Rebirth Through Baptism

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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It's true, Cliffy. God meets us all individually right where we are (incarnation of Christ). But He loves us too much to leave us like this. His work of spiritual restoration in our lives is ongoing (indwelling of the Spirit). Is it possible that you are experiencing conviction (work of the Spirit) and confusing it with judgment or disrespect?

No, neither Cliff or I are confusing the message we are getting directly. The only message of judgement and disrespect we are getting are from those that claim to be continuing Christs ministry. Judgement from those here on here, both past and present.
 

cj44

Electoral Member
Sep 18, 2013
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I, like many others, have taken that statement literally and done just that. After talking with hundreds of people who did just as that passage promises, we had all come to different understanding of what the truth is, or so it seemed. Some found the Mormons, some the Baptists, some the Baha'i, some Buddhism, some Catholicism, some atheism, etc. This puzzled me to no end, so I asked for clarity: to each in his own understanding was the reply.

Now, you can accept that people come to the spirit according to their understanding or you can judge everybody who doesn't see things your way, but you run the risk of breaking the law that Jesus laid down, judge not lest ye shall be judged. If you wish people to respect you and your beliefs, then it would only be politie to grant them the repect you desire. Otherwise, you are running afoul of your own beliefs which, I believe, is being hypocritical.
Matthew 7
Do not judge, or you too will be judged.

Jesus here is speaking to his disciples - those that follow his teaching. He is speaking to believers who may at times fancy they know more or are better than other believers. He is not speaking to unbelievers. This verse - do not judge - is by no means instruction to withhold or deny the gospel. God has already proclaimed that judgement and his verdict is that we are guilty of sin and are sentenced to eternal damnation.

Nowadays, the popular spiritual movement is to imagine oneself to have obtained the Spirit for oneself. Even beyond that, the current spiritual darkness promotes the elimination of Jesus’ teachings. Scripture is now used to create for themselves a new ‘spirit’, or a new ‘life force’. Such abandon the Word of God and then shout “stop judging me, Jesus said not to judge!”. Moreover, the lost proclaim, “God is love, no one is going to hell”. Do you imagine Jesus would be talking out of both sides of his mouth like this?


Mark 2:17
On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”
Matthew 5:22
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Matthew 10:34
“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

I, like many others, have taken that statement literally and done just that. After talking with hundreds of people who did just as that passage promises, we had all come to different understanding of what the truth is, or so it seemed. Some found the Mormons, some the Baptists, some the Baha'i, some Buddhism, some Catholicism, some atheism, etc. This puzzled me to no end, so I asked for clarity: to each in his own understanding was the reply.

Now, you can accept that people come to the spirit according to their understanding or you can judge everybody who doesn't see things your way, but you run the risk of breaking the law that Jesus laid down, judge not lest ye shall be judged. If you wish people to respect you and your beliefs, then it would only be politie to grant them the repect you desire. Otherwise, you are running afoul of your own beliefs which, I believe, is being hypocritical.
Matthew7:6
“Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

Mark 4:9
Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear

The Parable of the Sower
4*Again Jesus began to teach by the lake. The crowd that gathered around him was so large that he got into a boat and sat in it out on the lake, while all the people were along the shore at the water’s edge. 2*He taught them many things by parables, and in his teaching said: 3*“Listen! A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4*As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5*Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6*But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7*Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants, so that they did not bear grain. 8*Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up, grew and produced a crop, some multiplying thirty, some sixty, some a hundred times.”
9*Then Jesus said, “Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear.”
10*When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. 11*He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12*so that,
“‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
****and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’[a]”
13*Then Jesus said to them, “Don’t you understand this parable? How then will you understand any parable? 14*The farmer sows the word. 15*Some people are like seed along the path, where the word is sown. As soon as they hear it, Satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them. 16*Others, like seed sown on rocky places, hear the word and at once receive it with joy. 17*But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 18*Still others, like seed sown among thorns, hear the word; 19*but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful. 20*Others, like seed sown on good soil, hear the word, accept it, and produce a crop—some thirty, some sixty, some a hundred times what was sown.”

May we not trample the Good News of our Lord underfoot. May we not invent gods for ourselves. May we not imagine our experiences, thoughts, or beliefs are higher than the wisdom and righteousness of the One and Only Living God.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
That rock is Calvary.


I'm not going to disagree but who's explanation of the mystery of Golgatha shall we accept?


