Religious accommodation or ‘accessory to sexism’? York student’s case stirs debate
- Thread starter Goober
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That is yet to unfold.
If a University implements such a policy, off to the Courts we go. Settlements will be paid out.
And this will raise up again.
https://www.google.ca/#q=government+of+canada+duty+to+accommodate
https://www.google.ca/#q=Canada+supreme+court+duty+to+accommodate+religion
It's not a matter of "if", it is law, and as you can see from your own links, it applies to more than just University's. It applies to the work place as well.
And it does not mean that you are required to accommodate. It all depends upon the situation, the impact and many other variables.
Halifax woman felt 'disgusting' after martial arts class separated by gender
Kris Sims, QMI Agency
First posted: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 06:01 PM EST | Updated: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 06:17 PM EST
HALIFAX -- Politicians are scrambling to put a brave face on an ugly situation at a Halifax recreation centre.
Sonja Power, 17, was on the cusp of earning her black belt in Aikido at a Halifax dojo when a new man joined the class. He refused to be in contact with women or to spar with any of the female students.
Power and the other women were told to stay on one side of the room and not to approach the Muslim man to respect his faith.
"I felt like a second class citizen, that I was so disgusting and unworthy that this man doesn't even want to interact with me," Power told QMI Agency. "It doesn't make any sense, why would something you choose, your religion, trump something I'm born with, my gender, we wouldn't let a religion trump someone's race."
The incident happened more than a year ago and Power's mother, Michele Walsh, said she has contacted every level of government but was ignored. She said the sensei told her to "get used to" the gender separation.
HALIFAX -- Politicians are scrambling to put a brave face on an ugly situation at a Halifax recreation centre.
Sonja Power, 17, was on the cusp of earning her black belt in Aikido at a Halifax dojo when a new man joined the class. He refused to be in contact with women or to spar with any of the female students.
Power and the other women were told to stay on one side of the room and not to approach the Muslim man to respect his faith.
"I felt like a second class citizen, that I was so disgusting and unworthy that this man doesn't even want to interact with me," Power told QMI Agency. "It doesn't make any sense, why would something you choose, your religion, trump something I'm born with, my gender, we wouldn't let a religion trump someone's race."
The incident happened more than a year ago and Power's mother, Michele Walsh, said she has contacted every level of government but was ignored. She said the sensei told her to "get used to" the gender separation.
A similar situation at York University reignited the issue.
"I don't think anybody's rights should be trampled, so as a person of faith and as a woman I would be offended by this on both sides," said Candice Bergen, minister of state for Social Development speaking in Halifax. "We've seen organizations across the country for decades being able to (compromise) there's no reason this organization and this individual not to be able to do that."
Religion and gender are both protected human rights.
The City of Halifax, which owns the recreation centre, refused to comment citing privacy concerns, but said the city tries to work out human rights concerns between the parties.
Kris Sims, QMI Agency
First posted: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 06:01 PM EST | Updated: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 06:17 PM EST
HALIFAX -- Politicians are scrambling to put a brave face on an ugly situation at a Halifax recreation centre.
Sonja Power, 17, was on the cusp of earning her black belt in Aikido at a Halifax dojo when a new man joined the class. He refused to be in contact with women or to spar with any of the female students.
Power and the other women were told to stay on one side of the room and not to approach the Muslim man to respect his faith.
"I felt like a second class citizen, that I was so disgusting and unworthy that this man doesn't even want to interact with me," Power told QMI Agency. "It doesn't make any sense, why would something you choose, your religion, trump something I'm born with, my gender, we wouldn't let a religion trump someone's race."
The incident happened more than a year ago and Power's mother, Michele Walsh, said she has contacted every level of government but was ignored. She said the sensei told her to "get used to" the gender separation.
HALIFAX -- Politicians are scrambling to put a brave face on an ugly situation at a Halifax recreation centre.
Sonja Power, 17, was on the cusp of earning her black belt in Aikido at a Halifax dojo when a new man joined the class. He refused to be in contact with women or to spar with any of the female students.
Power and the other women were told to stay on one side of the room and not to approach the Muslim man to respect his faith.
"I felt like a second class citizen, that I was so disgusting and unworthy that this man doesn't even want to interact with me," Power told QMI Agency. "It doesn't make any sense, why would something you choose, your religion, trump something I'm born with, my gender, we wouldn't let a religion trump someone's race."
The incident happened more than a year ago and Power's mother, Michele Walsh, said she has contacted every level of government but was ignored. She said the sensei told her to "get used to" the gender separation.
