Senators approve anti-spanking bill

[Kreskin]

There's no need to spank a kid when you can hang them upside by the ankles from a balcony.

 

[Risus]

Many parent's discipline comes under the heading of child abuse, but they would not admit to that, and don't really believe it. There is a huge spectrum between a spank
on the bottom and a punch in the head. The point here is, to protect the children who
fall through the cracks, as their parents are abusing them, and are protected by the law.
Not any more, thank goodness.

My husband had 'those old fashioned' parents who whaled on them when they did (what they said, was wrong). My husband sneeked out to go and play hockey, as he was told
that hockey was stupid and he could not go. He loved to play so much he went anyway.
He got all of his own equipment and skates, second hand and given to him from other
players and friends, his parents didn't spend one cent.
When he got home he was physically whaled on, and he took it, then went to hockey again next time. He has a 'dent' in the back of his head from being hit by a chunk of
firewood that was hurled at him, as he was running away from his mom. He didn't
whine or complain about it in all these years, but I sure will.
Protect the children who suffer under these kind of parents, who don't have the intelligence to say what needs to be said, but they do have the 'rage' to hurl their
physical selves powerfully over their children, and it doesn't have to be physical
abuse to the extent that lands them in the emmergency room, to be wrong.
All you do when you hit children, is teach them to hit others, and to be afraid of you.

His parents were 'basically' good people, but lots of hollering, threatening, criticizm, and
when they were younger, physical punishment in the moment of anger.

Yeah, but your husband disobeyed the wishes of his parents, intentionally, more than once. He had no respect for them and deserved a good ass wooping.

 

[lone wolf]

Hitting your kids isn't the only way to teach manners though wolf... far from it. Hitting your kids without all the other immensely necessary parenting steps, is just hitting your kids.

Absence of beatings doesn't mean absence of discipline, consequence, and respect.

Whoa, there.... Where did I say hitting is the only way to teach manners? I raised three and can count the number of times all of them got a crack on the butt without taking my shoes off. It's the thought that counts. Best part of the head game that is child psychology is that which the kid lets grow big in his own mind. Like I said.... Hitting is a last and desperate measure - followed immediately by The Talk.

 

[Zzarchov]

Remember, kids should falsely grow up thinking no one will hit or harm you if you misbehave.

That way all parents can fail to make their children ready for society.

This way they can mouth off to people get tazed, have their face smeared into concrete with a boot on their head and get otherwise manhandled, because that how our legal system works.

But hey, want parent doesn't want to see their kid risk dying simply because they want to be a "cool" bestfriend rather than a parent?

 

[talloola]

Yeah, but your husband disobeyed the wishes of his parents, intentionally, more than once. He had no respect for them and deserved a good ass wooping.

Yes he did, and the physical punishment he got did nothing but make him resentful.
He only wanted to play hockey, a young canadian kid who loved the game, trying to talk
to two old fashioned stubborn immigrant parents, who thought sports was a waste of
time, as the kid should be working. The ignorance of the parents included hitting as
they knew no other way, it's sad, but many of those types of parents were treated that
way as children and thought it was the proper thing to do. They had no clue how to talk
through a situation.
The rules parents set, are just that rules, and it doelsn't mean that it is right for that child, he just wanted to play hockey, and other sports as well, it was finally his uncle who
came to his rescue, as he was also a sports lover and understood.
Your above statement sounds comical.

 

[talloola]

Remember, kids should falsely grow up thinking no one will hit or harm you if you misbehave.

That way all parents can fail to make their children ready for society.

This way they can mouth off to people get tazed, have their face smeared into concrete with a boot on their head and get otherwise manhandled, because that how our legal system works.

But hey, want parent doesn't want to see their kid risk dying simply because they want to be a "cool" bestfriend rather than a parent?

You are going from one extreme all the way to the other, and ignoring the huge amount
of decisions that could be made in between. Parents who choose to 'hit' are too lazy or too controlling or too stupid to think.

 

[gerryh]

You are going from one extreme all the way to the other, and ignoring the huge amount
of decisions that could be made in between. Parents who choose to 'hit' are too lazy or too controlling or too stupid to think.

and morons that make blanket statements like this...are exactley that...morons with no grey matter between their ears what so ever!

 

[talloola]

You sorta jumped a step ahead. Discipline is the self restraint inspired by "my ass is gonna blister when Mom finds out" That becomes manners ... something that kids and parents both severely lack today.

