Reality check: does social assistance disincentivize people from working?

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Reality check: does social assistance disincentivize people from working?

When Ontario Social Services Minister Lisa MacLeod announced the government will renege on a campaign promise to preserve the basic income pilot project, she repeated a familiar refrain.

“It really is a disincentive to get people back on track,” MacLeod said.

It’s an argument Evelyn Forget has heard many people across the country make over the last four decades.

“It’s an idea that’s been around forever,” says Forget, a professor at the University of Manitoba. “It keeps re-emerging and it seems obvious to people. It seems obvious to economists that if you give people money for nothing nobody will work.”

The problem? That argument doesn’t hold up if you look at previous pilot projects, like the one Forget spearheaded in Manitoba in the 1970s.

What her work revealed then is being born out now, she says, in the interviews with people across the province who are speaking out about what the loss of the program will mean for their lives.

Jody Dean said the money had made it possible for her to go back to school on a part-time basis and to buy parking passes to the Hamilton hospital where one of her three children receives care.

Nobody she knows stopped contributing to the economy, as MacLeod alluded to, because of the supplement.

“I know several girls that are working poor who have walked to work because they couldn’t afford the bus. Did they quit their jobs because they got basic income? Hell no,” she said.

That’s what Forget found in 1970s Manitoba, as well.

In that experiment, called “Mincome,” there was no real change to the job status of primary earners. The only groups for whom there was a change were married women and young, unattached men. The former, predominantly used the funds to buy more maternity leave to spend with their newborns. If you dig into the data for the latter group, Forget said, you realize many of them were young men whose low-income families pressured them into getting jobs at young ages to ease the family’s financial burdens.

“When Mincome came along, some of the families decided they could support their sons in school a little bit longer,” she said. “There was a nice little increase in high school completion rates.”

https://globalnews.ca/news/4367291/does-welfare-make-people-stop-working/amp/
 

Dixie Cup

Senate Member
Sep 16, 2006
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Social Services are for those who require assistance; some for long term due to disabilities and others for the short-term.


EI, unfortunately, doesn't last a significant amount of time, especially if you have medical issues (like cancer). Medical treatment is usually much longer than any EI (supposing one has worked long enough to receive benefits).


The amount received on Social Assistance is often paltry so who would want to stay on it for any length of time anyway - it barely covers living costs.


At one time it was true; it was a disincentive for those on it to work and they didn't - that was in the 60's. Now however, most Income Support programs have been reduced so there is absolutely no incentive to stay on it unless you absolutely have no other choice. I suspect that people who don't know better are thinking of the former and not the latter and are either disingenuous or don't have a clue how much people get anymore and need to do their homework.


JMHO
 

OpposingDigit

Electoral Member
Aug 27, 2017
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I remember when I (single guy) was receiving welfare which amounted to 535 bucks per month. My rent was 420 bucks for a room with shared kitchen.

It was all I could do was to afford to eat. There was no affordability to job seek.

And then I found a very compassionate doctor who recommended me for a disability cheque which amounted to about 11 hundred per month. Toronto welfare fought hard to deny me such a benefit, but my doctor stood firm on principle alone like so many other doctors did at the time. It took more than a year for me to gain the special designation of disabled.

The extra money allowed me the opportunity of job seeking.

Every time I saw that doctor, tears came to my eyes because I was so thankful.
 
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Hoid

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The righties do not believe in welfare, except for the oil industry. And banks.

But not for Tesla or poor people.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
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But I thought they were all about free markets and leaving gubmint out of it?
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Not nearly as much as high unemployment and favoritism being the deciding factor for any job that pays more than $100k/yr.
 

Danbones

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 23, 2015
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Naw it just incentivises them to work under the table to keep the welfare AND not pay taxes.
 

JamesBondo

House Member
Mar 3, 2012
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you are all making the false assumption that the problem exists only as an incentive or disincentive of the social program. the fact is there are people that want to work, and there are people that don't want to work. And, there are people that want to work but there is a hurtle that is stopping them. And, there are people that should be working but they know how to work system.
 

