Right Wing Bigotry From Alberta

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bluealberta

Council Member
Apr 19, 2005
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Dervish_Khan said:
No matter how much the federal government tries to portray a rosy and colourful image of Canada, racism, anti-immigration, intolerance, and bigotry are still very much present in Canada, with Alberta topping the chart. :eek:

Bull crap. The vast majority of easterners who come to Alberta and stay for any length of time understand the issues in Alberta and support them. There are always some, no doubt, who cling to that socialist wonderland theory, and yes, they will not fit in living in Alberta. We have no patience for those who will not help themselves, and are always looking for the government for help. This is why the Rev is wrong, too, because after these new people have been here for a while, they understand and agree with the grievances Albertans have, and want to be part of the solution. However, being marginalized by the rest of Canada only reinforces what they have learned by living in Alberta, and stiffens their resolve against eastern Canada, which for some of them is where they came from. Don't blame the players, blame the game.
 

Dervish_Khan

New Member
May 7, 2005
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BlueAlberta,

Greetings to you!

I utterly comprehend the reason for your emotional response. Let me, however, make it clear that I have absolutely no intention to criticise or disparage the fellow residents of Alberta. But the facts are obvious and explicit: racism is a daily occurance in Canada. And unless responsible citizens raise their voices and work hard to tackle this social problem in a conscientious manner, this dilemma shall persist. It is, thus, imperative that the root- causes of racism and intolerance be addressed. This will, in turn, allow us to demonstrate to the entire world how numerous views, cultures, and colours can co-exist in an exquisite manner.

As for conservatism, I have absolutely no problems with that so long as it does not pave the way for hatred or alienation of a certain group of people. I understand that people can have strong traditional beliefs that they may want to protect and pass on, for I, myself am quite traditional in some aspects. So, the problem is not attributed to the people who intend to comply with their religious or cultural beliefs.
Rather, the problem stems from either implicitly imposing your views on others or expecting them to assimilate into your culture.

JUST LET PEOPLE LIVE FREELY!

Thanks,
Dervish
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
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RE: Right Wing Bigotry Fr

Ralph got more seats than he did a percentage of the popular vote. The Conservatives got more seats federally than the popular vote reflected. That is especially true in Saskatchewan and Alberta. Keep that in mind the next time you decide to bitch about the "democratic deficit".

I never said that the liberalization of Alberta would be fast, Blue. Some of us are capable of thinking further ahead than the next election though. If you look at my posts, actually read them, you'll find I'm talking in decades. It is a pattern that has been documented over decades, even centuries. Higher population concentrations increase liberalism. Higher immigration rates, especially from more liberal areas, increase liberalism.

Jump up and down and yell and scream if you want to, but your population is growing and most of that growth is fuelled by people moving in from elsewhere.
 

bluealberta

Council Member
Apr 19, 2005
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Re: RE: Right Wing Bigotry Fr

Reverend Blair said:
Ralph got more seats than he did a percentage of the popular vote. The Conservatives got more seats federally than the popular vote reflected. That is especially true in Saskatchewan and Alberta. Keep that in mind the next time you decide to bitch about the "democratic deficit".

I never said that the liberalization of Alberta would be fast, Blue. Some of us are capable of thinking further ahead than the next election though. If you look at my posts, actually read them, you'll find I'm talking in decades. It is a pattern that has been documented over decades, even centuries. Higher population concentrations increase liberalism. Higher immigration rates, especially from more liberal areas, increase liberalism.

Jump up and down and yell and scream if you want to, but your population is growing and most of that growth is fuelled by people moving in from elsewhere.

And I know that change occurs over decades as well. However, we in Alberta look at this as the opportunity to show those of liberal bent the error of their ways and to go from the dark side to the side of milk and honey :p

