No...you've proven that it didn't exist in your f*ck'n nephew a$$wipe...that's all you've f*ck'n proven. and I'm not your f*ck'n mate sh*thead.
Senators approve anti-spanking bill
- Thread starter Praxius
- Start date
No...you've proven that it didn't exist in your f*ck'n nephew a$$wipe...that's all you've f*ck'n proven. and I'm not your f*ck'n mate sh*thead.
I'm glad you are happy, doesn't change my opinion. Human beings have to move past
this ancient ritual of 'hitting' their kids, there are lots of options that work just as
well, and don't make the parent look silly wielding a wooden spoon across a kids butt.
Most everybody will fall into line if they think they will be hit, if they don't
And those other options, so often employed by parents in the past twenty years, have produced a generation of self-indulgent monsters who display little or no respect for their elders; no sense of moral balance and no sense of self-control.
No matter what human beings move past, is it wise to forget animal roots? I'd hate to think all that junk I studied about Pavlov's pooch was a waste of time - 'cuz I really hated psych class....
who ya talken to bud, must be me again, oh well.
if the present law protected the children I am referring to, they would not have to make
a new law, and they would know that, they are fixing loop holes, for parents who
just 'dont' get it'.
So these parents that have moved past hitting their kids,
You've admitted you aren't one of them and you've had to hit your own kids.
Kids need physical pain, its part of the learning process. Your own punishments you've listed are cruel and sadistic mind games designed to use fear and shame to destroy their minds and sense of self identity and control.
I don't know if you ever got smacked, but a smack to the head or behind when your way out of line is not mentally damaging.
Where do people get these ideas that a smack is some grand pain that lasts through life as a great torment?
When you stub your toe, do you now wake up in a cold sweat every night, dreading that time you stubbed your toe?
Im guessing no. Physical pain is not some great catastrophe that damages people forever.
Now emotional pain, of a mother doing things like using emotional blackmail and threats to coerce her children to me would be far more damaging.
Im quite glad all other things considered, at least my parents never stooped to try and inflict long term mental damage on me because they didn't want to get their hands dirty with a smack.
All this talk of emotional well being, anyone got any actual data that says a smack is worse than (ignoring in my opinion its better than) doing such things as threatening to ruin their social life?
You made your kids fear that you would ban them from social activities, screw up their social relations with everyone else in their life.
Thats a whole lot more to fear than a shmuck.
And you are right, it is getting boring.
The new law IS FOR PEOPLE WHO GIVE ONE SMACK LET ALONE A COUPLE OF SMACKS.
That is EXACTLY what the new law is for.
Thats a whole lot more to fear than a shmuck.
And you are right, it is getting boring.
The new law IS FOR PEOPLE WHO GIVE ONE SMACK LET ALONE A COUPLE OF SMACKS.
That is EXACTLY what the new law is for.
This is a cut n paste but it makes a lot of sense. I spoke with the writer at length, and the deeper he explained it the more sense it made:
Parents need to know that discipline doesn’t mean hitting or punishing unruly toddlers. It does mean ensuring their emotional health and protecting them from themselves. With guidance, parents can come to understand that setting limits and saying “No” are acts of love.
While performing a routine school physical on a 6-year-old, I couldn’t help noticing how his 16-month-old brother was busy exploring every inch of the examination room. Halfway through my exam, I remarked to the mother about her lively little toddler, “I notice he’s quite active and curious. How to you make him obey you…how do you discipline him?”
Shocked by my question, the mother responded indignantly, “Discipline him? I don’t discipline him. He’s too young to be hit!”
I replied that as a matter of principle, I didn’t believe in hitting children of any age. I then explained to the mother exactly what I meant by discipline. In the case of her adventurous 16-month-old, it had absolutely nothing to do with punishing or hitting him and everything to do with supervising and protecting him.
1. Discipline doesn’t mean punishment: The vast majority of parents, including the majority of pediatricians, mistakenly think that discipline is the same as punishment. Mere mention of the word “discipline” causes uneasiness and confusion.
Just as a careful history and physical exam are essential to an accurate diagnosis, effective discipline is the key to healthy and successful parenting. Discipline is one of the most important aspects of parenting, but much ignorance and confusion surrounds it. Thus, it should come as no surprise that while more “how-to” parenting books are available now than ever before, there is also more parental anxiety, frustration, guilt and uncertainty.
