Right Wing Bigotry From Alberta

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jamie

Electoral Member
Oct 22, 2004
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Of course you wouldn't see the CBC as being biased, Vanni, your the same way.

If you don't notice biased in the media of both countries, you need to open your eyes a little wider, and close your mouth a little longer....watch and listen....
 

Chake99

Nominee Member
Mar 26, 2005
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Everything is biased. Just acknowledge that when you watch something and try to sort the facts from the skewed conclusions.

BTW from my experience the CBC is slightly left-wing biased, and I consider myself central left-wing.

Not that I think there is anything wrong with CBC...

But there is also a lot more right-wing bias around than left...
 

Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
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Re: RE: Right Wing Bigotry From Alberta

fubbleskag said:
two things:

1) left or right, everyone in this thread disgusts me on a primal level purely based on your intolerance of the opposition simply because they are your opposition.

2) there are no cowboys in calgary; there aren't even calgarians in calgary. less than 10% of the population of this city was born here, and less than 50% born in alberta.

Yup, lived there for 10 yrs myself, born in Ottawa, here now. Loved the live wrestling at the flea market. :D
 

bluealberta

Council Member
Apr 19, 2005
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Have read most of the posts, and am amazed at the lack of knowledge of some folks. The claims about Alberta only doing well because of gas and oil is one I and others like me particularly like. The facts are that the people in Alberta developed the gas and oil on their own. Give credit where credit is due. By the way, Saskatchewan also has abundant resources (you don't really think the gas and oil ends at the border, do you?) so why are they a have not province? They had the same opportunities....oh yeah, forgot, the NDP basically ran them into the ground. As far as the claims of dog food eating, non-affordable housing, etc., while I am certain there are cases of this, it is not widespread, and probably less here than anywhere else in Canada. Part of the reason for the lack of housing is due to the massive influx of people coming to Alberta because of the opportunities here as opposed to some of the other provinces.

What really makes some of us very frustrated is that fact that we and Ontario pay all the bills for this country, but we get absolutely no thanks, just a bunch of redneck references, etc. Do the math: the federal surplus (at least the one they claim) is less than what Alberta puts into the federal treasury. Think what would happen if Alberta did not have massive transfer payments to Canada? How long do you think Ontario would stand for funding the entire country? Could you even call it a country at that point?

Regarding politics, there was one post earlier where the point was made that the vast majority of conservatives are not opposed to same sex unions, but are opposed to changing the traditional definition of marriage. Reflects my position exactly. For the record, some of my friends over the years have been gay, and I have worked with many gay people over the years for whom I have great respect. The fact is that same sex unions do have the same benefits as traditionally married people, so what is the reason to be called married? As far as the churches go, yes, they have been told that they do not have to marry gays in the church, but no one from the government has ever denied that churches who do not marry gays will have their tax exempt status revoked. Until I hear or read that from this government, I will have my doubts about their claims of not interfering with churches.

Just because I and many others in the West are conservative does not make us all the names we have been called in earlier posts. Most of us tend to take a live and let live outlook, as long as you don't try to force something on us (read: useless gun registry). And no, I do not own a gun, but have in the past for pest control. We do not run down others for simply disagreeing with us, and we do not resort to name calling when others disagree with us. I cannot say the same for the left, which continually insults and degrades anyone on the right. We are not wild eyed fundamentalist religious types, in general, and would like to become appreciated from the rest of the country. Unfortunately, we seem to be seen primarily as a wallet to fund many things that really are not a priority, say like: National Daycare, Gun Registry, Legalizing Pot, Legalizing Prostitution, Ad Firms in Quebec, Same Sex Marriage, etc. Just give us good government with lower costs, and we will be extremely happy to continue to work as hard as presently do to assist the rest of Canada.
 

Chake99

Nominee Member
Mar 26, 2005
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You seem to be under the delusion that repealing laws costs money. How would legalizing pot steal albertan money? It would make the federal less dependant on you guys for one thing if the federal government monopolized it.

I can see how could argue for the SS marriage costing money (more marriages=more paperwork) but its tiny besides what equality is worth.

However I agree the money that is continuosly pumped into Quebec is embarrassing, as is the fact that the Federal government managed to lose money while doing Gun Registry (registration fees should cover it)

BTW the NDP can't manage economics for shit, or so it seemed last time they were in power here.