Given that, the previous Alberta government was Social Credit for a huge number of years (sorry I don't have the exact number) who could hardly be accused of being left wing. The conservatives have been in power since the early 70's, so they right has been in power for decades now. The last election, Ralph was probably at his most vulnerable, and still won a massive majority. You miss the main point, and that is once people get to Alberta, they generally buy into the culture and social aspects of Alberta due to the vast majority of benefits available in this province due to the good fiscal management of the right. This is even after granting teachers and nurses virtually everything they asked for in the last round of negotiations for each group in this province. Your premise that the more people move to an area the more liberal the area becomes may be true when they move to a liberal area, but over the years here, I think it can be said that once people move to Alberta and experience the benefits of the conservative culture, the more they appreciate it and agree with it. And your mention of the NEP is something that will not go away for generations to come. It was an outright rape of one area of the country, pure and simple. People lost jobs, businessess, homes, and even lives due to that piece of crap. And I don't care if you believe me or not, I was in a job that was influenced by the NEP, and have first hand knowledge of everything I mentioned above. Do not insult and disrespect those individuals who lost everything by sayingthat the NEP was justified. Was not then, and if something similar is attempted now (read carbon tax) it will not be tolerated again. The NEP is the reason the liberals will never be in power in Edmonton for at least the next two generations, assuming Canada is still together in two generations.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
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Winnipeg
Given that, the previous Alberta government was Social Credit for a huge number of years (sorry I don't have the exact number) who could hardly be accused of being left wing. The conservatives have been in power since the early 70's, so they right has been in power for decades now.

Check the dates...it's all been conservative all the time. SoCreds too. They were taken over pretty quickly. Look at your history though. You shifted with Leduc and you shifted a little further with the NEP.

Don't feed us all that crap about the NEP either. You had a sure market for your oil, just not at OPEC prices and you had to sell it in Canada. Oh, boo hoo. There were plenty of Canadians who went broke because of the energy crisis and plenty more who would have if it hadn't of been for the NEP. I know that your cowboy culture glorifies truckers, for instance...

More than that though, the feds pours tons of money into Alberta. The tar sands, pipelines, r&d money. That's my frigging tax money, Blue. I'm still paying interest on some of it. I expect a return on the investment. Pure business. You claim to understand that business thing.

The last election, Ralph was probably at his most vulnerable, and still won a massive majority.

The seats he got were a lot more massive than the popular vote, and a lot of people never voted at all.

You miss the main point, and that is once people get to Alberta, they generally buy into the culture and social aspects of Alberta due to the vast majority of benefits available in this province due to the good fiscal management of the right.

I've talked to a lot of people who feel very differently. That might explain the democratic deficit I mentioned above.

This is even after granting teachers and nurses virtually everything they asked for in the last round of negotiations for each group in this province.

He had to or they wouldn't work for him. Then his attempts to destroy Canadian health care would be all for naught.

Your premise that the more people move to an area the more liberal the area becomes may be true when they move to a liberal area, but over the years here, I think it can be said that once people move to Alberta and experience the benefits of the conservative culture, the more they appreciate it and agree with it.

Fine, ignore history. Ignore demographics. Politics has nothing to do with traditions or advertising after all. Oh wait...those are the foundations of politics.

And your mention of the NEP is something that will not go away for generations to come.

Less than half of your population lived in Alberta when the NEP was in force. Many of your recent arrivals have families who benefitted from the NEP. That number swings a little more in the favour of the rest of Canada every day.

It was an outright rape of one area of the country, pure and simple.

It was a recognition that you are as much a part of this country...and need to contribute as such...as anything else. You keep demanding a political voice, yet your main political rallying cry is how the rest of Canada screwed you.

People lost jobs, businessess, homes, and even lives due to that piece of crap.

Why? Because they only got paid a good chunk more than before? Nobody took anything from you. You had to sell at less than an inflated value, but you were still making more than before.

You wanna know the really funny thing? The whole thing was brought on by the US reaching their peak oil. You guys are still denying that peak oil scenarios are possible and still trying to be more American.

At the time there was talk about you joining OPEC. Now you stand against OPEC and support racial profiling, which discrimiates against the citizens of OPEC nations.



And I don't care if you believe me or not, I was in a job that was influenced by the NEP, and have first hand knowledge of everything I mentioned above. Do not insult and disrespect those individuals who lost everything by sayingthat the NEP was justified.

Ooops, too late. Lots of people lost their jobs then though. You blame it the NEP, others blame it on the NEP not being strict enough. Truckers at the time bitched about everything from grade rates to the railroads. The railroads blamed the farmers, the Crow rate, and the lack of auto sales. You want me to go on with this? Likely not.