I was a very strict but fair parent, and my kids were well behaved, and it wasn't an
accident. They had lots of respect for me and knew the rules and not to break them.
The closest I came to 'hitting' any of them was to 'grab' and 'hold', and I hardly ever had
to do that. I think I had 'the look' and 'the voice', but never hollered. They want to
be stopped from doing stupid things, they want to know the limit they can go. Kids
need that, and without the limits, they will go further and further with behavior that
is unacceptable.
If they misbehaved out in public, they immediately led to the car, and taken home, and
the next time, they thought twice about what they did when on an outing, and I did
that from a very young age.
The biggest problem I see belongs to the parent, as they constantly threaten to do
'whatever' and never do it, and the kid knows that. That drives me crazy.
Mothers do more whining than the children, if they would only take action and follow
through with it, (not hitting), they would get good results.
The poor parent today is the brat from yesterday.

 

[talloola]

and morons that make blanket statements like this...are exactley that...morons with no grey matter between their ears what so ever!

you must be a hitter

 

[gerryh]

you must be a hitter

I have had 7 kids....they were ALL different in what type of discipline I had to use. Corporal punishment was and is a last resort in my house, and I do mean a last resort. Having 3 ADD children, my wife and I have run the gamut with every type of parenting techniques you can think of. NEVER would I make a blanket statement like you just did. It shows your complete lack of experience and knowledge. Unless you have been there and seen how NOTHING else has worked and how a well placed smack on the ass sudenly turns a light bulb on and the offending behaviour off, keep your bull**** accusatory statements to yourself!

 

[Scott Free]

Canada is broken.

 

[talloola]

I have had 7 kids....they were ALL different in what type of discipline I had to use. Corporal punishment was and is a last resort in my house, and I do mean a last resort. Having 3 ADD children, my wife and I have run the gamut with every type of parenting techniques you can think of. NEVER would I make a blanket statement like you just did. It shows your complete lack of experience and knowledge. Unless you have been there and seen how NOTHING else has worked and how a well placed smack on the ass sudenly turns a light bulb on and the offending behaviour off, keep your bull**** accusatory statements to yourself!

A well placed smack on the ass isn't in the catagory of 'hitting' in my opinion, and I have done that once or twice myself. I have had lots of experience raising four daughters,
and I have my opinions and I stand by them. I hate hitters, they defend themselves as
though they are the victims, 'awe poor parents, can't hit their kids any more', how mean
is that. Don't give me that crap. I've heard it all. Intelligent, positive, thoughtful,
strong, firm, consistant parents don't have to hit their kids. A well placed smack on
the ass is not what I'm talking about. If you've read my posts you could see that.
Many parents hit their kids, it is their method of disciplining, those kids need to
be protected, and I'm glad something is being done about. These parents hide behind their walls, and do what ever the hell they want to their kids. And that ridiculous statement that says, if you can't hit your kids they will get out of control is not right.
That is the lazy part of parenting, they can't be bothered to think of anything better, so
out comes the hand, (or fist) and wham, the kid is hit, there now, get it, you sure wont
do that any more will you kid. Lazy, controlling and stupid, that's right.
What's the matter did I hit a sensitive nerve or something? Does this fit your label?

 

[Praxius]

Tall, I hope that you are aware that there are different types of kids and different types of parents with all kinds of different thought processes in between.

When they were talking to parents on the news last night about this, there were parents who don't hit their children, claiming they don't need to, and that their children are well mannered for the most part, but they also understood that not all kids are like their own and might require that.....

You have lots of experience rasing 4 girls.... have you ever had to deal with 4 boys? Raising girls is totally different then raising boys when it comes to keeping them under control.... hell it's divided down to the brain patterns and reasoning. Your way of dicipline may work well with girls, and my sister as an example didn't get smacked around as much as my brother and I.... my aunts wern't smacked around compared to my dad and my uncles.....

You preach to us about your almighty experience raising 4 girls.... well you're only experienced in one aspect of the situation, so your reasoning isn't the be-all, end-all, sorry to say. You might have taken care of someone else's boys once in a while, but how about for years apon years, day in and day out with multiple boys?

I'll tell you one thing, you try and just switch over to raising 4 boys tomorrow and tried to impose your authority on them the way you do with your 4 girls, and they're going to Pwnd you.

I know for a fact from my own childhood, that after so long of trying to take care of me, you'd probably end up shooting me..... I purposely tested the authority, I constantly tried to figure out other ways of causing all hell..... and eventually I got a smack.... and at that time I figured "Ok, no more fun and games."

Putting me in a corner only made me laugh.... I'd look over at my brother in the other corner and we'd be joking around, making faces, basically making a mockery out of the corner until my parents came back around and gave us a smack.

