Saudi Arabia expelling Canadian ambassador, suspending new trade

[MHz]

If they get to be better friends with Israel than we are we are toast. If the US bails for any reason on either of them we are toast just through association.

 

[MHz]

Seems this PM of yours is damaging relations with quite a number of countries.



Saudi Arabia certainly humbled Trudeau.

He's like a door-knob, everybody gets a turn.

 

[EagleSmack]

Jamal Khashoggi's fiancee, in op-ed for The Post, implores Trump to help shed light on Saudi journalist's disappearance in Turkey

��I implore President Trump and first lady Melania Trump to help shed light on Jamal��s disappearance,�� Hatice Cengiz writes. ��I also urge Saudi Arabia, especially King Salman and Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, to show the same level of sensitivity and release CCTV footage from the consulate.��

Khashoggi disappeared last week after entering the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul, and Turkish officials have said they believe he was killed inside.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...c=al_news__alert-world--alert-national&wpmk=1

Lots of luck with that ........We know what Trump thinks of reporters and the wash Post.

We also know what happened when Trudeau spoke out against the Saudis. They made Justin grovel. So unbecoming for a leader of Canada to beg for forgiveness.

 

[Twin_Moose]

'A serious overreaction': Ex-Canadian ambassador to Saudi Arabia breaks silence on tweet-fuelled clash

Canada's former ambassador to Saudi Arabia, who was expelled this summer in a diplomatic row, has been holding his tongue — until now.
Dennis Horak wants to talk, and he has a lot to say about the tweet that effectively ended Canada's official rapport with Saudi Arabia, as well as Canada's handling of some of its international relationships.
He says he's not impressed with either.
"I think we took a step too far," he told CBC's The National during an interview at his brother's Toronto home.
"Whether we can come back from that, I don't know … But we need to begin deciding, do we want this? Do we want to salvage this relationship or not?"

© Sylvia Thomson/CBC Former Canadian ambassador to Saudi Arabia, Dennis Horak, speaks to CBC's Adrienne Arsenault in Toronto about Canada-Saudi diplomatic relations. 'I get that they were upset about the tweet, but to react the way they did, it was a serious overreaction,' he says.
His brother's house is also where Horak happened to be in early August when, on vacation, he learned the Saudis were throwing him out of the Kingdom. It was news that landed in the middle of a backyard BBQ with friends. And it came via Twitter.
The irony of that isn't lost on Horak.
"Yeah, yeah, not a fan," he says of Twitter diplomacy.
Veteran diplomat
Horak has been a diplomat for nearly 30 years and was at the three-year mark as Canada's ambassador in Saudi Arabia, his second posting in the Kingdom.
Now retired, he had hoped all that regional experience might help him advise those trying to do business in Saudi Arabia.
But then came the diplomatic dustup.
"Anybody who is going to want to do business in Saudi Arabia is not going to be putting me on a board," he says.
"I'm going to be the skunk at that party."
So how did it all go so wrong?
A single tweet incensed the Kingdom. Urging the immediate release of jailed women's rights activists, it was written by Global Affairs Canada. Then, as has become the practice, Horak says, it was translated by the Canadian embassy in Riyadh into Arabic and tweeted into infamy.
The Saudi response was swift and furious. The act of calling for an "immediate release" seems to be the language that set them off.
Horak says within six hours of the tweet he was barred from returning to the country. The Saudi ambassador to Canada was recalled, new trade stopped, and orders given to withdraw Saudi investment in Canada.
That might have been enough, but the retribution continued. A total of 8,300 Saudi post-secondary students were told to pull out of Canada. Flights to Canada by the Saudi-owned airline were cancelled.
"It was a very big surprise. I get that they were upset about the tweet, but to react the way they did, it was a serious overreaction," Horak says.
No backing down
While King Salman is still in charge in Saudi Arabia, it is Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman, or MBS as he is known, who seems to be the de facto leader.
He is known as someone who digs in, so backing down from this battle seems unlikely — there are no outward signs that's happening, as he and his officials continue to slam Canada. In an interview with Bloomberg last week, for example, MBS continued to insist Canada overreached.