Was not then, and if something similar is attempted now (read carbon tax) it will not be tolerated again.

What carbon tax?

The NEP is the reason the liberals will never be in power in Edmonton for at least the next two generations, assuming Canada is still together in two generations.

I knew you could get back to the subject. Don't come whining to me when your riding goes NDP. Read some history instead.
 

bluealberta

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Apr 19, 2005
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Here are some of the reasons why Alberta will not be liberal for a very long time, if at all, in addition to the NEP, which, despite what the Rev says, was a direct attack on Alberta. No other province has ever had to accept less than world prices for their products. No other province, or region, has ever had to pay the freight charges on raw products to the manufacturers, and then pay the freight back on the finished products. No other province has been the continuing target of slurs and lies and attacks by the Liberals over the years. No other province has been attacked on health care, in spite of the fact that many provinces have a lot of private clinics. And no other province gets slammed by federal ministers over health care while espousing something different. To back it up, here are a few quotes:

Paul Martin: "In terms of private delivery, I think it has got to be judged on a case-by-case basis...The fact is, a substantial portion of our system is already privately delivered."

Anne McLellan: "Look at hospitals. Do you care what the corporate structure of that hospital is, as long as when you present your health care, your stay in the hospital and your treatment is paid for by a public-administered health-care system?"

Pierre Pettigrew: "If some provinces want to experiment with private delivery options, my view is that as long as provinces respect the single, public payer, we should be examining these efforts and then compare notes between the provinces."

Jean Lapierre: "How many activities in the health system could be performed at a better cost by the private sector? Why should we accept these exclusive areas for the public sector?"

All Liberals, all tacitly endorsing private health care. Yet when they come to Alberta, it is one drive by smear after another. This is the party the NDP, who fanatically support public health, have chosen to align themselves with. Makes you wonder who has the real hidden agenda, as opposed to the unfounded hidden agenda the conservatives are accused of having. Makes you wonder who the real enemies of the publice health care system are. Makes you wonder how anyone could support such hypocrites and liars.
 

I think not

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Apr 12, 2005
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Speaking of health care bluealberta, I haven't forgotten you. I'm still painstakingly going through the Romanow report, 400 pages!!! Just to use as a frame of reference.
 

bluealberta

Council Member
Apr 19, 2005
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I think not said:
Speaking of health care bluealberta, I haven't forgotten you. I'm still painstakingly going through the Romanow report, 400 pages!!! Just to use as a frame of reference.

Hey, thanks, looking forward to it. Hope it's not too mind numbing!!
 

bluealberta

Council Member
Apr 19, 2005
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bluealberta said:
Here are some of the reasons why Alberta will not be liberal for a very long time, if at all, in addition to the NEP, which, despite what the Rev says, was a direct attack on Alberta. No other province has ever had to accept less than world prices for their products. No other province, or region, has ever had to pay the freight charges on raw products to the manufacturers, and then pay the freight back on the finished products. No other province has been the continuing target of slurs and lies and attacks by the Liberals over the years. No other province has been attacked on health care, in spite of the fact that many provinces have a lot of private clinics. And no other province gets slammed by federal ministers over health care while espousing something different. To back it up, here are a few quotes:

Paul Martin: "In terms of private delivery, I think it has got to be judged on a case-by-case basis...The fact is, a substantial portion of our system is already privately delivered."

Anne McLellan: "Look at hospitals. Do you care what the corporate structure of that hospital is, as long as when you present your health care, your stay in the hospital and your treatment is paid for by a public-administered health-care system?"

Pierre Pettigrew: "If some provinces want to experiment with private delivery options, my view is that as long as provinces respect the single, public payer, we should be examining these efforts and then compare notes between the provinces."

Jean Lapierre: "How many activities in the health system could be performed at a better cost by the private sector? Why should we accept these exclusive areas for the public sector?"

All Liberals, all tacitly endorsing private health care. Yet when they come to Alberta, it is one drive by smear after another. This is the party the NDP, who fanatically support public health, have chosen to align themselves with. Makes you wonder who has the real hidden agenda, as opposed to the unfounded hidden agenda the conservatives are accused of having. Makes you wonder who the real enemies of the publice health care system are. Makes you wonder how anyone could support such hypocrites and liars.

No responses?
 

