Sentenced to 12 years in slave concentration camp

[L Gilbert]

The fact that you exist proves the above wrong.

Obviously not.

Typical response from one that has no footing in logic... Demand that others prove a negative. As far as the demand for evidence that refutes any notion that people aren't kidnapped or trafficked in North Korea - get off your high horse. There is not one single nation on the planet where this does not occur... You seem to think that it only happens in North Korea and what's more, that the gvt is behind it.

Again, you wouldn't know logic if it sat on your face and shat. It was a rhetorical question. It seems that there are entire countries that think the gov't is behind the trafficking. So jam my high horse alongside your wee, little brain cell.
Now you've made a claim that all countries traffic in humans. Prove it, big mouth.

Wrong again... I have a proxy statement that says otherwise.... (It's true!)

BS

... So.. Let's see... Every journalist that ever printed a critical word of NK, every political leader that ever was critical (which is damn near all of 'em) and especially every narrow-minded yokel like yourself is a potential target.

They are if they're near the border. Why is that so tough to comprehend for you. Oh, that's right, I forgot. You are mentally challenged, to put it in the PC terms.

Hmmmm, in all the years that people have spoken out against the NK gvt, in the global media no less, have been kidnapped?

Speakee English?

How come I never got the memo?!

You don't get much of anything.

You can read?

Only English.

Next time, try reading the articles before you forward them as proof-positive to support your argument....

Why? Proof positive would be lost on you anyway.

Read this:

But South Korean activist Kim Sang-hun told BBC News Online that the crossing was very risky.

"It's heavily guarded on both sides," he said.

- BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Escaping North Korea
You really think that two Americans would get into NK that easily? And you call me a fool. lmao

All films, all books, all newspapers and all radio and television broadcasts are about either the Father or the Son. Everybody is a soldier. Everybody is an informer. Everybody is a unit. Everything is propaganda.

- Worst of the Worst

This is not all. In this "classless" communist society, the regime has divided North Koreans into a rigid hierarchy of three classes, and fifty-one subdivisions, depending on a person's status within the communist North Korean Workers Party and the military, their perceived faithfulness to communism, and family backgrounds. In other words, Kim uses the very food people need to live as a tool to reward and punish his subject slaves. Thus, vast numbers of people whose loyalties are questioned or may be deemed useless to the regime do not receive enough food to live long. The worst off are those people and families incarcerated in Kim's concentration or forced labor camps. They receive the lowest food allowance of all, in spite of their being forced to work from 5 am to 8 pm.

- http://orthodoxytoday.org/articles4/RummelKorea.php

You really think that the NK gov't doesn't have an idea of what goes on inside the country? That the State doesn't have total control?

 

[Kreskin]

I noticed that you've shied away from answering earth_as_one's suggestion that you take a look at the penal systems all throughout the world.

There is a reason why you won't and we all know why.

This thread isn't about the penal system in Egypt or Israel. If you're so interested why don't you start one instead of being a dingbat troll in this one.

 

[L Gilbert]

This thread isn't about the penal system in Egypt or Israel. If you're so interested why don't you start one instead of being a dingbat troll in this one.

And provide evidence for you views. It'd make you more credible.

 

[earth_as_one]

This thread is about two women charged and convicted of entering NK illegally and the remote possibility that they might be treated as poorly as NK citizens in NK's penal system. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of people who claim they are shocked by NK's barbaric penal system yet say nothing or support other nations with far worse penal systems...

Regarding where these wome were when they were abducted, the border may be guarded with fences and razor wire, but tens of thousands of NK's escape NK each year anyway. Its probably just as easy to get in to NK as get out of NNK. Another likely possibility is that NK found out these women were doing a story on human trafficing in NK, set up trap and they walked into it. The timing of these arrests seems convenient...

 

[L Gilbert]

This thread is about two women charged and convicted of entering NK illegally and the remote possibility that they might be treated as poorly as NK citizens in NK's penal system. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of people who claim they are shocked by NK's barbaric penal system yet say nothing or support other nations with far worse penal systems...

What shock? Disgust is a more appropriate word. And I can imagine when those people you are whining about find out about more despicable atrocities they are just as likely to be disgusted as they are by this. People don't switch views like lights.

Regarding where these wome were when they were abducted, the border may be guarded with fences and razor wire, but tens of thousands of NK's escape NK each year anyway.

Evidence? Hearsay? Opinion?

Its probably just as easy to get in to NK as get out of NNK.

I have no doubt about that.

Another likely possibility is that NK found out these women were doing a story on human trafficing in NK, set up trap and they walked into it. The timing of these arrests seems convenient...

That sounds reasonable. A lot more reasonable than any opinion the rum bottle's offered so far.

 

[captain morgan]

Obviously not.

