SCOC - Appointees must be bilingual? Good or Bad Law

Goober

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I agree on all accounts, except for the who.

Immigration is a Federal policy, making sure those they allow in adhere to and adjust to Canadian culture and language, is their responsibility.


And then we have nuances -
What would be an acceptable and easily understood comment in 1 country is completely different in another -
I am referring to England and Canada - I heard this of all places on CBC

Situation -

Bunch of guys sitting in a bar in England
One stands up and states - I am going to bum a fag.

You would certainly raise more than eyebrows if you stated that in a Canadian Bar -
 

AnnaG

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I think PMs are required to keep the regional balance on the Supreme Court. I don't think they can appoint all the justices from one province, like Ontario. If a justice from the west retires, you may rest assured that a bilingual justice from the west will be appointed. The only problem is that he is much more likely to be a liberal than a conservative.


Currently SCOC holds liberal positions when it comes to Charter, minority rights etc. If only bilingual justices are appointed, that will continue, I don't see anything changing.
Are you saying that judges don't put aside their personal political preferences when they decide stuff?
 

AnnaG

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Good lord! There are only 9 justices on the Supreme Court of Canada. There are enough legal minds from across Canada bright enough to master both French and English!
Like I said, if Harper can pick up enough French in a couple years, intelligent people should be able to also.
 

Machjo

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I agree on all accounts, except for the who.

Immigration is a Federal policy, making sure those they allow in adhere to and adjust to Canadian culture and language, is their responsibility.

Sorry, you're right. I was confounding two things there. Here in Ottawa I'd met one woman, born and raised in Quebec, who'd moved to Ottawa with her ex-husband and then of course got a divorce. For reasons I don't know, she chose to remain in Ottawa with much difficulty in her job search owing to her poor English. For immigrants, yes, Immigration Canada can filter out those who don't know the local language (and even then, what happens if an English-speaker moves to central Quebec after becoming an immigrant?).

Somehow though, I doubt the idea of some kind of language card determining where you can travel within Canada will be politically palatable any time soon. For this reason, to ensure we don't end up with French Canadians outside Quebec and English-Canadians in Quebec failing to find work owing to the language barrier, our Ministries of Education need to do a better job of ensuring all Canadians share a common second language at lest. That is an economic imperative, and let's make no mistake of the economic costs of supporting those who cannot function because they don't know both official languages.

Immigration Canada can do very little about Canadians crossing the geographical language barrier within their own country, or native-born Canadians who live abroad for years and then return with a poor mastery of their national language. I'd met a couple cases like that too. Again, since they're born Canadian citizens, there is nothing Immigration Canada can do about them. Granted in that last example, our schools could do nothing either since the person would have been abroad until adulthood. Under such conditions, you'd want our common second language to be an easy one to learn so that such citizens can integrate quickly into the job market at least in the more cosmopolitan parts of the country. As native born citizens, they can't be refused entry back into Canada. Yet i we don't want them on welfare for very long, we need to be sure they can learn some common language quickly. This is where I suppose immigration Canada could take responsibility to integrate native-born Canadians who spend their childhood abroad too through language-learning programmes.
 

AnnaG

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Or to put it another way, AnnaG, if I speak 5 languages and you speak 5 languages, but there's still no common language between us, that's not our issue (no one has the time to learn 50 languages), that's the government's responsibility, and it falls on the shoulders of Provincial Ministries of Education to develop a second-language teaching policy that could ensure all Canadians can speak a common language fluently, even if it's only a common second language. They have failed miserably on that front, as national statistics on both sides of the language divide prove.
So you are saying that unless the gov't gives you the right education, you refuse to learn? Not me, Bub. If I want to learn something and the gov't refuses to help me, I do it myself.
 

CDNBear

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And then we have nuances -
What would be an acceptable and easily understood comment in 1 country is completely different in another -
I am referring to England and Canada - I heard this of all places on CBC

Situation -

Bunch of guys sitting in a bar in England
One stands up and states - I am going to bum a fag.

