting it.

Agreed. The UN failing to say ANYTHING is absolutely disgusting.

They should have declared both Hamas AND Israel (it's current Government, for clarification to the easily triggered) "Terrorist organizations" on that day and denounced both.

 

[pgs]

Agreed. The UN failing to say ANYTHING is absolutely disgusting.

They should have declared both Hamas AND Israel (it's current Government, for clarification to the easily triggered) "Terrorist organizations" on that day and denounced both.

You are completely bonkers . But keep up the good work .

 

[Ron in Regina]

Agreed. The UN failing to say ANYTHING is absolutely disgusting.

They should have declared both Hamas AND Israel (it's current Government, for clarification to the easily triggered) "Terrorist organizations" on that day and denounced both.

Is it the UN’s prerogative to declare anyone or anything a terrorist organization (?) Or is that outside It’s Bally Wick? I believe, & I could be wrong, but it’s up to each nation state to declare what it sees as terrorist organizations or not.

It (the UN) could have recognized victims on both sides of the conflict on International Day of Remembrance of and Tribute to Victims of Terrorism, but chose not to.

The UN does have a definition of “terrorism” & defines it as such:
... criminal acts, including against civilians, committed with intent to cause death or serious bodily injury, or taking of hostages, with the purpose to provoke a state of terror in the general public or in a group of persons or particular persons, intimidate a population or compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act, which constitute offences within the scope of and as defined in the international conventions and protocols relating to terrorism, are under no circumstances justifiable by considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or other similar nature, and calls upon all States to prevent such acts and, if not prevented, to ensure that such acts are punished by penalties consistent with their grave nature.

Counter-Terrorism Module 4 Key Issues: Defining Terrorism

Doha Declaration - Education for Justice (UNODC)

www.unodc.org

United Nations Charter (full text) | United Nations

www.un.org

Countering Terrorism | United Nations

Each year, thousands of innocent lives are shattered by terrorist violence driven by violent extremism. To counter this threat, the international community must strengthen cooperation in preventing and combating terrorism.

www.un.org

 

[Taxslave2]

By non-national you mean... what exactly?

I also think you don't get what the UN is - supposed to anyway - be for. It was never meant to be some sort of Governing body over nations/the world.

What the UN is supposed to be, and what it currently is, are two very different things. If the UN can't make laws, why are we stuck with UNDRIP? And how did a sizable chunk of my island get declares a UN Biosphere?

 

[Serryah]

What the UN is supposed to be, and what it currently is, are two very different things.

That's true.

If the UN can't make laws, why are we stuck with UNDRIP?

Do you know what 'binding' and 'unbinding' means?

The UN can suggest things all they want, but it's not enforced by them really. Rather all the UN can do if someone disagrees is give finger waggles, stern objections and so on.

We have UNDRIP - sort of - but other nations do not cause the Canadian Government ratified it in 2021. Funny enough, the resolution was adopted in 2027. If you do the Maths, that's 14 years it took for Canada to say "okay we agree with this".

And how did a sizable chunk of my island get declares a UN Biosphere?

You own a personal Island? Well regardless, if the Government - if you're not the Government in control of it - can take suggestions that the UN may make and agree or disagree with it. Kind'a like recognitions of statehood to countries, human rights of all kinds, world heritage sites, UNESCO sites, etc. So that's probably what happened; it was suggested and whoever in charge said "Okay."

Same as UNDRIP.

I know wanting to see places that are protected or people's rights protected is a huge ask from so many people, especially for assholes who don't give a shit about anything but themselves, but there are others on this rock who do think such things are important enough to be a thing.

 

[Taxslave2]

Canadian Government ratified it in 2021. Funny enough, the resolution was adopted in 2027.

Interesting math.

people's rights protected

UNDRIP didn'r protect my rights. Actually, it made anyone without a status card a second class citizen.

 

[Serryah]

Interesting math.

UNDRIP didn'r protect my rights. Actually, it made anyone without a status card a second class citizen.

Oh really? How are you a 'second class citizen' now cause of UNDRIP?

UNDRIP doesn't really protect any rights, it *recognizes* rights. It's up to individual nations to 'protect' those rights.

Keep showing us how you don't get how the UN works though.

 

[Taxslave2]

UNDRIP doesn't really protect any rights, it *recognizes* rights. It's up to individual nations to 'protect' those rights.

