Religious Holiday - should we stop?

[darkbeaver]

Re: RE: Religious Holiday - should we stop?

That is assuming one recognizes the queen as anything at all, or the charter for that matter.

I don't. I don't for the particular reason brought up amungst others.

The queen and charter are irrelevent to modern canadianna. The multicultural, liberal, socialist, free-thinking nature of this country runs in contrast to the old superstitions, idolizations, and traditions.

It doesn't matter what you THINK, it doesn't change facts. Words get lost in time, text stays.

I can't help it ITN but you just keep loading me up,

I will draw your attention to the above falsehood you seek to perpetuate upon us, how do facts come about if not through thought? I think it matters very much what CK thinks and those thoughts very much do change facts.

 

[darkbeaver]

Re: RE: Religious Holiday - should we stop?

That is assuming one recognizes the queen as anything at all, or the charter for that matter.

I don't. I don't for the particular reason brought up amungst others.

The queen and charter are irrelevent to modern canadianna. The multicultural, liberal, socialist, free-thinking nature of this country runs in contrast to the old superstitions, idolizations, and traditions.

It doesn't matter what you THINK, it doesn't change facts. Words get lost in time, text stays.

I can't help it ITN but you just keep loading me up,

I will draw your attention to the above falsehood you seek to perpetrate upon us, how do facts come about if not through thought? I think it matters very much what CK thinks and those thoughts very much do change facts. :lol:

 

[the caracal kid]

Religion is not flogged around these parts, ITN.

For the most part, people keep their "religions" to themselves. We are fairly secular, and becoming more secular. People don't go about their business with thoughts of "god a" or "god b" anymore.

To give you an example, I did not knowingly know a "christian" until I was 21.

These "christian ideals" supposedly canadianna is built on are present in all the abrahamics. There is nothing uniquely christian, since christianity has nothing unique. While people may claim they follow some brand of christianity, the modern religion is so paganized these people are more like pagans, gnostics, jews, ect. What we are really in the minority of are those that understand the unrevealed and ancient teachings.

 

[FiveParadox]

Canada's Religious Base

Yes, it should be acknowledged that the Constitution Act, 1982 does make reference to "God" — however, it should, too, be noted that when the Senate considered a suggestion to remove the reference to God from the preamble of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the Senate concluded that in modern Canada, the reference was to a greater power or divine providence or faith, rather than to the Judeo-Christian God, in particular.

Furthermore, yes, it should be acknowledged that Her Majesty the Queen of Canada is acknowledged as the Defender of the Faith — however, I would assume that were such a title to be challenged to the Supreme Court of Canada, or to be reconsidered in the Senate, that either body would likely reach a similar "living tree" conclusion as had been reached when the Senate considered the preamble of the Constitution. The Charter requires modern interpretation — it is not a static document.

Yes, we were founded upon Christian principles. But Canada has become much more than that, in modern times. We are a mosaic of religions, faiths, cultures and beliefs, and none of those beliefs are, or should be in modern Canada, considered to be superior, or to take precedence, to any other.

That's my opinion, anyway.

 

[I think not]

You can both laugh and play around with words, but like I said, words are words. Get enough words to make a change and then I 'll believe you. Till then, it's Good Friday(Day Off) and Merry Christmas(Day Off) in Canada.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Religious Holiday - should we stop?

That is assuming one recognizes the queen as anything at all, or the charter for that matter.

I don't. I don't for the particular reason brought up amungst others.

The queen and charter are irrelevent to modern canadianna. The multicultural, liberal, socialist, free-thinking nature of this country runs in contrast to the old superstitions, idolizations, and traditions.

You must run in a lot different circles than I do, CK.

Canada, I think, has not changed as much as you think, or wish.

 

[Colpy]

Interesting the discussion you got.

Should we have national holidays that are recognized by everyone. I think no.

Now, I'm not Christian and I don't think Canada is so don't start about that.

What you think or believe doesn't make Canada any less of a nation founded upon Christian principles and beliefs. It's in back and white in your Charter and a cross resting on top of the Queen's crown. What more proof do you want?

Exactly, ITN

 

[Machjo]

Re: RE: Religious Holiday - should we stop?

Guess what, Karlin?

You may be an atheist, as is your right......but you live in a Christian country...

Where does the constitution say that?

If we were living in a Christian country right now, atheist would have to be stoned according to Mozaic law as described in the Bible.

 

[Machjo]

Re: RE: Religious Holiday - should we stop?

Guess what, Karlin?

You may be an atheist, as is your right......but you live in a Christian country...

I thought it was irreligious. Can you show me where in the constitution it says that?

 

[Outta here]

I have a slightly different way of observing the traditional Christian holidays than perhaps some. I do not consider myself either a Christian specifically, nor a non-Christian.... I won't get into all that right now lolll .... time enough for that on another thread someday, I'm sure.

