Rebirth Through Baptism
- Thread starter Motar
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I posed a theological question in post #7, Gerry. In post #8, you are questioning my motives. If you would be so kind as to answer my question, I would be glad to respond to yours.
Motar believes being born again means making as an adult a conscious commitment to Jesus. Part of that commitment is adult baptism. The born again are saved.
Gerry, because you were baptized as an infant you were not involved in that critical decision. You are doomed, Gerry. And, not really Christian.
If I am wrong he will answer you directly, and not hide in text.
Gerry, because you were baptized as an infant you were not involved in that critical decision. You are doomed, Gerry. And, not really Christian.
If I am wrong he will answer you directly, and not hide in text.
Gerry, if we legislate the form and content of one another's posts, this discussion becomes a script, does it not? Feel free to answer any comments or questions you like. I respect your right to do so.
Apparently, you are wrong, Spade.
Since you won't answer in your own words, I have no choice to accept spades assessment of you and stick by my original assessment of you being a hypocrite.
Only a Jew can be"born again"by accepting The NEW TESTAMENT . A testament is a contract. From Jesus forward in time Isreaslites aka Jews were no longer the chosen people. Jews and Israelites who were baptised and accepted the new contract with God were born again into the new chosen people.
"There are three outstanding conversions in the book of Acts. They have been given to us, I think, primarily as illustrations. There is the conversion of the Ethiopian eunuch, the conversion of Cornelius, and the conversion of Paul. These three men are representatives of the three families of Noah: the son of Shem, the son of Ham, and the son of Japheth. In each of these three cases, the Word of God was used by the Spirit of God for their conversions. God's method seems to be the Word of God, used by the Spirit of God, given through a man of God. I am confident that our Lord, saying that one must be born of water and of the Spirit, referred to the Spirit of God using the Word of God. Without this, Nicodemus could not enter into the kingdom of God." (J Vernon McGee)
I prefer the optimism of my Irish Canadian mother when she said to me once
ah lad there are many back roads into heaven.
If I were to be baptised again i would prefer it to be Newfoundland Screech
made from a still in the backwood of Cape Breton now that would be pure as
rain and end all argument cause after one thimble full y'all would be speechless.
Protestants Jews Muslims Catholics and everyone else have their own version of
heaven and if God truly made people in his own image and likeness they are all
right.
ah lad there are many back roads into heaven.
If I were to be baptised again i would prefer it to be Newfoundland Screech
made from a still in the backwood of Cape Breton now that would be pure as
rain and end all argument cause after one thimble full y'all would be speechless.
Protestants Jews Muslims Catholics and everyone else have their own version of
heaven and if God truly made people in his own image and likeness they are all
right.
A Jew named Ham! That just don't seem kosher.
"I saw a bumper sticker once that read “Jesus was the first Anarchist”. This made sense to me. He was always taking pot shots at the religious sorts of his day. He said the kingdom of God was within. Religion has become the mass acceptance of someone else’s rigid ideas instead of an individual search for the truth. Faith is an open and trusting attitude toward truth and reality, no matter what they may turn out to be.
To be born again is to become as a child, to look at life with open, clear and unprejudiced eyes every day, as if we have never seen it before. Jesus would probably be as repulsed by what has become of his teachings as he was with the Pharisees. He said to them “You search the scriptures daily, for in them you think you find life”. Books can teach us nothing about life. They can only show us someone else’s perspective. To study life we just have to observe it as it unfolds around us and draw our own conclusions as to how it affects us and vise versa.
The truth has been available to all people, at all geographical locations, in all historical time frames. There is no person, no people, no religious or political ideology, no nation, more worthy, more deserving, more important or more righteous than any other. We are all children of the Creator. All life is, all paths are sacred.
The search for our origins and purpose for existence has spawned many religions, sciences and philosophies. None hold all the truth. All are only glimpses of the truth from their point of view. Most are merely sign posts pointing the way home". - The Freedom of Responsibility
"I saw a bumper sticker once that read “Jesus was the first Anarchist”. This made sense to me. He was always taking pot shots at the religious sorts of his day. He said the kingdom of God was within. Religion has become the mass acceptance of someone else’s rigid ideas instead of an individual search for the truth. Faith is an open and trusting attitude toward truth and reality, no matter what they may turn out to be.