© Horak family Horak, his wife Sally and their children mark Christmas outside Riyadh in the 'red sands' desert region during his first posting in the Kingdom.
"They have to know they have made a mistake. I believe they know that they have made a mistake, but we will see how we can get things back again."
At the UN lin September during an interview with the Council on Foreign Relations, Adel Al Jubeir, the Saudi Foreign Minister, accused Canada of treating the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (KSA) like a banana republic. "You can talk to us about human rights anytime you want, we'd be happy to have that conversation like we do with all our allies, but lecturing us? No way. Not going to happen."
You can hear the minister's indignation in this clip:
Watching that same video, Horak periodically nods.
"He's right. I mean, the American State Department issues a human rights report every year, the British parliament does raise issues every now and then, but they both have very strong relationships with Saudi Arabia. And so it can survive some of those public dressing-downs in ways that we were more vulnerable to," he says.
He explains the Saudis believed Canada was targeting their public at a time of volatility. While some of the reforms — women driving, the introduction of public cinemas, etc. — are proving popular with the Saudi people, other elements "are not happy with reforms and feel that perhaps Saudi Arabia is being too compliant with Western demands," he says.
"This would give them ammunition to say, 'see, look, we are being pushed around by the West, they're now demanding our judicial system do X, Y and Z.'"
Horak says he wasn't surprised that no other country came out publicly in support of Canada. How could it be worth the risk for them, he asks.
But should Canada apologize, as the Saudis suggest?
No, he says. But he thinks this rift might be fixable.
"It begins with the decision, do we care? Do we want a relationship? And that decision needs to be taken first — and then figure out if we care, how do we get there," he says.
"But do we want it? I don't know."
'You have to have your voice heard'
So, what did the Minister of Foreign Affairs or the Prime Minister have to say to Horak once he was expelled? What questions did they have? What are their thoughts about how to go forward? What did he advise?
Well, it's complicated.
What was his conversation like with the minister? "I haven't spoken to her," he says.
Did she not take his call? "I just didn't speak with her. I spoke with her staff and I spoke with staff at GAC [Global Affairs Canada], and I was there for a couple days after as we were trying to assess the impact. But no, I didn't speak personally to the Minister or the Prime Minister."

With diplomacy in his DNA, he explains it's not really traditional in Canada for ambassadors to have those direct conversations.
Nor is it his sense that Canada's attempt to push for the release of Samar or Raif Badawi would have moved the Saudis to show leniency towards the activists.
"It certainly wouldn't help them."
Conversely, he's careful to say that he doesn't think the jailed activists would be punished for Canada's tweet. Those who did take notice of the message were human rights groups. They were full of praise.
Canada, effectively going it alone, also publicly owned its call to issue the tweet. That's telling to Horak.
"It seems to me the applause the government has gotten from Amnesty International and other organizations is something that's welcome by the government, and perhaps rightly so. And perhaps that's what's driving it," he offered.
"I wonder sometimes, personally, what constituency we're playing to on some of these issues."
Is the applause of some worth as much as a relationship with Saudi Arabia?
"In my view, no … we can have an influence in that country."
He adds that he's "under no illusions" that the influence would necessarily be huge, but says, "We were normally pushing on an open door in Saudi Arabia. We did some programs, for example, as part of the Vision 2030 program, which is their main reform program."
Horak is careful to say his criticisms aren't political. He is just as frustrated with how the Harper Government handled Iran. He was thrown out of that posting too, when Canada cut ties. That came after Canada passed the Justice of Victims of Terrorism Act.