Tell me I can't watch any TV? Darn.... I'll just go in my room and play on my GameBoy. Take that away? Ok, I'll just draw.....

You take something away from me as punishment, and I could simply find something else to entertain for the time being..... it didn't teach me anything except how to use the system to my advantage.

But you can't take any advantage from a smack that hurts for a minute or two. Instead of wasting an hour in my bedroom for something I did wrong and not learning my lesson, a 3 second ass crack would be more effective in much less time.

I'm not a hitter yet, as I have no children yet, and when I do have a child of my own, I might not even have to resort to that option ever..... but I sure as hell don't want my hands tied when it comes to my child in the future doing something dangerous or completely out of line for way too long.

Once again, I don't advocate parents using physical punishment as an everyday or weekly trend to keep their kids in line, and should only be a last option, but so long as the kid knows it's still an option (Even though you might never do it) it's a bit more of a help then giving them the notion that they can get away with anything they damn well want.

And I sure as hell don't need the government or other asshole knowitalls telling me how to raise my kids..... the moment you spit my kid out from between your legs, I'll give you that right.... until then, you and the government can stay the hell out of my and my family's business. There isn't a handbook for how to raise your kids, and just like every other new parent, we all have to wing it..... for the government trying to make a handbook to dictate to us how to parent isn't right either.

And the country is wondering why there isn't enough people in the population having families to fill in the baby boom gap...... who the hell wants to raise a kid we're not allowed to parent ourselves and our authority is continually underminded by stupid crap like this, or when the kid can take you to court to overturn a grounding, such as the father and daughter who was punished and now allowed to go on some stupid trip?

Kids today are completely out of control generally speaking and it's because of idiots like the above who continually pass bills that prevent parents from being able to dicipline their children as they see fit, they're protected by the youth justice system, they're records are wiped clean when they hit 18, parents can't punish them harshly such as not allowing them to go on a stupid trip, parents now can't even spank their kids when they're out of control.

And you know something? Kids know all of this.... that's why there's been an overall increase in gangs and youth related violent crimes.... because those little pr*cks don't know responsibility and consequence, because their parents are not allowed to properly teach them this.

You're 4 girls might be little princesses, but not all kids are, and the parents of those kids who are not, don't need you dictating to them how to raise those kids, because you have no clue, plain and simple.

If you're talking about child abuse, where a parent has a bad day and just wants to beat the snot out of their kids the first chance they get, then that is totally not acceptable and that is not what I or anybody else here is defending.

A middle road acceptable for many here I would see as the rules and laws for spanking be more restricted to protect kids from jerks like that, but still leave the ability for other parents to take the proper measures they may need to take depending on their child's level of understanding.

FFS, they can handle a typical spanking.... it's not like they're going to grow up with a broken ass or truamatized, shaking in a corner of a padded cell.... the worse you might have is that they might start getting into S&M when they get older.

There's worse things in the world then S&M.

 

[gerryh]

A well placed smack on the ass isn't in the catagory of 'hitting' in my opinion, and I have done that once or twice myself. I have had lots of experience raising four daughters,
and I have my opinions and I stand by them. I hate hitters, they defend themselves as
though they are the victims, 'awe poor parents, can't hit their kids any more', how mean
is that. Don't give me that crap. I've heard it all. Intelligent, positive, thoughtful,
strong, firm, consistant parents don't have to hit their kids. A well placed smack on
the ass is not what I'm talking about. If you've read my posts you could see that.
Many parents hit their kids, it is their method of disciplining, those kids need to
be protected, and I'm glad something is being done about. These parents hide behind their walls, and do what ever the hell they want to their kids. And that ridiculous statement that says, if you can't hit your kids they will get out of control is not right.
That is the lazy part of parenting, they can't be bothered to think of anything better, so
out comes the hand, (or fist) and wham, the kid is hit, there now, get it, you sure wont
do that any more will you kid. Lazy, controlling and stupid, that's right.
What's the matter did I hit a sensitive nerve or something? Does this fit your label?

So....you're a hitter too eh........ guess what, this new legislation goes through, and you use a "well placed smack on the ass", you can be charged with assault. The existing legislation does not allow "beating" your child, but still allows for the "well placed smack". No one here is advocating "beating".:roll:

 

[karrie]

So....you're a hitter too eh........ guess what, this new legislation goes through, and you use a "well placed smack on the ass", you can be charged with assault. The existing legislation does not allow "beating" your child, but still allows for the "well placed smack". No one here is advocating "beating".:roll:

I don't get why they don't leave it at the current legislation. It doesn't leave much wiggle room for causing physical harm. It leaves some wiggle room for parents to be morons and spanking instead of parenting (which I never meant to imply was you wolf) on a regular basis, but not to be handing out serious physical damage.