Again, you wouldn't know logic if it sat on your face and shat. It was a rhetorical question. It seems that there are entire countries that think the gov't is behind the trafficking. So jam my high horse alongside your wee, little brain cell.
Now you've made a claim that all countries traffic in humans. Prove it, big mouth.

I read through your drivel.... It seems that you are living proof that a village is missing its idiot.

Just a thought for you (take an aspirin in advance - I assume that 'thinking' for you involves massive migraines): Read the posts you've contributed... To date, your arguments (and i use that word loosely) have evolved to the point that you have refuted your statements. That, coupled with the infantile response of "prove they were in NK" is entirely useless.

It is entirely expected that your most compelling debating/discussion technique is based solely on innuendo and insults... It's all you have.

 

[captain morgan]

This thread isn't about the penal system in Egypt or Israel. If you're so interested why don't you start one instead of being a dingbat troll in this one.

You'll begin to develop an understanding of these issues when you take the massive leap into reality by understanding that all these things are relative.

Your problem with this entire issue is that you've made-up your mind about it long before you looked at any facts. This is evident in how you titled the thread and deliberately included the descriptors of "Sentenced to 12 years in slave concentration camp"... That's what you want to believe and therefore have grossly embellished your posts to support this notion (with things like rape and torture for example).

You don't know this for fact and while it may regrettably occur - reality is that it's no different than any other penal system (hence why you are asked about other nations)... And for the record, just 'cause it occurs elsewhere, it doesn't excuse it in NK - assuming it happens - but it offers that important degree of relativity.

You don't like my posts because I'm calling you out on your skewed comments and that doesn't jibe with your pre-conceived notions.

 

[earth_as_one]

LG, I read about NK defectors in this National Geographic article:

...Some 50,000 North Koreans, and possibly many more, are hiding in China, most in cities and villages along the remote 900-mile-long border between the two countries. Uncounted others have come for a few months and then slipped back to North Korea with food and money. Yet many stay on, unable or unwilling to return to their cruel homeland. They are left with two desperate choices: Keep hiding—often as prisoners of exploitative employers—or embark on the Asian underground railroad, a perilous journey by foot, vehicle, and train across China and Southeast Asia.

Confronted with an obstacle course of checkpoints, informants, and treacherous terrain, numerous defec­tors have been caught. But aided by a small band of humanitarians and by smugglers charging $3,000 and up, some 15,000 have reached safe haven, most often in South Korea. There, traumatized and barely skilled, they face the most formidable challenge of all: starting over....

Escaping North Korea — National Geographic Magazine

So it sounds like its easy to sneak in or out of NK, especially for people with money. That's why I'm not so certain about whether these women were abducted. More likely they tried to bribe their way in with the intent of getting the big story and someone double crossed them.

Also, one of the journalist's sister made a name for herself by sneaking into North Korea under false pretenses and filming conditions in NK.

Lisa Ling:

I have traveled to many places on many continents, but I never felt my personal freedom limited as much as it was during our time in North Korea. North Korea is usually off-limits to foreigners—especially to Americans.

In order to film the work of Dr. Ruit, a Nepalese eye surgeon, the only way that I could enter the secretive state was to go undercover posing as part of his medical team. Ruit’s goal is to heal patients in poor countries who have gone blind from cataracts. My cameraman and I hoped that we would also get glimpses of real life in North Korea. It turned out to be one of the hardest assignments I had. The government sent us six (!) minders who accompanied us all the way from Katmandu, Nepal to North Korea and back. In Pyongyang they took away our passports and cell phones. There wasn’t a moment when we could wander off and walk around unobserved. I had to stay within eyesight of the hotel, so I jogged in circles around the compound. This is what prison must feel like....

National Geographic Channel - Lisa Ling Archives

Lisa Ling's Personal Life and Family

...Her younger sister, Laura Ling, also a journalist, is managing editor of Vanguard at Current TV. In March 2009 Laura and her colleague Euna Lee were detained by North Korea for illegal entry into the country. They had been attempting to film refugees along the border with China.[7] In June, they were sentenced to 12 years in a labor prison for illegal entry into North Korea, and unspecified hostile acts.[8]...

Lisa Ling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Still think she was abducted LG or do you think its more likely she was caught?

 

[Kreskin]

You'll begin to develop an understanding of these issues when you take the massive leap into reality by understanding that all these things are relative.

Your problem with this entire issue is that you've made-up your mind about it long before you looked at any facts. This is evident in how you titled the thread and deliberately included the descriptors of "Sentenced to 12 years in slave concentration camp"... That's what you want to believe and therefore have grossly embellished your posts to support this notion (with things like rape and torture for example).

You don't know this for fact and while it may regrettably occur - reality is that it's no different than any other penal system (hence why you are asked about other nations)... And for the record, just 'cause it occurs elsewhere, it doesn't excuse it in NK - assuming it happens - but it offers that important degree of relativity.

You don't like my posts because I'm calling you out on your skewed comments and that doesn't jibe with your pre-conceived notions.