Man did not create God in mans image only relatively recently have men recreated god in mans image. In the beginning man created Gods in the image of the cosmos.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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Nakusp, BC
Nowadays, the popular spiritual movement is to imagine oneself to have obtained the Spirit for oneself. Even beyond that, the current spiritual darkness promotes the elimination of Jesus’ teachings. Scripture is now used to create for themselves a new ‘spirit’, or a new ‘life force’. Such abandon the Word of God and then shout “stop judging me, Jesus said not to judge!”. Moreover, the lost proclaim, “God is love, no one is going to hell”. Do you imagine Jesus would be talking out of both sides of his mouth like this?
No, but you are talking through a pin hole in your mouth. Thanks for proving beyond any doubt that intelligent conversation with you is impossible, and any further attempts would be worthless. I tried to be reasonable and polite but you sir, are incapable of respecting anything but you own narrow view point. I once had a born againer get in my face and yell at me, "But do you know Geezuz?" to which I replied, "Yes, as a matter of fact we are good friends and he tells me that he is really pissed off at self righteous clowns like you." I pray someday the spirit will take your blinders off.
 

Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
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I pray someday the spirit will take your blinders off.

I would be interested in participating in a discussion concerning spiritual blindness, Cliffy. Would you be willing to initiate one?
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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I fail to see what good baptizing a baby can do. It doesn't understand what is happening, but then, I don't beleive in indoctrinating any child into religion. I consider it child abuse up until a person reaches the age of reason. Then they can make their own choice what path to follow.

Well the good is done for the kin and community of the new member. It's like sealing the bond with and of water. Water is the mothers power and in her waters she's made another little bag of water. Of course the United Church I have had afffiliations with in the remote past says nothing of the sort. In the old days everybody knew their natural science, they never mentioned it in school while I was there, I don't think.
I was baptized, it burned my flesh like acid, the church burned down and set fire to the village, I live alone now.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
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the-brights.net
As far as "spirit" goes, I prefer to call it nature. EG: It's in my nature to be generous. Personally, I have many good aspects to my nature and have a very firm grip on the bad aspects of it; so , as far as the commandments to worship some spirit or other goes, I therefore find it redundant and unnecessary. If there is some creature I shall meet after this life that will judge me on my humanity and whatever else, would it really be justified in denying me whatever goodness there would be available just because I do not worship and still prefer to be a good human? If this creature would deny me whatever, then I have no use nor any respect for it and would be justified in my refusal to worship it.

I like Spong. He seems to be quite rational.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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Only a despot would demand worship. I do not worship despots. I think that a healthy respect and admiration for and of nature is plenty of homage to whoever or whatever allows us the priviledge of living here in the garden.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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Nowadays, the popular spiritual movement is to imagine oneself to have obtained the Spirit for oneself. Even beyond that, the current spiritual darkness promotes the elimination of Jesus’ teachings. Scripture is now used to create for themselves a new ‘spirit’, or a new ‘life force’. Such abandon the Word of God and then shout “stop judging me, Jesus said not to judge!”. Moreover, the lost proclaim, “God is love, no one is going to hell”. Do you imagine Jesus would be talking out of both sides of his mouth like this?

No, I don't think Jesus is talking out of both sides of his mouth. I think, no, I KNOW that the HUMAN writers of the bible put their own spin on things. They are counter to the revelations that I have had. Now, that being said, you obviously take the revelations of the writers of the Bible over mine, fine. But, I will NOT take being talked down to or told, either directly or by implication, that what I have learned is completely wrong and I will be "going to hell".



Mark 4:9
Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear

Which is what I have done.

May we not trample the Good News of our Lord underfoot. May we not invent gods for ourselves. May we not imagine our experiences, thoughts, or beliefs are higher than the wisdom and righteousness of the One and Only Living God.

and this is exactly what I think many who do nothing but quote the Bible are doing.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
As far as "spirit" goes, I prefer to call it nature. EG: It's in my nature to be generous. Personally, I have many good aspects to my nature and have a very firm grip on the bad aspects of it; so , as far as the commandments to worship some spirit or other goes, I therefore find it redundant and unnecessary. If there is some creature I shall meet after this life that will judge me on my humanity and whatever else, would it really be justified in denying me whatever goodness there would be available just because I do not worship and still prefer to be a good human? If this creature would deny me whatever, then I have no use nor any respect for it and would be justified in my refusal to worship it.

I like Spong. He seems to be quite rational.

Th Sun is God Les and the light owns you lock stock and barrel, say your prayers.