Vanni Fucci

Senate Member
Dec 26, 2004
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the-brights.net
bluealberta said:
bluealberta said:
Here are some of the reasons why Alberta will not be liberal for a very long time, if at all, in addition to the NEP, which, despite what the Rev says, was a direct attack on Alberta. No other province has ever had to accept less than world prices for their products. No other province, or region, has ever had to pay the freight charges on raw products to the manufacturers, and then pay the freight back on the finished products. No other province has been the continuing target of slurs and lies and attacks by the Liberals over the years. No other province has been attacked on health care, in spite of the fact that many provinces have a lot of private clinics. And no other province gets slammed by federal ministers over health care while espousing something different. To back it up, here are a few quotes:

Paul Martin: "In terms of private delivery, I think it has got to be judged on a case-by-case basis...The fact is, a substantial portion of our system is already privately delivered."

Anne McLellan: "Look at hospitals. Do you care what the corporate structure of that hospital is, as long as when you present your health care, your stay in the hospital and your treatment is paid for by a public-administered health-care system?"

Pierre Pettigrew: "If some provinces want to experiment with private delivery options, my view is that as long as provinces respect the single, public payer, we should be examining these efforts and then compare notes between the provinces."

Jean Lapierre: "How many activities in the health system could be performed at a better cost by the private sector? Why should we accept these exclusive areas for the public sector?"

All Liberals, all tacitly endorsing private health care. Yet when they come to Alberta, it is one drive by smear after another. This is the party the NDP, who fanatically support public health, have chosen to align themselves with. Makes you wonder who has the real hidden agenda, as opposed to the unfounded hidden agenda the conservatives are accused of having. Makes you wonder who the real enemies of the publice health care system are. Makes you wonder how anyone could support such hypocrites and liars.

No responses?

Yeah...Liberals are nothing but Conservatives in cheaper suits... :p
 

bluealberta

Council Member
Apr 19, 2005
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Re: RE: Right Wing Bigotry Fr

Vanni Fucci said:
bluealberta said:
Only if you want totally unaccountable, expensive, and irresponsible health care.

...and you know this how, exactly?

Past history of provinces that are fiscally unattainable, which they can make because they are fully aware they will never have to follow through with it.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
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Winnipeg
RE: Right Wing Bigotry Fr

He doesn't know anything, Vanni. What he's counting on is his present financial situation providing him with the means to buy private insurance. Of course policies much like Harper's have destroyed the middle class all over the world, leaving them without those means. Blue, and those like him, refuse to look at the real facts though.
 

bluealberta

Council Member
Apr 19, 2005
2,004
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Proud to be in Alberta
Re: RE: Right Wing Bigotry Fr

Reverend Blair said:
He doesn't know anything, Vanni. What he's counting on is his present financial situation providing him with the means to buy private insurance. Of course policies much like Harper's have destroyed the middle class all over the world, leaving them without those means. Blue, and those like him, refuse to look at the real facts though.

My present financial status is very much middle class, the ones you have described elsewhere as the rich class. Which is it, destroyed or rich. 8O :?
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: Right Wing Bigotry Fr

That's because if you are middle class, you are rich, Blue. Look around at all we have just because we are middle class. It's a very precarious kind of rich though and it's disappearing. You'll be poor in no time if you keep voting the way you do.
 

bluealberta

Council Member
Apr 19, 2005
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Re: RE: Right Wing Bigotry Fr

Reverend Blair said:
That's because if you are middle class, you are rich, Blue. Look around at all we have just because we are middle class. It's a very precarious kind of rich though and it's disappearing. You'll be poor in no time if you keep voting the way you do.
:

lol: :lol: :lol: Well, calling me rich would be quite a stretch. But hey, thanks. Actually, Ive pretty much voted the same way my entire voting life, provincially and federally, so if you are saying I am rich, I guess I had better keep voting the same way. :wink: Maybe if we can get a conservative federal government to match the provincial federal government I can be REALLY RICH :p
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: Right Wing Bigotry Fr

Nah, you'll just be an Amerikan.

I've been voting the same way all my life too, Blue. Since I do consider myself rich (though that likely has more to do with having seen what poverty looks like than the measures you use) it could easily be argued that we'd all be better off with an NDP government in Ottawa.
 
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