And forgive us if we are not going to trust the Conservatives but they have a habit of running other provinces into the ground. And thus we assume Alberta isn't because of the oil and gas. In Ontario it goes like this--
--Liberals hated
--Conservatives elected
--conservatives fund massive tax cuts with selling social programs
--Conservatives liked
--Conservatives reelected
-- Conservatives cut social programs
--Conservatives hated
-- Liberals elected only to find that there is a huge deficit from Conservative tax cuts that were only covered the first year by sales.
 

bluealberta

Council Member
Apr 19, 2005
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I'm under no delusions about repealing any laws. What laws? Pot is not legal, so there is nothing to repeal. Having friends in the police business, they have told me that the pot today is so different that past years, due to being laced with other drugs (like meth) to make it more addictive. To paraphrase, "this is not your father's dope". (Sorry).

As far as SS goes, equality has absolutely nothing to do with it because the rights of same sex civil unions are the same as that of traditional marriages, no more, no less. Please do not blur this issue. Too often in this country we are prepared to simply throw away traditions for no reason, something that I feel has taken this country down the wrong path. I am not opposed to change, but I am certainly opposed to change simply for change sakes.

One other thing I have noticed in reading other threads on this site, and that forms part of the issues we in the West have, is there appears to be some hypocrisy regarding the Constituition. On one hand, many liberals or left-wing types name the Const as the reason for SS marriage, due to so-called equality and rights issues, but on the other hand, totally reject the use of the NW clause. The NW clause is part of the Const for a very good reason, and was agreed to by a liberal, Trudeau. I also note several comments on many threads about health care being turned into a "Provincial toy". Here's another little ditty: Health care, according to the Const is a provincial responsibility, not federal. However, over the years, too many Liberal govts have intervened to where many now think that Health Care is a federal responsibility. It simply is not. If you are going to use the Const to support one argument, you cannot ignore the rest of it.

You will say that I am doing the same thing regarding SS marriage. No, as the rights given to same sex unions are the same as traditional marriage, as previously noted. Therefore, by definition, this cannot be a "rights or equality" issue, because these same rights already exist. Please tell me why marriage cannot be reserved for a traditional union between a man and a woman, and some other phrase, currently known as a civil union, be used for any and all other unions? Why cannot those of us who want to preserve the definition of traditional marriage, who appear to be in the majority according to all the recent polls, have this maintained for our satisfaction and benefit? Is it absolutely necessary that the majority continually bend to the demands of the minority, and in some cases, the very small minority?
 

Vanni Fucci

Senate Member
Dec 26, 2004
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bluealberta said:
You will say that I am doing the same thing regarding SS marriage. No, as the rights given to same sex unions are the same as traditional marriage, as previously noted. Therefore, by definition, this cannot be a "rights or equality" issue, because these same rights already exist. Please tell me why marriage cannot be reserved for a traditional union between a man and a woman, and some other phrase, currently known as a civil union, be used for any and all other unions? Why cannot those of us who want to preserve the definition of traditional marriage, who appear to be in the majority according to all the recent polls, have this maintained for our satisfaction and benefit? Is it absolutely necessary that the majority continually bend to the demands of the minority, and in some cases, the very small minority?

Do they teach this type of institutionalized bigotry in the schools in Alberta?

Canada has realized that discriminating against same sex couples was wrong all along...so why should special concessions be made to accomodate what amounts to your homophobic view that allowing gays to marry will somehow diminish previous marriages?

Twist and turn it however you like, but it's bigotry, and it's wrong, and those of us who believe in equality for all will not stand for it...
 

bluealberta

Council Member
Apr 19, 2005
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As usual, the response from the left is to resort to name calling and insults, without any kind of logical justification. I know from personal experience that the gay people I workwith, associate with, and respect, do not think of me as a bigot, and some of these fine individuals think the whole SS marriage issue is a non-starter for them and other members of the gay community. However, if you, who do not know me at all, wish to think of me in that way in order to justify your inability to provide any kind of reasoned respond to my opinions and facts, so be it.

