Seems To Me

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
55,570
7,076
113
Washington DC
Right now, Job #1 is to tighten the money supply.

I don't see it as disputable that the most obvious (though not necessarily the only) cause of the inflation is too much money chasing too few goods and services. And the primary (though not the only) cause of that is "temporary emergency relief" the governments of the U.S., Canada, and the UK splashed out during the pandemic.

One way the money supply gets tightened is a recession, but that's a big hammer. Lots of "collateral damage."

Other tools are taxation and interest rates. Those are the traditional tools for governing the money supply.

Thoughts?
 

spaminator

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 26, 2009
35,817
3,031
113
Right now, Job #1 is to tighten the money supply.

I don't see it as disputable that the most obvious (though not necessarily the only) cause of the inflation is too much money chasing too few goods and services. And the primary (though not the only) cause of that is "temporary emergency relief" the governments of the U.S., Canada, and the UK splashed out during the pandemic.

One way the money supply gets tightened is a recession, but that's a big hammer. Lots of "collateral damage."

Other tools are taxation and interest rates. Those are the traditional tools for governing the money supply.

Thoughts?
hopefully there is a money supply to tighten. 💰 :eek: ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Taxslave2

Taxslave2

House Member
Aug 13, 2022
2,751
1,667
113
Cutting government spending and getting debt under control would be a good first step. Limiting the obscene interest rates charged on credit cards and payday loans would go a long way to helping people get out of debt.
Rather than raise interest rates, which basically only make the rich richer, make credit harder to obtain.
And don't let people like flossy give financial advice.
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
55,570
7,076
113
Washington DC
Cutting government spending and getting debt under control would be a good first step. Limiting the obscene interest rates charged on credit cards and payday loans would go a long way to helping people get out of debt.
Rather than raise interest rates, which basically only make the rich richer, make credit harder to obtain.
And don't let people like flossy give financial advice.
Arkansas did that. Capped credit card interest at 14% (yeah, that's crazy high, but it's the only cap I know of in the country). Gloom and doom were predicted. None actually happened.

That no other state (that I know of) has followed suit indicates the power of the banks in state legislatures.
 

Serryah

Executive Branch Member
Dec 3, 2008
8,973
2,071
113
New Brunswick
Arkansas did that. Capped credit card interest at 14% (yeah, that's crazy high, but it's the only cap I know of in the country). Gloom and doom were predicted. None actually happened.

That no other state (that I know of) has followed suit indicates the power of the banks in state legislatures.

Big issue locally, for me, is food prices. Inflation has put things so high it's hard to get things, if they're even in stock.

If I didn't have access to a car, local prices for food are insanely high. This being a university and retiree/senior town, there are a lot of people who don't have access to cars. Paying up near 100 just to travel fifteen minutes away - one way - for cheaper groceries doesn't help.

So, a broad spectrum limit on food prices and perhaps limits on how much of some product you can get (which could vary I guess). And making good food cost less than crap food would also help with getting people healthier.

(Side note: I went to Moncton - a half hour away - to pick up something from my brother, and took the opportunity to grocery shop while I was at it. For a cart full of stuff (mostly veg and meat) it came to 120. That SAME amount of stuff in my home town - if it was available - would have cost at least double. And that's just for me, a single person.

(not sure how much it has to do with the topic, TB, but... :p )
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tecumsehsbones

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
55,570
7,076
113
Washington DC
Big issue locally, for me, is food prices. Inflation has put things so high it's hard to get things, if they're even in stock.

If I didn't have access to a car, local prices for food are insanely high. This being a university and retiree/senior town, there are a lot of people who don't have access to cars. Paying up near 100 just to travel fifteen minutes away - one way - for cheaper groceries doesn't help.

So, a broad spectrum limit on food prices and perhaps limits on how much of some product you can get (which could vary I guess). And making good food cost less than crap food would also help with getting people healthier.

(Side note: I went to Moncton - a half hour away - to pick up something from my brother, and took the opportunity to grocery shop while I was at it. For a cart full of stuff (mostly veg and meat) it came to 120. That SAME amount of stuff in my home town - if it was available - would have cost at least double. And that's just for me, a single person.

(not sure how much it has to do with the topic, TB, but... :p )
Illustrative of the real impact of the problems we're facing.