A similar situation at York University reignited the issue.
"I don't think anybody's rights should be trampled, so as a person of faith and as a woman I would be offended by this on both sides," said Candice Bergen, minister of state for Social Development speaking in Halifax. "We've seen organizations across the country for decades being able to (compromise) there's no reason this organization and this individual not to be able to do that."
Religion and gender are both protected human rights.
The City of Halifax, which owns the recreation centre, refused to comment citing privacy concerns, but said the city tries to work out human rights concerns between the parties.
Sonja Power and mother Michele Walsh pose in Halifax on Wednesday Jan. 15, 2014. Kris Sims/QMI Agency
In York, the guy asked to be excused. That in no way effects the women. In Halifax, he is asking that the women be excused and segregated, not himself. That's where they need to draw the line.
If the market is there for a Muslim men's only class, go nuts. But pushing the women out of their class for your religion is over the line.
If the market is there for a Muslim men's only class, go nuts. But pushing the women out of their class for your religion is over the line.
When the SCoC ruled on the Niqab it retreated on rights.
We shall see many cases over the coming years- civil to Human Rights complaints.
And it will be a tricky path regarding when the duty to accommodate ends.
the duty to accommodate ends when it intrudes on someone else's rights, or causes undue hardship to a workplace. It's pretty simple.
Get a backbone, Canada: The country needs to regain its cultural confidence
By Brian Lilley ,Parliamentary Bureau
First posted: Thursday, January 16, 2014 06:59 PM EST | Updated: Thursday, January 16, 2014 07:30 PM EST
This story out of Halifax is really bothering me.
Sonja Power is a 17-year-old girl who was told her Aikido class would be divided by gender, men on one side, women on the other, in order to accommodate a Muslim man who enrolled in the class.
The class was run out of the Lakeside Community Centre, owned by the city of Halifax. The city and the Nova Scotia Human Rights Commission both supported this gender segregation.
All of that bugs me, but it was what Sonja and her mother, Michele Walsh, told Sun News was the reaction of the sensei when they complained.
“You better get used to it because this is going to happen more and more in Canada,” is how Walsh remembers sensei Steve Nickerson responding.
My initial reaction was, “I bloody well won’t get used to it,” but now I realize I may not have a choice.
Gender segregation and other unreasonable accommodations will happen more and more, but not because I want it or you want it. It will happen because of cowardly political leaders and bizarre, twisted human rights commissions that no longer believe in real human rights.
Look at the York University decision.
A male Muslim student in an online course that required some group work asked not to work with women. This wasn’t a group program that required contact, he wouldn’t have to hug the women or even be alone with them.
The professor said no, the student thought about the professor’s reasoning and the student decided the prof was right.
The university administration and the Liberal provincial government say the prof is wrong and the student must be accommodated.
Another victory for gender apartheid.
These two accommodations on their own will not change the face of Canada, but as they say on the infomercials — wait, there’s more.
We already have what are essentially Muslim-only swims at public pools across Canada.
Windows are blacked out, change rooms are locked and male lifeguards relieved of duty so men and women cannot swim together nor see each other.
It’s an Islamic accommodation, one that happens across the country, including my neighbourhood.
In 2012, the Supreme Court ruled that Muslim women can testify in court with veils over their faces, denying the accused the right to face their accuser in an open court.
In Canada, the right to a fair trial is secondary to religious accommodation.
We allow veiled voting which can only encourage voter fraud. The Conservatives did try to ban this when the issue came up a few years ago, but that was during their minority government days and the Liberals and NDP blocked it.
Canada, and the western world in general, needs to find its backbone, it needs to regain its cultural confidence that stood for basic rights for all.
In the 1840s, when Sir Charles Napier was governing a large part of India, he is said to have witnessed an attempt to practice suttee, the burning of a widow on her husband’s funeral pyre. His response could instruct us today in standing up for our principles.
“You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: When men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them.
“Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours.”
We need to find that backbone again before Canada is no longer recognizable.
Get a backbone, Canada: The country needs to regain its cultural confidence | Columnists | Opinion | Toronto Sun
By Brian Lilley ,Parliamentary Bureau
First posted: Thursday, January 16, 2014 06:59 PM EST | Updated: Thursday, January 16, 2014 07:30 PM EST
This story out of Halifax is really bothering me.
Sonja Power is a 17-year-old girl who was told her Aikido class would be divided by gender, men on one side, women on the other, in order to accommodate a Muslim man who enrolled in the class.