You would certainly raise more than eyebrows if you stated that in a Canadian Bar -


I've been English and Irish bars, I barely understood a thing they said period!
 

AnnaG

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And that's expensive too. Immigrants ought to be expected to know the local language before setting foot on Canadian soil so as to save money on interpretation and translation at all levels of government, including 911 emergency phone lines, police departments, hospitals, paramedics, etc. etc. etc. The money quickly adds up.
It's either that or else get the gov't to educate them in English. Oh, shucks, doesn't the gov't do that now? Why, yes, the gov't does offer EASL courses and whatever. But does that keep some of these people from picking up the language by themselves? No.
 

AnnaG

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What we were dealing with here was not people who could not speak this or that language, but rather those who simply couldn't speak any language. The same with hearing. In such cases, certainly LSQ and ASL might be required sign languages to know to compensate. I suppose I could see this as an alternative:

Must know written French and English, and
Must now either spoken French and English or ASL and LSQ, depending on the ability to speak and hear.

This would even prove beneficial in court cases involving a deaf person for instance.
Mandarin and Hindi would help, too. Better make them fluent in those, too.
 

AnnaG

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I agree on all accounts, except for the who.

Immigration is a Federal policy, making sure those they allow in adhere to and adjust to Canadian culture and language, is their responsibility.
Oh, but the feds like to control the provinces abilities but keep shortchanging them in transfer payments. Or at least the Glib gov't does. So it is irrelevant that immigration is a Canadian thing rather than a provincial thing.
 

Machjo

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Mandarin and Hindi would help, too. Better make them fluent in those, too.

Better yet. expect the Mandarin and Hindi speaker to know the local language before he comes to Canada.

And no, I'd have no qualms if China and India had a similar requirement for us.
 

AnnaG

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Better yet. expect the Mandarin and Hindi speaker to know the local language before he comes to Canada.

And no, I'd have no qualms if China and India had a similar requirement for us.
I agree. Let's quit allowing refugees in that don't speak French or English or sign.
 

Machjo

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It's either that or else get the gov't to educate them in English. Oh, shucks, doesn't the gov't do that now? Why, yes, the gov't does offer EASL courses and whatever. But does that keep some of these people from picking up the language by themselves? No.

There is the LINC programme. From my observations though, not all immigrants know English or French. I'd met some who were already Canadian citizens who could not speak either English or French. In parts of Vancouver, they're quite happy with that.
 

Goober

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Oh, but the feds like to control the provinces abilities but keep shortchanging them in transfer payments. Or at least the Glib gov't does. So it is irrelevant that immigration is a Canadian thing rather than a provincial thing.
Anna G

Except for Quebec - They ave full control along with an inordinate share of the Immigration budget - This was done under the Liberals years ago - appeasement is what they used to call it- But the RoC is used to that -
 

AnnaG

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There is the LINC programme. From my observations though, not all immigrants know English or French. I'd met some who were already Canadian citizens who could not speak either English or French. In parts of Vancouver, they're quite happy with that.
I know. Then, give them an incentive to learn either by using gov't programs or by themselves. They pay taxes, don't they?
 

AnnaG

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Anna G

Except for Quebec - They ave full control along with an inordinate share of the Immigration budget - This was done under the Liberals years ago - appeasement is what they used to call it- But the RoC is used to that -
Right. It is irrelevant that it's a Canadian gov't purview except the feds like to maintain a standard.
 

JLM

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Or to put it another way, AnnaG, if I speak 5 languages and you speak 5 languages, but there's still no common language between us, that's not our issue (no one has the time to learn 50 languages), that's the government's responsibility, and it falls on the shoulders of Provincial Ministries of Education to develop a second-language teaching policy that could ensure all Canadians can speak a common language fluently, even if it's only a common second language. They have failed miserably on that front, as national statistics on both sides of the language divide prove.


When an immigrant comes to this country I think the onus should be on him to learn the language in a reasonable amount of time (I suggest one year) and after that his problems are his/her own, nothing to do with Gov't.