Now, if only we could get past blamethrowing and work the damn problem. . .
 

Serryah

Executive Branch Member
Dec 3, 2008
8,973
2,071
113
New Brunswick
Illustrative of the real impact of the problems we're facing.

Now, if only we could get past blamethrowing and work the damn problem. . .

There's a lot of blame to go around, from Covid to Government to Corporations.

But yeah, actually DOING something would be better.

The big issue, at least one of them to me, is the willingness of Government and said Corporations TO do something. Like how far will they actually work to fix the issue? If they aren't willing to commit to a full push to fix things, then honestly they shouldn't even bother, even if a little relief would help.
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
55,570
7,076
113
Washington DC
The problem is that the measures needed to tame inflation often lead to recessions. The problem with recessions is that people seem to think they're disasters. They aren't. The U.S. has had seven in the last 50 years. If anything, a recession is an indication that you've overcorrected and need to ease up a bit.

Uncontrolled inflation is a far worse problem. That really does crash entire economies long-term.
 

Taxslave2

House Member
Aug 13, 2022
2,751
1,667
113
Big issue locally, for me, is food prices. Inflation has put things so high it's hard to get things, if they're even in stock.

If I didn't have access to a car, local prices for food are insanely high. This being a university and retiree/senior town, there are a lot of people who don't have access to cars. Paying up near 100 just to travel fifteen minutes away - one way - for cheaper groceries doesn't help.

So, a broad spectrum limit on food prices and perhaps limits on how much of some product you can get (which could vary I guess). And making good food cost less than crap food would also help with getting people healthier.

(Side note: I went to Moncton - a half hour away - to pick up something from my brother, and took the opportunity to grocery shop while I was at it. For a cart full of stuff (mostly veg and meat) it came to 120. That SAME amount of stuff in my home town - if it was available - would have cost at least double. And that's just for me, a single person.

(not sure how much it has to do with the topic, TB, but... :p )
It has a lot to do with the topic. One of the few places people can cut spending is on food. Or entertainment, which for a lot of us is already near zero.The catch is they eat junk food, which while less expensive than good food has long term effects on health care costs.
As fuel prices are forced up with more taxation and of course inflation the cost of everything we buy goes up. Also, with high food prices is the volume of fresh food that is thrown out at grocery stores. Just added to the cost on the shelf.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Serryah

Jinentonix

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 6, 2015
10,607
5,250
113
Olympus Mons
Big issue locally, for me, is food prices. Inflation has put things so high it's hard to get things, if they're even in stock.

If I didn't have access to a car, local prices for food are insanely high. This being a university and retiree/senior town, there are a lot of people who don't have access to cars. Paying up near 100 just to travel fifteen minutes away - one way - for cheaper groceries doesn't help.

So, a broad spectrum limit on food prices and perhaps limits on how much of some product you can get (which could vary I guess). And making good food cost less than crap food would also help with getting people healthier.

(Side note: I went to Moncton - a half hour away - to pick up something from my brother, and took the opportunity to grocery shop while I was at it. For a cart full of stuff (mostly veg and meat) it came to 120. That SAME amount of stuff in my home town - if it was available - would have cost at least double. And that's just for me, a single person.

(not sure how much it has to do with the topic, TB, but... :p )
A simple solution to food supply issues is to put an end to the fast food and chain restaurant industries. Most of them get the pick of the crop, and so much gets wasted it should be fucking criminal. At least family-run restaurants work to limit their waste, for the most part.

But let me give you an example of what I mean. There are some 25,000 McDonalds and BK locations (total) in North America. An average-size steer will produce about 2500 1/4lb patties if you processed all the meat into 1/4lb patties. If every McD and BK location in North America alone tossed just one 1/4lb patty in the dumpster at the end of the day it would be equivalent to throwing 10 cows into the dumpster. Every day. That's ten cows every day where the resources to raise them, feed them, transport them, and process them were completely wasted on nothing. And we know damn well that each location tosses a helluva lot more than one single 1/4lb patty into the dumpster at the end of the day. And that's just one item. Then there's all the lettuce, tomatoes, onions, pickles, buns etc that end up in the dumpster every day as well. And all the resources wasted to grow and transport them end right up in the dumpster with them.