UNDRIP recognizes the rights of people with the approved skin colour. Nothing more. Either it is not being applied the same where you live as here, or you are not paying attention to what is going on around you. Haida Gwi recently had a vote on whether the islands should be controlled by the natives and not the BC government. The catch is that non native residents, about half the population, and 90ish % of the private land owners were not permitted to vote on the matter.

 

[Serryah]

UNDRIP recognizes the rights of people with the approved skin colour. Nothing more.

Wow, how racist of you.

Either it is not being applied the same where you live as here, or you are not paying attention to what is going on around you.

Or it's not how you think it is.

Haida Gwi recently had a vote on whether the islands should be controlled by the natives and not the BC government.

Considering it was their lands before people came to settle, sure I can get that.

The catch is that non native residents, about half the population, and 90ish % of the private land owners were not permitted to vote on the matter.

Here's where you freak out.

I don't agree with that.

Regardless of their control before current Governments, today is not then, the world isn't the old world they had before. People live there now and have every right to ALSO have a say in what happens to the land as much as the Haida.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

The UN, like everything else in existence, exists to OPPRESS poor, poor, abused White conservatives.

 

[pgs]

The UN, like everything else in existence, exists to OPPRESS poor, poor, abused White conservatives.

The UN exists solely to suck money and privilege out of U.S. taxpayers . How much are those lovely buildings in New York worth , and who is paying to staff them ?

 

[Jinentonix]

Is it the UN’s prerogative to declare anyone or anything a terrorist organization (?) Or is that outside It’s Bally Wick? I believe, & I could be wrong, but it’s up to each nation state to declare what it sees as terrorist organizations or not.

It (the UN) could have recognized victims on both sides of the conflict on International Day of Remembrance of and Tribute to Victims of Terrorism, but chose not to.

The UN does have a definition of “terrorism” & defines it as such:
... criminal acts, including against civilians, committed with intent to cause death or serious bodily injury, or taking of hostages, with the purpose to provoke a state of terror in the general public or in a group of persons or particular persons, intimidate a population or compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act, which constitute offences within the scope of and as defined in the international conventions and protocols relating to terrorism, are under no circumstances justifiable by considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or other similar nature, and calls upon all States to prevent such acts and, if not prevented, to ensure that such acts are punished by penalties consistent with their grave nature.

Counter-Terrorism Module 4 Key Issues: Defining Terrorism

Doha Declaration - Education for Justice (UNODC)

www.unodc.org

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United Nations Charter (full text) | United Nations

www.un.org

Ah. That's what the Putinazis are whining about. They can't figure out why the UNSC isn't condemning Ukraine's attack into Kursk because they're stupid and clearly don't understand how war works. They also don't understand the UN Charter. In fact Ukraine is a founding member of and one of the first signatories to the UN, so Russia attacked another member of the United Nations first. Of course the UNSC can't take any measures necessary to maintain international peace and security because Russia will just veto it.

Once again, the UN is a useless, pathetic joke.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Is it the UN’s prerogative to declare anyone or anything a terrorist organization (?) Or is that outside It’s Bally Wick? I believe, & I could be wrong, but it’s up to each nation state to declare what it sees as terrorist organizations or not.

Yes, it is. Just as it's the prerogative of the Boy Scouts, the Kenosha Book Club, and Google.

And means just as much.

Let us say a non-state person or organization declares something a terrorist organization? What's that entity going to do about it?

 

[pgs]

Ah. That's what the Putinazis are whining about. They can't figure out why the UNSC isn't condemning Ukraine's attack into Kursk because they're stupid and clearly don't understand how war works. They also don't understand the UN Charter. In fact Ukraine is a founding member of and one of the first signatories to the UN, so Russia attacked another member of the United Nations first. Of course the UNSC can't take any measures necessary to maintain international peace and security because Russia will just veto it.

Once again, the UN is a useless, pathetic joke.

I am curious how Ukraine became a founding member of the U.N. When they were part of the USSR ?

 

[Taxslave2]

Regardless of their control before current Governments, today is not then, the world isn't the old world they had before. People live there now and have every right to ALSO have a say in what happens to the land as much as the Haida.

That is the only part you got right. As far as I know this is the first race based vote Canada has had since the late 50s.

 

[Jinentonix]

I am curious how Ukraine became a founding member of the U.N. When they were part of the USSR ?

Try using the internet for more than forums and gaming. It's amazing what you can learn.