Your comment about education in Alberta is very telling. Your comments on this and other threads on this site show a clearly intolerant view of Albertans, yet you have no hestitation in declaring me a bigot without any justification. Your hypocrisy is showing very clearly. By the way, the majority of Canadians, as indicated by every recent poll, are against changing the traditional definition of marriage, but not against same sex unions, a postion I support and agree with. This has been a compromise postion I have taken, yet you, who are presumably a member of the tolerant left, has absolutely no tolerance for any opposing opinion, and appears to be unable to enter into any kind of reasoned discussion about it.

Just a final question, as you have not disputed my position that same sex unions have the same rights and benefits as traditional marriages have, why is any concession needed? What is to be gained that has not already been gained, other than to change a tradition that many of us wish to preserve? If you honestly think that is the definition of a bigot, then I suggest that you review the defintion of bigot. I do not fear gays, I work and associate with gays, I have had friends in other commnities in the past who were members of the gay community, and at one place of employment, a gay co-worker recommended me for a promotion, which I received. I know I have no way or providing you proof of this, but it is true. If this is what you think a bigot and homophobe is, then I suggest that you have a problem that you may wish to address.

BTW, is not the title of this thread intolerant and bigotted?
 

Vanni Fucci

Senate Member
Dec 26, 2004
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It seems they also teach the fine art of obfuscation in your school system as well...

And how would your position on same gender marriage be any different than forcing Muslims, for instance, to use different public washrooms than Christians...

In fact, let's not stop there, let's make all different religions use different bathrooms than Christians, so as to preserve the sanctity of the traditional definition of bathroom for Christians alone...

Your position was championed by the homophobic religious right, and while you may not be homophobic, you support their cause, and this makes you party to their bigotry despite what feelings you may or may not have toward the gay community...

I will admit though, that this issue has been professionally spun, and I can see where it might get confusing...but one must look at the issue objectively will realize that granting gays the right to marry is the only way to ensure equality...
 

bluealberta

Council Member
Apr 19, 2005
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Where on earth did that leap of logic come from? It is certainly not just the Christian community which wishes to preserve the traditional defintion of marriage, as shown quite clearly at the recent press conference by the immigration minister. In any event, your using the use of bathrooms as an analogy for SS marriage is bizarre, to say the least. You simply prove my point in that the extreme left is far more exclusionary than you claim the right to be. Thank you for making this very clear yet again.

BTW, what about the other points in my original post? You seem to fixate only on the SS issue, yet so many other issues were raised.
 

Chake99

Nominee Member
Mar 26, 2005
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Just a final question, as you have not disputed my position that same sex unions have the same rights and benefits as traditional marriages have, why is any concession needed? What is to be gained that has not already been gained, other than to change a tradition that many of us wish to preserve?

Because it is unfair to differentiate between them, Unions and marriages are not for different reasons or anything.

Or so they say, I haven't bought either argument yet.
 

Vanni Fucci

Senate Member
Dec 26, 2004
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bluealberta said:
Where on earth did that leap of logic come from? It is certainly not just the Christian community which wishes to preserve the traditional defintion of marriage, as shown quite clearly at the recent press conference by the immigration minister. In any event, your using the use of bathrooms as an analogy for SS marriage is bizarre, to say the least. You simply prove my point in that the extreme left is far more exclusionary than you claim the right to be. Thank you for making this very clear yet again.

BTW, what about the other points in my original post? You seem to fixate only on the SS issue, yet so many other issues were raised.

How about you stop being so goddamn confrontational, and think for a moment, alright.

analogy

n 1: an inference that if things agree in some respects they probably agree in others 2: drawing a comparison in order to show a similarity in some respect; "the operation of a computer presents and interesting analogy to the working of the brain"; "the models show by analogy how matter is built up" 3: the religious belief that between creature and creator no similarity can be found so great but that the dissimilarity is always greater; language can point in the right direction but any analogy between God and humans will always be inadequate.

I used Christians as an example, not because I think they are the only proponents for "traditional marriage". There you go with the obfuscation again.

In using the bathroom reference, would it have helped you to understand if I had replaced Christians with Caucasians, and Muslims with African Americans or First Nations Canadians?

...and would it have helped if I had added that both the Christian bathroom and the Muslim bathroom have equal functionality?