"That sounds great, but when you have a law that allows you to start seizing Iranian government territories in Canada, which this law does allow, there's no way we could be in Iran anymore."
Having no official relationship with either country, he says, accomplishes little except for hammering a principle.
"Whether we like what they are doing or not is not really the issue. If you want these changes to happen, you have to have your voice heard … you have to engage them. And we didn't do that."
These are opportunities lost for Canada, he maintains.
Life now for Horak is about finding a new path; perhaps some writing or analysis.
And it's about quietly dealing with the oddity of being tossed out of an ambassadorial posting, again. All his belongings in Saudi Arabia were packed up by staff and sent back to Canada, and he's certainly not able to go back one last time. Persona non grata is the official term, "skunk at the party" is his.

 

[EagleSmack]

"I think we took a step too far," he told CBC's The National during an interview at his brother's Toronto home.

"Whether we can come back from that, I don't know … But we need to begin deciding, do we want this? Do we want to salvage this relationship or not?"




Scathing!



Trudeau should be ashamed of himself. He may have permanently damaged Canada's reputation worldwide.





Canadians have started to take the Canadian flag patches off their back packs and luggage when they travel overseas.

 

[Curious Cdn]

"I think we took a step too far," he told CBC's The National during an interview at his brother's Toronto home.
"Whether we can come back from that, I don't know … But we need to begin deciding, do we want this? Do we want to salvage this relationship or not?"
Scathing!
Trudeau should be ashamed of himself. He may have permanently damaged Canada's reputation worldwide.
Canadians have started to take the Canadian flag patches off their back packs and luggage when they travel overseas.

Sure they have.

How about Americans? They're just as likely to stitch maple leaf flags to their back packs, lest they end up as hostages somewhere. They sure as shyte do 't wapear stars and stripes when they travel, unless they,'re in camp and carrying an M-16. You think that the Saudis like you guys? ... even a tiny bit?

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Saudi crown prince ordered operation to lure and then detain Post contributor Jamal Khashoggi, U.S. intelligence shows

The intelligence pointing to an operation to detain Khashoggi in Saudi Arabia has fueled speculation by officials and analysts in multiple countries that what transpired at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul was a backup plan to capture Khashoggi that may have gone wrong.

Turkish officials have said that the journalist, a critic of the crown prince, was killed at the consulate by a Saudi security team that flew into Istanbul.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...1fe9c7f&wpisrc=al_news__alert-national&wpmk=1

 

[MHz]

Rather than 'gone wrong' it was a clear signal that you are not safe anywhere. They did have to do it on 'their ground' if that means anything. Hopefully he spilled his guts on tape before being killed. RIP

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Rather than 'gone wrong' it was a clear signal that you are not safe anywhere. They did have to do it on 'their ground' if that means anything. Hopefully he spilled his guts on tape before being killed. RIP

It is just SOOOO BARBARIC It is also about what POWER does to some people. (if you can call them human.

Heart wrenching horrific. ..

RIP.......

 

[EagleSmack]

How about Americans? They're just as likely to stitch maple leaf flags to their back packs, lest they end up as hostages somewhere.

That's a myth created by Canadians, for Canadians who have an inferiority complex like you.

They sure as shyte do 't wapear stars and stripes when they travel,

What do they wapear then?


*snicker*

unless they,'re in camp and carrying an M-16.

M-16's? The 70's called and wants their old weapons back.

You think that the Saudis like you guys? ... even a tiny bit?

Just another deflection because the Saudis embarrassed your PM. They would never have come out forcefully against the U.S or any EU nation. Trudeau punched way above his weight and it was a reality check for you wasn't it?

 

[Danbones]

Haha, The pie minister.

Oooooops.

It our own fault.
WE, the voters, told him to nut up and face the world like a man.

 

[Curious Cdn]

That's a myth created by Canadians, for Canadians who have an inferiority complex like you.
What do they wapear then?
*snicker*
M-16's? The 70's called and wants their old weapons back.
Just another deflection because the Saudis embarrassed your PM. They would never have come out forcefully against the U.S or any EU nation. Trudeau punched way above his weight and it was a reality check for you wasn't it?

The Saudis have made your political leaders dance like marionettes to their tune, one leader after another going back into the early 1970s. It's embarrassing to watch one President after another grovel to those pumped up tribal chieftans.