2. Sparing the rod doesn’t spoil the child: Over 200 years ago, it was believed that night air caused pneumonia and that “bleeding” patients was necessary to cure them. People also believed that beating children made them grow into upright citizens and responsible adults. Indeed, parents who refused to beat their children were accused of being neglectful and irresponsible. Unfortunately, even today, there are all too many adults, parents and non-parents alike who cling to the belief that physical punishment is necessary in the rearing and “disciplining” of children.
As a result of more than 20 years of dealing with various types of childhood behaviour problems, I am convinced that the most effective discipline involves no punishment. Hitting, threatening, withholding privileges or grounding are not only the least effective forms of discipline, but when used excessively or harshly they actually contribute to the development of subsequent emotional and behavioural problems in children.
3. Discipline with love and without pain: Effective discipline is based on controlling the child’s behaviour without threatening, hitting, shaming or other forms of punishment. When this type of non-punitive discipline is consistently applied to children in a context of unconditional love and acceptance, children will thrive emotionally and psychologically. As a matter of fact, children of all ages not only need discipline, they want it.
The only requirement is that parents be physically stronger than their children because some physical restraint may be necessary. It is essential, therefore, that discipline begin when the toddler begins his first significant interaction with and exploration of his environment. This is a stage when curious children must be consistently supervised, watched and restrained.
When there is a direct conflict between what the child and parent want, the parent must win for the child to win. Discipline can be non-democratic. Parents should not threaten, plead, cajole, bribe or offer many choices. There are situations when a child must simply obey a parent. Understand that saying “No” and setting consistent, age-appropriate limits are a form of loving and giving.
4. Because I’m the parent, that’s why: To understand why I advocate a form of discipline that often disregards what children want, we must recognize that they are not really capable of making mature and appropriate decisions on their own.
Being immature, they want what they want, right now, with a limited ability to tolerate frustration. They will whine, throw temper tantrums and make unreasonable demands. They are clingy yet adventurous, afraid yet fearless. It is critically important that parents be aware that small children must be protected from themselves. Normal toddlers are not responsible or accountable for their actions. Their parents are, however.
Effective discipline does give parents the tools to protect their children. Once parents fully understand the concept, they will no longer find themselves becoming increasingly upset and frustrated by trying to reason with their toddlers who, by definition, are unreasonable and immature.
5. How to discipline: Effective discipline includes any action on the part of the parent that changes the child’s interaction with the environment. The key point is that discipline does not require the child’s consent or cooperation. Assuming there is no emergency and time permits, the parent simply tells the child what to do, clearly and firmly. The child is told once, and if he does not respond, the parent repeats the instruction once more, 10 to 15 seconds later. The parent does not repeat the instructions more than twice.
If the child does not respond immediately, the parent assists him, taking him by the arm and removing him from whatever he is doing. No “time-out” or change of location is necessary, just simple assertion of parental authority.
After letting go of the child’s arm, the parent can expect him to try to return to the thing you wanted him to stop. The parent then quickly restrains the child and presents him from doing so. At this point, the child will probably become upset and even throw a temper tantrum. That’s all right. It’s normal, age-appropriate activity and it means the parents are setting limits properly.
Basically, the parent should respond to a temper tantrum by 1. Not giving in to the child. 2. No punishing. If the parent uses this approach, temper tantrums, which peak between 16 and 24 months of age, will gradually decrease and rarely happen after age 3.
The next step is the most important and where most parents fail: The child is not allowed to return to the activity. The parent physically restrains the child with the least amount of force. The parent is setting limits in a situation in which the child is incapable of setting limits. When parents set consistent limits, the child will ultimately be able to do it for himself.
6. Why saying “No” can be positive: Effective discipline is not a negative concept. It does not deprive the child, but enhances and protects him. It provides what the child is unable or unwilling to provide for himself. The 3-week-old infant who is fed when hungry is being “disciplined.” The 3-month-old who has his diaper changed is being “disciplined.” The 6-month-old who is prevented from rolling off the change table onto the floor is being “disciplined.” The 1-year-old who is comforted when upset or afraid is being “disciplined.”
There are certain things, however, that children must not be allowed to experience routinely, since such experiences are socially unacceptable, potentially harmful or both. . Effective discipline does not allow 1-year-olds to touch hot stoves, 18-month olds to ingest poisons, 2-year-olds to fall out of windows or 3-year-olds to drown in swimming pools. Effective discipline loves, protects, guides, retrains and allows children to safely develop mastery of the essential psychosocial tasks of early childhood.
As children become older and more emotionally mature and responsible, they can be allowed more freedom and choices commensurate with their maturity and ability to handle them. Children, as well as adults, however, never completely outgrow the need for some limits and structure in their lives.