On top of all that, it's not incorrect at all to state that the agriculture-fast food/chain restaurant industrial chain is one of the most destructive industrial chains on the planet and is unquestionably the most wasteful.

Fortunately, other than a few non-necessities (like Coca-Cola) my family hasn't been all that affected by any shortages in the grocery stores. We even score some nice deals on pork roasts, bone-in hams, chicken and frozen fish filets. We don't even bother with name brands for the most part anymore either. Quite often these days the store brands are just as good, if not better, than the name brands. 'Our Compliments' store brand is one that's pretty good. Even a lot of the yellow 'No-Name' products are pretty good.

Limiting how much of something someone can buy is not a good idea. It's smacks too much of what of the Soviets called "communism". Like some braying jackass in the US who stated that no one needs to buy 18 eggs at a time or something like that. Like, really? If you got 5 or 6 people in the household sitting down for Sunday breakfast those 18 eggs are gonna go fast. Fuck, there's only three of us in our household and we can blow through a dozen eggs in a few days. And that's without being piggish about it. Hell, we only eat one meal a day. Although my wife does a fair bit of baking so eating more than one meal a day would be pretty fattening. As I learned after we met. :LOL:

Outside of sale items or people who are obviously hoarding, telling people how much they can buy of something at the grocery store is bullshit. You don't know how big someone's family is. Or maybe they run/work for a group home or convalescent home or homeless shelter.

But in all reality, we need to do something about the scourge of fast food dumps and other chain restaurants. That would go a long way in helping to alleviate food issues.


As for the economic issues, that's another animal altogether. Federal spending needs to be reined in for one. Maybe NOT spend the $6+ billion on foreign aid for the next 12 months or so. Maybe NOT go ahead with the scheduled increase in the carbon tax scam... I mean super important planet-saving tithe.
Maybe NOT make it harder for farmers to produce the food we need. Maybe impose a federal moratorium on rent controls. Maybe quit importing 400,000 people a year while whining about the housing crisis. Maybe quit spending $6000/night on hotel suites and making Canadians pay for your household groceries. Maybe tell Quebec to go fuck itself, they're getting a pipeline through the province whether they like it or not.

Maybe quit electing some fucking ass-clown who thinks a journalist by trade is the perfect choice of Finance Minister. Maybe quit electing some arrogant asshole who thinks we're all a bunch of backwoods morons who barely l'arnt ar letterin' an' cypherin'.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dixie Cup

Serryah

Executive Branch Member
Dec 3, 2008
8,973
2,071
113
New Brunswick
A simple solution to food supply issues is to put an end to the fast food and chain restaurant industries. Most of them get the pick of the crop, and so much gets wasted it should be fucking criminal. At least family-run restaurants work to limit their waste, for the most part.

But let me give you an example of what I mean. There are some 25,000 McDonalds and BK locations (total) in North America. An average-size steer will produce about 2500 1/4lb patties if you processed all the meat into 1/4lb patties. If every McD and BK location in North America alone tossed just one 1/4lb patty in the dumpster at the end of the day it would be equivalent to throwing 10 cows into the dumpster. Every day. That's ten cows every day where the resources to raise them, feed them, transport them, and process them were completely wasted on nothing. And we know damn well that each location tosses a helluva lot more than one single 1/4lb patty into the dumpster at the end of the day. And that's just one item. Then there's all the lettuce, tomatoes, onions, pickles, buns etc that end up in the dumpster every day as well. And all the resources wasted to grow and transport them end right up in the dumpster with them.

On top of all that, it's not incorrect at all to state that the agriculture-fast food/chain restaurant industrial chain is one of the most destructive industrial chains on the planet and is unquestionably the most wasteful.

Fortunately, other than a few non-necessities (like Coca-Cola) my family hasn't been all that affected by any shortages in the grocery stores. We even score some nice deals on pork roasts, bone-in hams, chicken and frozen fish filets. We don't even bother with name brands for the most part anymore either. Quite often these days the store brands are just as good, if not better, than the name brands. 'Our Compliments' store brand is one that's pretty good. Even a lot of the yellow 'No-Name' products are pretty good.