To be born again is to become as a child, to look at life with open, clear and unprejudiced eyes every day, as if we have never seen it before. Jesus would probably be as repulsed by what has become of his teachings as he was with the Pharisees. He said to them “You search the scriptures daily, for in them you think you find life”. Books can teach us nothing about life. They can only show us someone else’s perspective. To study life we just have to observe it as it unfolds around us and draw our own conclusions as to how it affects us and vise versa.
The truth has been available to all people, at all geographical locations, in all historical time frames. There is no person, no people, no religious or political ideology, no nation, more worthy, more deserving, more important or more righteous than any other. We are all children of the Creator. All life is, all paths are sacred.
The search for our origins and purpose for existence has spawned many religions, sciences and philosophies. None hold all the truth. All are only glimpses of the truth from their point of view. Most are merely sign posts pointing the way home". - The Freedom of Responsibility
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"For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made..." (Romans 1:20a NIV)
"As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one; (Romans 3:10 NIV)
"Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, 'Go south to the road—the desert road—that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.' So he started out, and on his way he met an Ethiopian eunuch, an important official in charge of all the treasury of the Kandake (which means “queen of the Ethiopians”). This man had gone to Jerusalem to worship, and on his way home was sitting in his chariot reading the Book of Isaiah the prophet. The Spirit told Philip, 'Go to that chariot and stay near it.'
Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. “Do you understand what you are reading?” Philip asked. 'How can I,' he said, 'unless someone explains it to me?' So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him. This is the passage of Scripture the eunuch was reading: 'He was led like a sheep to the slaughter, and as a lamb before its shearer is silent, so he did not open his mouth. In his humiliation he was deprived of justice. Who can speak of his descendants? For his life was taken from the earth.' The eunuch asked Philip, 'Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?' Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.
As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, 'Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized? When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing." (Acts 8:26-39 NIV)
Here is an example in Scripture of a spiritual rebirth - a baptism by the Spirit using the Word of God. Water baptism follows.
Well, personally, I shower. Besides, I don't wander about touching corpses and lepers. I developed a set of principles for myself that I avidly adhere to so no spiritual impurities stick to me. 
No dunkings needed except for stale donuts.
And I don't want to be rebirthed anyway. once was enough.
Seriously, I can't see how baptisms benefit babies or even toddlers.
No dunkings needed except for stale donuts. And I don't want to be rebirthed anyway. once was enough.
Seriously, I can't see how baptisms benefit babies or even toddlers.
Significant changes occurred in the baptismal rite of the Catholic Church in 1969, concurrent with the replacement of the Tridentine Latin Mass with the Vernacular Novus Ordo.
Many consider the changes to have been disastrous for the Catholic Church, robbing its liturgy of its mystery, universality and integrity to its dogma, not to mention its beauty.. and the sense of baptism in its full potential as a warding off of evil in the world.
With the Mass it essentially replaced the magnificent original, which had been fully articulated for almost 2000 years, with an insipid Protestant knock off.
Should the Church Consider Reintroducing the Exorcism Prayers in the Rite of Baptism? « Archdiocese of Washington
Now with moral relativism, radical individualism and the 'right' of material gratification replacing all concept of any reality of absolute and concrete evil in the secular world, one has to wonder if the Holy Father doesn't have a point. But i would go further and state the original sense of the sacraments has to be restored.
Believe it or not, baptism imbues a different sense to the world, even when administered to an infant.
Compare the texts (the original is translated from Latin) to see the difference that exists now from the concepts of evil.
New Rite
Almighty and ever-living God, you sent your only Son in to the world to cast out the power of Satan, spirit of evil, to rescue man from the kingdom of darkness, and bring him into the kingdom of light. We pray for this child: set him free from original sin, make him a temple of your glory, and send your Holy Spirit to dwell with him. We ask this through Christ our Lord.