The psychological and emotional health of children is just as important as their physical health. It is time for us to safeguard their emotional and mental health with as much concern and deliberation. In young children, effective discipline saves lives; in children of all ages, it promotes growth. The consistent application of discipline in the context of unconditional, no-strings-attached parental love is the surest way to immunize children against serious emotional and psychological disorders.
Parents need to know that discipline doesn’t mean hitting or punishing unruly toddlers. It does mean ensuring their emotional health and protecting them from themselves. With guidance, parents can come to understand that setting limits and saying “No” are acts of love.
While performing a routine school physical on a 6-year-old, I couldn’t help noticing how his 16-month-old brother was busy exploring every inch of the examination room. Halfway through my exam, I remarked to the mother about her lively little toddler, “I notice he’s quite active and curious. How to you make him obey you…how do you discipline him?”
Shocked by my question, the mother responded indignantly, “Discipline him? I don’t discipline him. He’s too young to be hit!”
I replied that as a matter of principle, I didn’t believe in hitting children of any age. I then explained to the mother exactly what I meant by discipline. In the case of her adventurous 16-month-old, it had absolutely nothing to do with punishing or hitting him and everything to do with supervising and protecting him.
1. Discipline doesn’t mean punishment: The vast majority of parents, including the majority of pediatricians, mistakenly think that discipline is the same as punishment. Mere mention of the word “discipline” causes uneasiness and confusion.
Just as a careful history and physical exam are essential to an accurate diagnosis, effective discipline is the key to healthy and successful parenting. Discipline is one of the most important aspects of parenting, but much ignorance and confusion surrounds it. Thus, it should come as no surprise that while more “how-to” parenting books are available now than ever before, there is also more parental anxiety, frustration, guilt and uncertainty.
2. Sparing the rod doesn’t spoil the child: Over 200 years ago, it was believed that night air caused pneumonia and that “bleeding” patients was necessary to cure them. People also believed that beating children made them grow into upright citizens and responsible adults. Indeed, parents who refused to beat their children were accused of being neglectful and irresponsible. Unfortunately, even today, there are all too many adults, parents and non-parents alike who cling to the belief that physical punishment is necessary in the rearing and “disciplining” of children.
As a result of more than 20 years of dealing with various types of childhood behaviour problems, I am convinced that the most effective discipline involves no punishment. Hitting, threatening, withholding privileges or grounding are not only the least effective forms of discipline, but when used excessively or harshly they actually contribute to the development of subsequent emotional and behavioural problems in children.
3. Discipline with love and without pain: Effective discipline is based on controlling the child’s behaviour without threatening, hitting, shaming or other forms of punishment. When this type of non-punitive discipline is consistently applied to children in a context of unconditional love and acceptance, children will thrive emotionally and psychologically. As a matter of fact, children of all ages not only need discipline, they want it.
The only requirement is that parents be physically stronger than their children because some physical restraint may be necessary. It is essential, therefore, that discipline begin when the toddler begins his first significant interaction with and exploration of his environment. This is a stage when curious children must be consistently supervised, watched and restrained.
When there is a direct conflict between what the child and parent want, the parent must win for the child to win. Discipline can be non-democratic. Parents should not threaten, plead, cajole, bribe or offer many choices. There are situations when a child must simply obey a parent. Understand that saying “No” and setting consistent, age-appropriate limits are a form of loving and giving.
4. Because I’m the parent, that’s why: To understand why I advocate a form of discipline that often disregards what children want, we must recognize that they are not really capable of making mature and appropriate decisions on their own.
Being immature, they want what they want, right now, with a limited ability to tolerate frustration. They will whine, throw temper tantrums and make unreasonable demands. They are clingy yet adventurous, afraid yet fearless. It is critically important that parents be aware that small children must be protected from themselves. Normal toddlers are not responsible or accountable for their actions. Their parents are, however.
Effective discipline does give parents the tools to protect their children. Once parents fully understand the concept, they will no longer find themselves becoming increasingly upset and frustrated by trying to reason with their toddlers who, by definition, are unreasonable and immature.
5. How to discipline: Effective discipline includes any action on the part of the parent that changes the child’s interaction with the environment. The key point is that discipline does not require the child’s consent or cooperation. Assuming there is no emergency and time permits, the parent simply tells the child what to do, clearly and firmly. The child is told once, and if he does not respond, the parent repeats the instruction once more, 10 to 15 seconds later. The parent does not repeat the instructions more than twice.
If the child does not respond immediately, the parent assists him, taking him by the arm and removing him from whatever he is doing. No “time-out” or change of location is necessary, just simple assertion of parental authority.