 

[Zzarchov]

A well placed smack on the ass isn't in the catagory of 'hitting' in my opinion, and I have done that once or twice myself. I have had lots of experience raising four daughters,

Then you should read the topic. If you ever repeat that behaviour, you are now a criminal with a habit of child abuse and will probably lose all 4 daughters because you are such a terrible person in the eyes of the law.

 

[lone wolf]

I don't get why they don't leave it at the current legislation. It doesn't leave much wiggle room for causing physical harm. It leaves some wiggle room for parents to be morons and spanking instead of parenting (which I never meant to imply was you wolf) on a regular basis, but not to be handing out serious physical damage.

No need to even mention it. Nothing was taken as personal.... :smile:

Woof!

 

[talloola]

Tall, I hope that you are aware that there are different types of kids and different types of parents with all kinds of different thought processes in between.
At 69 years of age I'm well aware of all types of kids, have seem them all. No adult
has to 'hit' a child, or teenager to bring them into line, it only shows the child that
you are more powerfull (physically), but teaches them nothing (mentally)
Parents who have to argue that they have to hit their kids to keep them in line, are
saying that they have no other knowledge of how to manage their children. Too bad
for them.

When they were talking to parents on the news last night about this, there were parents who don't hit their children, claiming they don't need to,
No parent 'needs' to hit their children.

You have lots of experience rasing 4 girls.... have you ever had to deal with 4 boys? Raising girls is totally different then raising boys when it comes to keeping them under control...
Oh come on, give me a break.

. hell it's divided down to the brain patterns and reasoning. Your way of dicipline may work well with girls, and my sister as an example didn't get smacked around as much as my brother and I.... my aunts wern't smacked around compared to my dad and my uncles..

None of you should have been 'smacked around', it's got nothing to do with gender.
lots of parents think that boys can 'take' it, however, the emotional hurt still happens...

You preach to us about your almighty experience raising 4 girls.
I never speak in the 'allmighty' fashion lol that is your word, and speaks of you..

. well you're only experienced in one aspect of the situation, so your reasoning isn't the be-all, end-all, sorry to say. You might have taken care of someone else's boys once in a while, but how about for years apon years, day in and day out with multiple boys?
Sorry that approach isn't working, I know lots about boys, for years, had experiences
with boys, have grandsons, yadda yadda, shallow arguement.

I'll tell you one thing, you try and just switch over to raising 4 boys tomorrow and tried to impose your authority on them the way you do with your 4 girls, and they're going to Pwnd you.
You can speak of your experience, not mine.

I know for a fact from my own childhood, that after so long of trying to take care of me, you'd probably end up shooting me
Well that would definitely avoid having to 'hit' you lol

Putting me in a corner only made me laugh.... I'd look over at my brother in the other corner
Putting kids in corners is an old fashioned move, and it is ridiculous, my kids would
have done the same thing as you did in that situation.

Tell me I can't watch any TV? Darn.... I'll just go in my room and play on my GameBoy. Take that away? Ok, I'll just draw..
Seems like they were just trying to get rid of you, that's no punishment at all.
...

You take something away from me as punishment, and I could simply find something else to entertain for the time being..... it didn't teach me anything except how to use the system to my advantage.
Right, totally agree with that analogy.

But you can't take any advantage from a smack that hurts for a minute or two. Instead of wasting an hour in my bedroom for something I did wrong and not learning my lesson, a 3 second ass crack would be more effective in much less time.
too bad

I'm not a hitter yet, as I have no children yet, and when I do have a child of my own, I might not even have to resort to that option ever..... but I sure as hell don't want my hands tied when it comes to my child in the future doing something dangerous or completely out of line for way too long.

I think that is the point they made, it does allow you to physically handle a child in
a dangerous situation, thats only sensible, and I'm sure you will not have to hit your
children, I can see that you don't want to, and I can see that you have the intelligence
to seek other methods that work. Good luck with that.

Once again, I don't advocate parents using physical punishment as an everyday or weekly trend to keep their kids in line, and should only be a last option, but so long as the kid knows it's still an option (Even though you might never do it) it's a bit more of a help then giving them the notion that they can get away with anything they damn well want.
If you read my posts you know that I said that I did physically handle my kids, but I
never 'hit' them, ever. I did restrain them, occasionally, not often, and make them
sit and face me while I explain the situation, while still angry, but no hitting, or
bruising, or scaring, but definitely tough parenting, and keeping respect by them.