Old Rite (delivered in Latin)
Go forth from him (her), unclean spirit, and give place to the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete.
I exorcise thee, unclean spirit, in the name of the Father + and of the Son, + and of the Holy + Spirit, that thou goest out and depart from this servant of God, N. For He commands Thee, accursed one, Who walked upon the sea, and stretched out His right hand to Peter about to sink. Therefore, accursed devil, acknowledge thy sentence, and give honor to the living and true God: give honor to Jesus Christ His Son, and to the Holy Spirit; and depart from this servant of God, N. because God and our Lord Jesus Christ hath vouchsafed to call him (her) to His holy grace and benediction and to the font of Baptism.
And this sign of the holy Cross, which we make upon his (her) forehead, do thou, accursed devil, never dare to violate. Through the same Christ our Lord
I exorcise thee, every unclean spirit, in the name of God the Father + Almighty, in the name of Jesus + Christ, His Son, our Lord and Judge, and in the power of the Holy + Spirit, that thou be depart from this creature of God N, which our Lord hath deigned to call unto His holy temple, that it may be made the temple of the living God, and that the Holy Spirit may dwell therein. Through the same Christ our Lord, who shall come to judge the living and the dead, and the world by fire!
Many consider the changes to have been disastrous for the Catholic Church, robbing its liturgy of its mystery, universality and integrity to its dogma, not to mention its beauty.. and the sense of baptism in its full potential as a warding off of evil in the world.
With the Mass it essentially replaced the magnificent original, which had been fully articulated for almost 2000 years, with an insipid Protestant knock off.
Should the Church Consider Reintroducing the Exorcism Prayers in the Rite of Baptism? « Archdiocese of Washington
Now with moral relativism, radical individualism and the 'right' of material gratification replacing all concept of any reality of absolute and concrete evil in the secular world, one has to wonder if the Holy Father doesn't have a point. But i would go further and state the original sense of the sacraments has to be restored.
Believe it or not, baptism imbues a different sense to the world, even when administered to an infant.
Compare the texts (the original is translated from Latin) to see the difference that exists now from the concepts of evil.
New Rite
Almighty and ever-living God, you sent your only Son in to the world to cast out the power of Satan, spirit of evil, to rescue man from the kingdom of darkness, and bring him into the kingdom of light. We pray for this child: set him free from original sin, make him a temple of your glory, and send your Holy Spirit to dwell with him. We ask this through Christ our Lord.
Old Rite (delivered in Latin)
Go forth from him (her), unclean spirit, and give place to the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete.
I exorcise thee, unclean spirit, in the name of the Father + and of the Son, + and of the Holy + Spirit, that thou goest out and depart from this servant of God, N. For He commands Thee, accursed one, Who walked upon the sea, and stretched out His right hand to Peter about to sink. Therefore, accursed devil, acknowledge thy sentence, and give honor to the living and true God: give honor to Jesus Christ His Son, and to the Holy Spirit; and depart from this servant of God, N. because God and our Lord Jesus Christ hath vouchsafed to call him (her) to His holy grace and benediction and to the font of Baptism.
And this sign of the holy Cross, which we make upon his (her) forehead, do thou, accursed devil, never dare to violate. Through the same Christ our Lord
I exorcise thee, every unclean spirit, in the name of God the Father + Almighty, in the name of Jesus + Christ, His Son, our Lord and Judge, and in the power of the Holy + Spirit, that thou be depart from this creature of God N, which our Lord hath deigned to call unto His holy temple, that it may be made the temple of the living God, and that the Holy Spirit may dwell therein. Through the same Christ our Lord, who shall come to judge the living and the dead, and the world by fire!
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Fersher, Coldstream. After all, we all know that any evil that is in people is due to demons and devils that invade and inhabit us and if these beings didn't live inside us, we'd all be perfect, whatever that is. lol Nothing we do is attributable to ourselves, it's all due to good beings and bad beings. lmao
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As usual that's your simplistic and completely erronious interpretation of Christian theology of Good and Evil, LG. All of the real stuff is based on Free Will and implicit conscience and informed responsibility.