After letting go of the child’s arm, the parent can expect him to try to return to the thing you wanted him to stop. The parent then quickly restrains the child and presents him from doing so. At this point, the child will probably become upset and even throw a temper tantrum. That’s all right. It’s normal, age-appropriate activity and it means the parents are setting limits properly.
Basically, the parent should respond to a temper tantrum by 1. Not giving in to the child. 2. No punishing. If the parent uses this approach, temper tantrums, which peak between 16 and 24 months of age, will gradually decrease and rarely happen after age 3.
The next step is the most important and where most parents fail: The child is not allowed to return to the activity. The parent physically restrains the child with the least amount of force. The parent is setting limits in a situation in which the child is incapable of setting limits. When parents set consistent limits, the child will ultimately be able to do it for himself.
6. Why saying “No” can be positive: Effective discipline is not a negative concept. It does not deprive the child, but enhances and protects him. It provides what the child is unable or unwilling to provide for himself. The 3-week-old infant who is fed when hungry is being “disciplined.” The 3-month-old who has his diaper changed is being “disciplined.” The 6-month-old who is prevented from rolling off the change table onto the floor is being “disciplined.” The 1-year-old who is comforted when upset or afraid is being “disciplined.”
There are certain things, however, that children must not be allowed to experience routinely, since such experiences are socially unacceptable, potentially harmful or both. . Effective discipline does not allow 1-year-olds to touch hot stoves, 18-month olds to ingest poisons, 2-year-olds to fall out of windows or 3-year-olds to drown in swimming pools. Effective discipline loves, protects, guides, retrains and allows children to safely develop mastery of the essential psychosocial tasks of early childhood.
As children become older and more emotionally mature and responsible, they can be allowed more freedom and choices commensurate with their maturity and ability to handle them. Children, as well as adults, however, never completely outgrow the need for some limits and structure in their lives.
The psychological and emotional health of children is just as important as their physical health. It is time for us to safeguard their emotional and mental health with as much concern and deliberation. In young children, effective discipline saves lives; in children of all ages, it promotes growth. The consistent application of discipline in the context of unconditional, no-strings-attached parental love is the surest way to immunize children against serious emotional and psychological disorders.
Good find, Kreskin. That's pretty much how we went about raising our kids. It worked. I have seen people that have given their kids the odd swat now and then and the kids have turned out quite well, too, though. I don't think one set of rules applies to everyone, as a result. Just have to keep experimenting and figure out what DOES work on which kid, but do it constructively.
Was this person Roseanne Barr?
Don't cave in, a good "Yeah? So what?" and a lot of hugs (and the very odd "crash situation" smack on the butt) seemed to be enough to let my kids know the world doesn't care ... but I do.
Thanks, Kres!
Woof!
Don't cave in, a good "Yeah? So what?" and a lot of hugs (and the very odd "crash situation" smack on the butt) seemed to be enough to let my kids know the world doesn't care ... but I do.
Thanks, Kres!
Woof!
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I call total and utter bull on this post. I've seen plenty of kids who are parented without spanking who are immensely respectful and kind and caring. Yet, when you look at the cases of child predators killing other children, they come from backgrounds of abuse. When I think of the kids who threatened to kill my cat, those were kids who I knew got swatted on the arse at home. It didn't teach them a damn thing. They were little hooligans... a 6 year old girl I needed to be afraid of.
To use my own example, my son by 6 years old was violent and angry. He was disrespectful and would lash out at almost everyone around him as his mood saw fit. Cut out the spankings as an attempt to correct his behavior, and he turned around 180.
Spankings are not the only way, and those 'other methods' work fine. You're using a total cop out.
- exactly yes yes yes
- great article, I will keep that in a special place. Thanks Kreskin
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I think I see your problem, (though I could be way of base)
1.) You don't understand that this new law does apply to one smack.
2.) You have never seen a messy divorce.
"If daddy smacks you because you throw your food at his new wife and call her a ***** at thanksgiving dinner, tell me and I'll buy you that new Wii"
or
"If mommy doesn't let you stay up till midnight call her a ******** and she can't hit you, she isn't allowed"
Yes those type of things happen, especially when one parent wants to screw over the other one financially (related to custody).
There is no good reason for this law other than to make it harder to raise children, from people who have no idea.
Smacking kids does not cause fear, it does not ruin their lives, unless done to an extreme.
And any punishment done to an extreme (locking kids in room, taking them out of school to be homeschooled, forbidding them from normal childhood social activities with their friends) can cause permanent emotional damage.