The class was run out of the Lakeside Community Centre, owned by the city of Halifax. The city and the Nova Scotia Human Rights Commission both supported this gender segregation.
All of that bugs me, but it was what Sonja and her mother, Michele Walsh, told Sun News was the reaction of the sensei when they complained.
“You better get used to it because this is going to happen more and more in Canada,” is how Walsh remembers sensei Steve Nickerson responding.
My initial reaction was, “I bloody well won’t get used to it,” but now I realize I may not have a choice.
Gender segregation and other unreasonable accommodations will happen more and more, but not because I want it or you want it. It will happen because of cowardly political leaders and bizarre, twisted human rights commissions that no longer believe in real human rights.
Look at the York University decision.
A male Muslim student in an online course that required some group work asked not to work with women. This wasn’t a group program that required contact, he wouldn’t have to hug the women or even be alone with them.
The professor said no, the student thought about the professor’s reasoning and the student decided the prof was right.
The university administration and the Liberal provincial government say the prof is wrong and the student must be accommodated.
Another victory for gender apartheid.
These two accommodations on their own will not change the face of Canada, but as they say on the infomercials — wait, there’s more.
We already have what are essentially Muslim-only swims at public pools across Canada.
Windows are blacked out, change rooms are locked and male lifeguards relieved of duty so men and women cannot swim together nor see each other.
It’s an Islamic accommodation, one that happens across the country, including my neighbourhood.
In 2012, the Supreme Court ruled that Muslim women can testify in court with veils over their faces, denying the accused the right to face their accuser in an open court.
In Canada, the right to a fair trial is secondary to religious accommodation.
We allow veiled voting which can only encourage voter fraud. The Conservatives did try to ban this when the issue came up a few years ago, but that was during their minority government days and the Liberals and NDP blocked it.
Canada, and the western world in general, needs to find its backbone, it needs to regain its cultural confidence that stood for basic rights for all.
In the 1840s, when Sir Charles Napier was governing a large part of India, he is said to have witnessed an attempt to practice suttee, the burning of a widow on her husband’s funeral pyre. His response could instruct us today in standing up for our principles.
“You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: When men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them.
“Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours.”
We need to find that backbone again before Canada is no longer recognizable.
Get a backbone, Canada: The country needs to regain its cultural confidence | Columnists | Opinion | Toronto Sun
When a person takes a case, complaint to an HR Commission, and if they find in that persons favor, a monetary award is normal. Not always, but quite frequent.
I'm aware of what a settlement is, I'm asking you what the legal grounds are that you're so certain it will be found in their favour.
Well you do not know which position I take as they are all different.
Next- The laws interpretation on Duty to Accommodate is ever changing.
But if you are looking for one, here you are. Key word - Likely-
York defends allowing student to snub working with women - Toronto - CBC News
"The course had been advertised as an online course and the student had signed up for the course on the understanding that he would not be required to attend on campus," said Lenton. "If it had been an in-class on-campus course, the likely response here would have been that an accommodation would not have been provided."
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...oms-cant-trump-womens-rights/article16386782/
What happens if, next year, five students request permission to work only with men, or decide that taking instructions from a female professor contravenes their beliefs? In a few years, those students will be in the work force looking for opportunities to avoid interacting with women. Others might be encouraged to feel that the needs of a particular minority group should supersede the rights of women.
This scenario is not that far-etched, said Lisa Mattam, principal of Mattam Group, a Toronto-based management consulting firm, and an expert on diversity and the advancement of women. She has seen companies try to accommodate religious men who do not want to meet alone with a women by having others present in the room, and calls this practice “a slippery slope.”
“For me, as a huge advocate of both inclusion and women, we take the entire diversity movement backward when we begin to marginalize one group for the sake of another,” Ms. Mattam said.
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I think that's precisely why they should be taking the opportunity to clearly state that accommodation extends only to effecting your OWN life and schedule, not other people's. His request would have effected only him, but people don't seem to see that, because they're running off into a world of 'what if's'.
Not if he was on campus. I refer you to the point of likely hood it would not have been accommodated. Not that it would not have been.
Sorry, but you're not making sense. Of course it would have been different if it was different.
Oh I am making sense. The University does not have a policy for such on campus requests.
If it was different? Are you saying you would agree with him being exempt from interaction with females while taking on campus courses?
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At the crux of the matter is that this particular individual student is now influencing policy that extends across the entire school. What makes is more unsettling is that he knew via the course outline that an in-person meeting with other students was a requirement.
It is remarkable that the senior admin at York were so easily cowed into PC compliance by the simple statement that his religion was 'offended'.