I have not grossly embellished anything. Survivors have written about rape. What do you think occurs in remote areas where people are in complete submission by men who are trained to brutalize? It's pretty common sense.

But now you say that what I said might "regrettably occur". So now you're saying I'm right but there are plenty of bad penal systems. Well I wasn't writing a post about the world's penal systems. I was writing about one penal system. Please feel free start your own thread to first write about all of them before proving an opinion on any.

 

[earth_as_one]

K,
If women were being raped in NK prisons, Amnesty International would have mentioned it in their report. They didn't, although they do describe harsh conditions:

AI 2009 report

Prisoners in camps and detention centres were forced to undertake physically demanding work which included mountain logging and stone quarrying, often for 10 hours or more per day, with no rest days. Guards beat prisoners suspected of lying, not working fast enough or for forgetting the words to patriotic songs. Forms of punishment included forced exercise, sitting without moving for prolonged periods of time and humiliating public criticism.
Prisoners fell ill or died in custody, or soon after release, due to the combination of forced hard labour, inadequate food, beatings, lack of medical care and unhygienic living conditions...

North Korea | Amnesty International Report 2009

If AI had credible proof people were being raped in NK's prisons, they would have mentioned it.

Balls in your court, K. Where is your evidence of rape?

 

[captain morgan]

I have not grossly embellished anything. Survivors have written about rape. What do you think occurs in remote areas where people are in complete submission by men who are trained to brutalize? It's pretty common sense.

I'm afraid that you have.... Read the title that you gave to this thread and that will be the first instance: Slave Concentration Camp. Going through a little further and it evolves into torture and rape.

Does this happen?.. Personally, I don't know... And neither do you.

The comment about men that are "trained to brutalize".. You are referring to the prison guards I assume. Again, you don't know this to be fact and it is irresponsible to pretend otherwise.

You've highlighted the reports from victims of these prisons; let me ask you this: If one of the prison guards issued a report that stated the opposite, would you believe them? If I was somehow able to provide a report that denied the allegations, would that change your mind?

Doubtful, however my point is that you have already made up your mind and the only message you will accept is one that confirms your existing beliefs.

But now you say that what I said might "regrettably occur". So now you're saying I'm right but there are plenty of bad penal systems. Well I wasn't writing a post about the world's penal systems. I was writing about one penal system. Please feel free start your own thread to first write about all of them before proving an opinion on any.

For God's sake Kreskin - this is prison!.. Prison isn't a nice place and bad things happen there. The point that earth_as_one made earlier in this thread relative to other nations highlights this point... It happens in prison regardless of the country.

That said, rail-away at the NK penal system, but the fact is it's not different from any other AND if this is the case, what makes the North Koreans any different from the Japanese, Britons, Swedes or Canadians...

In the end, the message is that thre are many unpalatable risks associated with brealing the law in any jurisdiction. If you don't want exposure to these possible issues - don't violate the laws.

Don't misinterpret my position. I am not supporting the North Korean establishment, but I won't go as far in tarring that entire nation and it's people based solely on speculation.

 

[Kreskin]

It is a slave concentration camp. Forced work, starvation, malnutrition, brutality and, yes, sexual abuse of some. You can brush that off willy nilly from the front of your monitor and keyboard, but that's what it is.

 

[captain morgan]

... 'Cause you say so?.. Is that it?

 

[Kreskin]

Do you think they get a couple weeks off a year for a trip to Disneyland?

 

[Kreskin]

You think the ombudsman is in there making sure they get sushi and dim sum?

 

[captain morgan]

You think the ombudsman is in there making sure they get sushi and dim sum?

They get their take-out from the NK guards when they sneak over the razor-wire fence into China to kidnap unsuspecting American journalists.

 

[Kreskin]

Why don't you tell us about the human rights that aren't violated in those camps.

 

[captain morgan]

Here's the difference between you and I Kreskin:

Intuitively, I highly suspect that violations occur in all prisons throughout the world.. North Korea is included. However, this is tempered by 2 important issues.

1) The people in these prisons are convicted felons: That means that they broke the local laws and/or violated the human rights of a citizen within that nation.

2) The degree of care (ie medical) or concern for the inmates is directly correlated to the economic well-being of that nation. This is a more complex area, however, the short explanation runs along the lines that the country will direct their limited resources at providing for the general public long before thay worry about the conditions in their prisons.

In the end, this is about 2 American journalists that I believe illegally entered the country and are now uber-regretful only because they got caught. Had these women been able to sneak in and out successfully, they'd have written their piece and been hailed as heroes in the West while in NK, they would have been 2 foreigners that violated NK's laws, their soverignity and their rights.

 

[Kreskin]

Steal a pack of gum and get sent to a slave camp. Ya, it sure makes sense.

 

[captain morgan]

Yaeh, sure. Too bad that you can't see this with a little more objectivity.