What I'd like to point out here is that whether one cares to acknowledge it or not, our spirituality is what is being honoured on days of religious celebration. In Canada, yes it's a Christian observance of the holiday. I choose to honour the aspects of this holiday by remembering what the most fundamental message of the faith is. The inherent quest within all of us to reach for our best, most humane and loving selves. The trappings and distortions of the message are not relevent to me any longer. Whether Jesus was/is the one and only Saviour - also not relevent. But I respect that it is extremely relevent to some people, and I respect their right to celebrate his existence in whatever manner they desire. If I lived in a country that observed Islamic religious holidays, I'd do the same. Find the highest ideal of the faith, and disrgard the cr*p that's been spawned in the everlasting bid to use our spiritual quests to manipulate us. If one takes a close look, each faith does in fact adhere to almost the same tenents of what our spiritual sustenance requires. The rest is ... well, B.S. i.m.h.o. :wink:

So short version is, I celebrate Easter. But not for the same reasons perhaps that I'm 'supposed' to.

On that note, Happy Easter, everyone!! :wink: :bunny:

 

[Machjo]

Interesting the discussion you got.

Should we have national holidays that are recognized by everyone. I think no.

Now, I'm not Christian and I don't think Canada is so don't start about that.

What you think or believe doesn't make Canada any less of a nation founded upon Christian principles and beliefs. It's in back and white in your Charter and a cross resting on top of the Queen's crown. What more proof do you want?

Sorry, but the history of how "Christianity" came to the Americas was all but Christian:

Children of Duplessis, residential schools, forced relocations, violent suppression of indian languages in the residential schools (among other things which were happenning there)... There are certainly Christians in Canada, but man of those people who first came to the continent were conquerors in the guise of Christians. Is that the history of which you so proudly speak?

So in conclusion I must say that no, Canada, while founded upon the pretence of Christianity, was by no means founded upon Christian principles. If anything, today's Canada comes closer to those principles (native and women's right to vote, acknowledgement of past injustices and attempts at rectifying them, etc.) that that of yesteryears.

A charter and a croun are not what makes a nation Christian; observance of Christian principles, charter, croun or not, does.

 

[Machjo]

Sorry it was black and white, and your stats don't mean a thing. Your Head of State is Defender of the Faith, send her a letter telling her Canada isn't founded upon Christian prinicples and to strike the opening statement of your Charter, then maybe you will have something to go by.

Hey, I agree that with the Defender of the Faith as our head of state effectively does officially acknowledge Christianity. What I'm getting at, however, is that official recognition without practice of its principles in reality means nothing. But I acknowledge that Canada has improved somewhat since the past.

 

[Semperfi_dani]

RE: Religious Holiday - s

To answer the question...no. I do not beleive that we should stop celebrating holidays just because they are Christian holidays. I have no logical argument other than tradition. I do not think we should be working machines, no days off. Nor do i think that we should shut the door to the past to accomodate for the future. Would you ask a primarily moslem country to stop celebrating Ramadan? Or a primarily jewish country to stop celebrating Passover?

Just leave well enough alone. If you don't like the holiday, do something else and enjoy your day off. If you want to recognize other religions holidays that make such a proposal to your MLA.

 

[Machjo]

Or how about this. No more public holidays, but the individual has a right to his own religious holidays (essential services excepted perhaps, such as 911, police, fire, S&R, etc.). This would mean that if you're a Christian, you're guaranteed Christmas and Easter off. Same applies to 'Id al-Fitr if you're a Muslim, etc.

Again, essential services excepted for obvious reasons.

 

[tracy]

Why does the queen being a Christian matter to the discussion? If the next president the US elects is Jewish, that doesn't make the US a Jewish nation.

 

[the caracal kid]

yes, machjo.

that is what i was suggesting with presonal belief days.

Keep the "nation building" days, to define canadianna, but make all other vacation days generic.

 

[Semperfi_dani]

RE: Religious Holiday - s

Bah..we need more holidays damnit. I am enjoying my day off and they are few and far between. I feel like a freaking work robot, so if they want to give me all the Christian, Non-Religious, Jewish, Moslem, Hindu, etc etc holidays off, im all over that

 

[Machjo]

Re: RE: Religious Holiday - s

To answer the question...no. I do not beleive that we should stop celebrating holidays just because they are Christian holidays.

do I agree or disagree? That depends on what you mean by "we". If you mean Christians, then I agree. If you man "we" as in all Canadians, then no I don't. Which did you mean?

 

[Semperfi_dani]

RE: Religious Holiday - s

We as in All Canadians. The royal We.

But as it stands, "we" do not celebrate Easter as it is officially not a statutory holiday, hence why I have to work on Monday.

 

[the caracal kid]

Re: RE: Religious Holiday - s

Bah..we need more holidays damnit. I am enjoying my day off and they are few and far between. I feel like a freaking work robot, so if they want to give me all the Christian, Non-Religious, Jewish, Moslem, Hindu, etc etc holidays off, im all over that

programmed work time, programmed rest time.....

indeed, the plight of the meat-robot.

(your mentioning "work robot" reminded me of the "meat robot" society)