Danbones

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Sep 23, 2015
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One of the cooks that I volunteer with at the homeless shelter told me that more than half the staff of the three restaurant chain he works for are on ODSP and welfare, and are working under the table.

He said that there is ONE nut who is on ODSP, and who is working on the books, and suffering the ODSP reductions created by what he earns working, and everyone thinks that that must be why he was labeled "crazy". Ha Ha, he also said they keep him around because he is the best dishwasher they have, a job no one else wants.

I never thought to ask him what does that make us volunteers who feed some of these scamming a$$holes at the shelter on days they don't work?
 
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OpposingDigit

Electoral Member
Aug 27, 2017
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When a cop shoots somebody or assaults somebody, we are told not to tar every policeman with the same brush and that most of them are honourable.

Also; people receiving ODSP are allowed to work and keep a certain amount of earned funds over and above ODSP payments.

Does anybody think that somebody can live on 535 bucks a month on Welfare in the city of Toronto?

And, how far does 11 hundred per month go in the city of Toronto?

And, the owner/workers of the eating establishment where a possible "Proven" fraud is taking place and remain silent are more guilty than the ODSP workers themselves.

There is something wrong with a system that would pay 50 thousand a year to lock somebody up while awaiting a trial to even find out if they are guilty or not, but unable to fund a proper welfare system. The government would even choose to pay 50 thousand a year to lock somebody up for failure to pay their court imposed fines.
 
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Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
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They say there are 52 million Americans on food stamps.

If the 6 million unemployed is correct - what does that mean?

https://www.mydaytondailynews.com/n...employees-food-stamps/cxqzF1NHn74uisiJNcpFFP/

in Ohio alone over 11,000 Walmart employees are on food stamps.

Nationally Amazon is said to have about 10 % of its employees on food stamps - which Trump already calls a subsidy - and now Amazon will accept food stamps as payment. Soo its win-win for American corporate welfare.
 

Dixie Cup

Senate Member
Sep 16, 2006
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In Alberta AISH (assured income for the severely handicapped) is $1588 a month and you are allowed to earn up to $800 before it affects benefits. And, I must say that it is quite difficult to get on it. If you are eligible to claim CPP disability benefits, those are deducted pretty much dollar for dollar so that the total amount one receives is the $1588. Needless to say, GST refunds and the Alberta Carbon Tax rebates are really relied upon for additional income if a person can't work at all.

In Alberta AISH (assured income for the severely handicapped) is $1588 a month and you are allowed to earn up to $800 before it affects benefits. And, I must say that it is quite difficult to get on it. If you are eligible to claim CPP disability benefits, those are deducted pretty much dollar for dollar so that the total amount one receives is the $1588. Needless to say, GST refunds and the Alberta Carbon Tax rebates are really relied upon for additional income if a person can't work at all.



PS it used to be that one could only make $400 before benefits were affected but that was increased to $800 by the conservatives before the NDP won the election. To date, the NDP hasn't changed anything.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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In Alberta AISH (assured income for the severely handicapped) is $1588 a month and you are allowed to earn up to $800 before it affects benefits. And, I must say that it is quite difficult to get on it. If you are eligible to claim CPP disability benefits, those are deducted pretty much dollar for dollar so that the total amount one receives is the $1588. Needless to say, GST refunds and the Alberta Carbon Tax rebates are really relied upon for additional income if a person can't work at all.





PS it used to be that one could only make $400 before benefits were affected but that was increased to $800 by the conservatives before the NDP won the election. To date, the NDP hasn't changed anything.

There are also rent supplements for AISH clients.

If you are disabled, AB and SK are where you want to be.
 

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
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When I lived in Alberta you could claim something called AAA if you were a renter.
 

JamesBondo

House Member
Mar 3, 2012
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well if you ask me, a person has the right to food and shelter. The garanteed income is a remedy not a right.

Lazy leftards want to be able to throw money at a problem instead of assuming the responsibility for the problem.

This garanteed income program is a one size fits all program.