Limiting how much of something someone can buy is not a good idea. It's smacks too much of what of the Soviets called "communism". Like some braying jackass in the US who stated that no one needs to buy 18 eggs at a time or something like that. Like, really? If you got 5 or 6 people in the household sitting down for Sunday breakfast those 18 eggs are gonna go fast. Fuck, there's only three of us in our household and we can blow through a dozen eggs in a few days. And that's without being piggish about it. Hell, we only eat one meal a day. Although my wife does a fair bit of baking so eating more than one meal a day would be pretty fattening. As I learned after we met. :LOL:

Outside of sale items or people who are obviously hoarding, telling people how much they can buy of something at the grocery store is bullshit. You don't know how big someone's family is. Or maybe they run/work for a group home or convalescent home or homeless shelter.

But in all reality, we need to do something about the scourge of fast food dumps and other chain restaurants. That would go a long way in helping to alleviate food issues.


As for the economic issues, that's another animal altogether. Federal spending needs to be reined in for one. Maybe NOT spend the $6+ billion on foreign aid for the next 12 months or so. Maybe NOT go ahead with the scheduled increase in the carbon tax scam... I mean super important planet-saving tithe.
Maybe NOT make it harder for farmers to produce the food we need. Maybe impose a federal moratorium on rent controls. Maybe quit importing 400,000 people a year while whining about the housing crisis. Maybe quit spending $6000/night on hotel suites and making Canadians pay for your household groceries. Maybe tell Quebec to go fuck itself, they're getting a pipeline through the province whether they like it or not.

Maybe quit electing some fucking ass-clown who thinks a journalist by trade is the perfect choice of Finance Minister. Maybe quit electing some arrogant asshole who thinks we're all a bunch of backwoods morons who barely l'arnt ar letterin' an' cypherin'.

In all honesty, I don't disagree with you here.

Thankfully I also DIDN'T elect the ass clown, so...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ron in Regina

Jinentonix

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 6, 2015
10,607
5,250
113
Olympus Mons
Seriously though Serryah, I've changed somewhat.

Back in the 80's, A&W came out with a 1/3 pound burger to compete with McDonalds Quarter pounder and was offering it for less than a Quarter Pounder. It failed. Not because it was a bad burger (it really wasn't actually, I had a few in the day), but because society was too stupid to wrap their heads around the fact that 1/3lb is heavier than 1/4lb.

And since society hasn't gotten any smarter since then, I've decided life is too short to argue with people on the internet. I'll still discuss stuff but arguing with people on the internet just goes round and round and round.

Happy Halloween. 🎃
 
  • Like
Reactions: Serryah

The_Foxer

House Member
Aug 9, 2022
3,084
1,837
113
Other tools are taxation and interest rates. Those are the traditional tools for governing the money supply.
And reduced spending of course. And yes, those are the big three. Put less money into the economy, remove money from the economy by way of interest rates. Taxation is actually a new thing, proposed as a more effective tool under Modern Monetary Theory. That's the idea that you can dump as much money as you like into the economy and then when inflation shows up run taxes through the roof to control that.

It doesn't work and it's kind of a dumb idea, but they ARE right about taxes. It takes 6 months to a year for interest rate changes to really be felt, but a change in consumption taxes (the gst here in canada for example) is felt almost immediately. And the money goes to the gov't, not the bank, so if the target IS overshot and a recession occurs then at least the gov't has more money to stimulate the economy to mitigate that. Trudeau should never have gotten us into this mess to begin with, now that we are in it he should be cutting back on spending and increasing the GST to at least 7%, possibly higher. Meanwhile the bank should have interest rate hikes but nowhere near as high as they have been. This strategy would achieve many positive results and would bring inflation under control much faster than the current policy.

Right now the bank is increasing interest rates at the same time that the Liberals are increasing spending. It's like hitting the brake and the gas at the same time. The United States is doing pretty much the exact same thing. Biden is dumping tons of unearned money into the economy and the bank is trying to suck it back out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dixie Cup

Serryah

Executive Branch Member
Dec 3, 2008
8,973
2,071
113
New Brunswick
Seriously though Serryah, I've changed somewhat.

Back in the 80's, A&W came out with a 1/3 pound burger to compete with McDonalds Quarter pounder and was offering it for less than a Quarter Pounder. It failed. Not because it was a bad burger (it really wasn't actually, I had a few in the day), but because society was too stupid to wrap their heads around the fact that 1/3lb is heavier than 1/4lb.