...and would it have helped if I had added that there was a state commissioned Quaker standing at the door to prevent any Muslims from trying to enter...

...all in all, I think that's a pretty fair analogy, for those who are able to think before they react...
 

bluealberta

Council Member
Apr 19, 2005
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No, I am not trying to pick a fight, simply pointing out the hypocrisy of the left. I am full aware of what an analogy is, but how you drew my take on SS union into a bathroom analogy is beyond logical comprehension. Anyway, I still would like you or someone else to respond to my other questions and comments. I am not going to change my opinion on SS and neither are you, so let's just leave it at that. As far as confrontational, perhaps you should go and read some of your posts which generate confrontation.
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
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By and large the media tends to be right wing, or just plain filled with its own importance. The problem with most of the meduim today is, they tend to be more about comments and entertainment, than about the actual facts when reporting the news.
I am very unhappy with most new networks both print and electronic. I like to think I know a little about how the media operates, I was a broadcaster for over thirty years, and I spent a few years print media as well.
Most media outlets are owned by private, corperate interests, that are more concerned with advertising, and reflecting the interests of those advertisers than they are about giving the average citizen the facts about what is happening. The media is definately a right wing institution for the most part.
 

bluealberta

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Apr 19, 2005
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Re: RE: Right Wing Bigotry From Alberta

damngrumpy said:
By and large the media tends to be right wing, or just plain filled with its own importance. The problem with most of the meduim today is, they tend to be more about comments and entertainment, than about the actual facts when reporting the news.
I am very unhappy with most new networks both print and electronic. I like to think I know a little about how the media operates, I was a broadcaster for over thirty years, and I spent a few years print media as well.
Most media outlets are owned by private, corperate interests, that are more concerned with advertising, and reflecting the interests of those advertisers than they are about giving the average citizen the facts about what is happening. The media is definately a right wing institution for the most part.

You must be joking. The CBC right wing? How far left are you if you think the media is right wing!
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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RE: Right Wing Bigotry Fr

First of all, Damngrumpy never mentioned the CBC and second of all, they do lean towards the corporatist agenda, which is decidedly right wing.

Mostly the CBC is balanced though...they tend to give the view of all of the main parties. That's very apparent when they have a panel because they get one panelist from each viewpoint. I realize that if all you want to hear is the right-wing viewpoint that listening to Liberal, a New Democrat, and a Bloc Quebecois must be annoying, but too bad.
 

bluealberta

Council Member
Apr 19, 2005
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Re: RE: Right Wing Bigotry Fr

Reverend Blair said:
First of all, Damngrumpy never mentioned the CBC and second of all, they do lean towards the corporatist agenda, which is decidedly right wing.

Mostly the CBC is balanced though...they tend to give the view of all of the main parties. That's very apparent when they have a panel because they get one panelist from each viewpoint. I realize that if all you want to hear is the right-wing viewpoint that listening to Liberal, a New Democrat, and a Bloc Quebecois must be annoying, but too bad.

Your'e right, he did not metion the CBC, but he did say media, and by and large, when talking about Canadian media, the CBC is the main topic. The Sun chain is right wing, no doubt, the Calgary Herald is left wing, and in my opinion, the CBC is left. CTV is more balanced, in my opinion, than the CBC., The CBC can be quite subtle in it's policitical leanings, and they tend to agree with the left wing participants on most panels, in my opinion. Admittedly, though, I look at the CBC from a right wing viewpoint, you look at it from a left wing viewpoint, so we will have different opinions, which makes these forums all the more fun. :wink:
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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The CBC can be quite subtle in it's policitical leanings, and they tend to agree with the left wing participants on most panels,

I'm going to go way out on a limb here and guess that you don't watch much CBC at all. Mansbridge never agrees or disagrees with anybody, though he will push if somebody...anybody...is being evasive. That's the CBC'c flagship show.

George Strombolopoulis (I have yet to spell that correctly) regularly expresses both left and right leaning viewpoints. I doubt that he favours any party. He has Andrew Coyne on (certainly not a left-winger) regularly.

Don Newman...I doubt that even he knows who he votes for. He is NewsWorld's main political anchor.

The reporters the CBC sends out into the field tend to just report back facts with very little analysis. The analysis is generally left up to experts on a panel, always from different viewpoints.
 
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