And I sure as hell don't need the government or other asshole knowitalls telling me how to raise my kids...
The law is to protect kids from parents who hit them often and the child has no way
out, and the parent is protected behind closed doors, children need that, as there
are too many parents who think they 'own' their kids and can do whatever they want
to them. Sorry, not true, and I'm glad.

And the country is wondering why there isn't enough people in the population having families to fill in the baby boom gap...... who the hell wants to raise a kid we're not allowed to parent ourselves and our authority is continually underminded by stupid crap like this, or when the kid can take you to court to overturn a grounding, such as the father and daughter who was punished and now allowed to go on some stupid trip?

You are being far too general, each situation should be judged on its own merit.

Kids today are completely out of control generally speaking and it's because of idiots like the above who continually pass bills that prevent parents from being able to dicipline their children as they see fit, they're protected by the youth justice system, they're records are wiped clean when they hit 18, parents can't punish them harshly such as not allowing them to go on a stupid trip, parents now can't even spank their kids when they're out of control.
It's usually the parent who is out of control, hitting the kid in the frenzy of anger,
if seen it often, and with belts that leave welts and bruises. Poor parent my ass.

And you know something? Kids know all of this.... that's why there's been an overall increase in gangs and youth related violent crimes.... because those little pr*cks don't know responsibility and consequence, because their parents are not allowed to properly teach them this.
I believe the exact opposite, many of those kids are ignored, beaten, some of them
have been sexually abused, and many of them are pampered and given too much
money, it takes all sorts of poor parenting to wreck a child.

You're 4 girls might be little princesses, but not all kids are, and the parents of those kids who are not, don't need you dictating to them how to raise those kids, because you have no clue, plain and simple.
The name calling you are doing just proves that you know no other way to balance
this discussion. The last I checked I no relative of the royal family, so my kids are
not princesses.

If you're talking about child abuse, where a parent has a bad day and just wants to beat the snot out of their kids the first chance they get, then that is totally not acceptable and that is not what I or anybody else here is defending.
Many parents use corporal punishment on a steady basis, it's their lifestyle.

A middle road acceptable for many here I would see as the rules and laws for spanking be more restricted to protect kids from jerks like that, but still leave the ability for other parents to take the proper measures they may need
The ones who abuse are doing just that, what they think is the proper measures.



FFS, they can handle a typical spanking.... it's not like they're going to grow up with a broken ass or truamatized, shaking in a corner of a padded cell.... the worse you might have is that they might start getting into S&M when they get older.
I'll just say the same as I said to that last guy, there is a huge spectrum, my points
are directed to those who live their lives constantly smacking and hitting their
children, and then hitting their teenagers, a perfect way to teach your kids to
do the same to their friends and later their own children.

I say again, 'lazy' as they have no interest in learning a better method, 'controlling' as
they like to show their child how powerful they are, and 'stupid' cause they haven't
grown with the times, as we have learned so much through the years, and those
types of parents 'just' didn't bother, or as I said before they came from the same kind
of homes.
I 'had' one significant other of my daughter's, who brought out the belt 'once', as he
had done that with his older son, and tried to do that with my grandson, sorry, she
took one look at that belt, and made him realize that he would 'never' ever hit their
son with it, it never came out again.
He just thought it was a 'normal' way to show 'him' who is the boss. Forget that.

I will speak my opinion just as tough as you speak yours, doesn't make me 'allmighty'
or anything else you might like to call me, it is 'what I believe', and have found to be
true.

 

[gerryh]

Taloola, I really don't know what your arguing about in here. The OP is about the senate changing the existing laws. Laws that at this time do NOT allow the use of unreasonable force when disciplining a child. It does NOT allow the use of belts, sticks, or other objects. It allows an open hand on the rump or an open hand to a hand. You, yourself have acknowledged that you have no problem with that and it appears you have even used that type of discipline.

The new legislation that just passed the Senate will make that open hand smack on the butt illegal. You could be charged with assault against your child and quite possibly SS apprehending your children. THIS is what we are arguing against in here, NOT the right to beat your child.

 

[shadowshiv]

Parents who choose to 'hit' are too lazy or too controlling or too stupid to think.

I am afraid I must disagree with this statement. My parents had given me and my two sisters spankings before, and we had even gotten the wooden spoon a couple of times. After getting the wooden spoon a couple of times, all my dad had to say was "get the wooden spoon" and we would start to behave again.

That did not(nor does it) make my parents either lazy, controlling, or too stupid to think. They raised us to care about other people, and treat them with respect.