And since society hasn't gotten any smarter since then, I've decided life is too short to argue with people on the internet. I'll still discuss stuff but arguing with people on the internet just goes round and round and round.

Happy Halloween. 🎃

I've been trying to 'do better' myself. So far so good I think.

LOL - yeah, society STILL isn't able to get how a third is better than a quarter. If anything, some parts of it are worse...

I'll fullly admit my temper gets the better of me especially with some subjects (and sometimes my meds do not help level me off :p ) but honestly I'd rather just discuss, or agree with people on parts we can agree with. I promise, I'm not a total cunt all the time :p

Happy Spooky Day to you too!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jinentonix

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
55,570
7,076
113
Washington DC
Seriously though Serryah, I've changed somewhat.

Back in the 80's, A&W came out with a 1/3 pound burger to compete with McDonalds Quarter pounder and was offering it for less than a Quarter Pounder. It failed. Not because it was a bad burger (it really wasn't actually, I had a few in the day), but because society was too stupid to wrap their heads around the fact that 1/3lb is heavier than 1/4lb.

And since society hasn't gotten any smarter since then, I've decided life is too short to argue with people on the internet. I'll still discuss stuff but arguing with people on the internet just goes round and round and round.

Happy Halloween. 🎃
No one in this world, so far as I know - and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me - has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people.
--H. L. Mencken
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
23,135
7,992
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
Big issue locally, for me, is food prices. Inflation has put things so high it's hard to get things, if they're even in stock.
Lots just doesn’t seem to be available. Bought one (slightly larger than a softball) head of iceberg lettuce for $4.99 today & there’s no green onions to be had.
If I didn't have access to a car, local prices for food are insanely high. This being a university and retiree/senior town, there are a lot of people who don't have access to cars. Paying up near 100 just to travel fifteen minutes away - one way - for cheaper groceries doesn't help.
That’s pretty crazy. I hear public transport works in Toronto & Vancouver & Montreal due to their population bases.
So, a broad spectrum limit on food prices and perhaps limits on how much of some product you can get (which could vary I guess). And making good food cost less than crap food would also help with getting people healthier.
Yep, much cheaper to eat shit than to try to eat healthier generally.
(Side note: I went to Moncton - a half hour away - to pick up something from my brother, and took the opportunity to grocery shop while I was at it. For a cart full of stuff (mostly veg and meat) it came to 120. That SAME amount of stuff in my home town - if it was available - would have cost at least double. And that's just for me, a single person.
We stopped at a Walmart this afternoon, and three bags (misc.) was $232.60 and it didn’t take long to put away.
(not sure how much it has to do with the topic, TB, but... :p )
1670794631482.png

1670794650718.png
How is this going down in Quebec & NFL? Most provinces will see prices spike beyond the 2023 forecast, with Quebec and Newfoundland and Labrador expecting lower price increases.
1670794731725.png
This above feels serious low balled. Last year, Canada’s Food Price Report predicted an overall food price increase of 5% to 7%, but as of September, this rate stood at a shocking 10.3%.

In 2022, the use of food banks rose to never-before-seen heights in the country. Visits to food banks went up by a startling 35% compared to pre-pandemic food bank visits in 2019.

The Canada Food Price Report also notes that 20% of Canadians reported their household would be “likely or very likely” to get food or meals from community organizations including food banks, community centres, or other access points over the next six months.

Nearly half of Canadians (47%) said they’ve started buying cheaper alternatives of items they used to purchase.

StatsCan says there are multiple factors influencing this. “Contributing to price increases for food and beverages were unfavourable weather, higher prices for important inputs such as fertilizer and natural gas, as well as geopolitical instability stemming from Russia’s invasion of Ukraine,” explained the agency. Slap an ever increasing Carbon Tax on top of that, and the coming Clean Fuel Standard incentive on top of that that will eventually be passed onto the end user of everything, and Ta-Dah!!

As Canadians, you may be surprised to find that prices for cereal products (excluding baby food) rose by 17.9%. Following closely behind it is the price of coffee and tea, which rose by 16.4%. After that, baked goods come in at an increase of 14.8%. The only products that are below a 10% increase are dairy (9.7%), seafood (7.6%), and meat (7.6%) ??? Really? Only 7.6%?
1670795464198.png