They own your asses ... every one of you.

 

[EagleSmack]

The Saudis have made your political leaders dance like marionettes to their tune, one leader after another going back into the early 1970s. It's embarrassing to watch one President after another grovel to those pumped up tribal chieftans.

They own your asses ... every one of you.

I think you are a little too salty that the Saudi Prince has the Canadian Prime Minister groveling.




Canada Extends Olive Branch to Saudi Arabia After Diplomatic Blowout


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-for-un-meeting-with-saudis-after-rights-spat





Ex-envoy to Riyadh says Canada’s mistakes sparked diplomatic row with Saudi Arabia


http://globalnews.ca/news/4535079/canada-saudi-diplomatic-spat-dennis-horak/




Yet another of Trudeau's disasters.

 

[Curious Cdn]

I think you are a little too salty that the Saudi Prince has the Canadian Prime Minister groveling.
Canada Extends Olive Branch to Saudi Arabia After Diplomatic Blowout
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-for-un-meeting-with-saudis-after-rights-spat
Ex-envoy to Riyadh says Canada’s mistakes sparked diplomatic row with Saudi Arabia
http://globalnews.ca/news/4535079/canada-saudi-diplomatic-spat-dennis-horak/
Yet another of Trudeau's disasters.

Who cares what the vile savages think of us.

http://lfpress.com/news/world/pro-saudi-twitter-account-posts-image-of-plane-flying-toward-cn-tower

 

[pgs]

Who cares what the vile savages think of us.

http://lfpress.com/news/world/pro-saudi-twitter-account-posts-image-of-plane-flying-toward-cn-tower

Racist much . How enlightening.

 

[Curious Cdn]

Racist much . How enlightening.

Do YOU think that the Saudi princes are your friends?

Most Arabs don't.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

The Saudis have made your political leaders dance like marionettes to their tune, one leader after another going back into the early 1970s. It's embarrassing to watch one President after another grovel to those pumped up tribal chieftans.

They own your asses ... every one of you.

And it is known what they do if you cross them. The "prince has a very thin skin....( something likethe infantile Trump ) and reacts with a brutality not seen in a while.......
Trump as much as admitted that they were bound to the various contracts ( MILITARY) in place.........which are worth billions.if not trillions. Trump sold his soul to the MONEY devil long ago..........and now continues to sell the US soul (IF it has one) to the savages.

and the world knows how trump feels about reporters. (enemy of the people )........so he and the "prince " have a lot in common. both are ruthless. as it fits them personally.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Virgin��s Richard Branson, tech investor Steve Case distance themselves from Saudi Arabia in light of alleged Khashoggi killing

Branson announced Thursday he would suspend participation in two tourism projects in Saudi Arabia as well as discussions over a Saudi investment in his space companies. Case said he would suspend participation in a major Saudi investment conference later this month as well as in a tourism project.

Several media organizations said earlier they would not participate in the conference after Turkish officials said that Saudi Arabia orchestrated the killing of Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi in the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...y/business__alert-world--alert-economy&wpmk=1

 

[pgs]

And it is known what they do if you cross them. The "prince has a very thin skin....( something likethe infantile Trump ) and reacts with a brutality not seen in a while.......
Trump as much as admitted that they were bound to the various contracts ( MILITARY) in place.........which are worth billions.if not trillions. Trump sold his soul to the MONEY devil long ago..........and now continues to sell the US soul (IF it has one) to the savages.

and the world knows how trump feels about reporters. (enemy of the people )........so he and the "prince " have a lot in common. both are ruthless. as it fits them personally.

Another racist calling another race savages . Funny their next door neighbors are just war torn refugees looking for a better life . Same race , same religion.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Pulitzer-winning reporter explains how Saudis are keeping Trump’s failing hotels open

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/10/pu...ng-hotels-open/?utm_source=push_notifications


Shady deals with Russia AND SA.

No wonder Trump has little appetite to deal with the prince