RCMP attempt damage control in wake of B.C. video

[damngrumpy]

JLM your words serve and protect are the key here the police seem to prefer
abuse and arrest whether you are guilty or not. Up until Mr. Turton came
out with a much more clear view of what happened, I was puzzled and
thought maybe this is just one of those things that happen. It is now
apparent there are dozens of cases of outright misconduct and it is not going
to get better for a long time. It is time BC bailed on this gang and bring in our
own police force with civilian oversight. The RCMP have now lost my respect

 

[Cliffy]

The RCMP need to clean house or they are going to lose respect all over. Not sure if I would want a provincial force though. They tend to have less integrity. The QPP, when I left Montreal, made the RCMP look like alter boys.

 

[damngrumpy]

The problem is when you think about it, changing the police colours, means nothing unless
there is a shake up and cleanup. Kelowna for example had its own police force in the 1930's
but they were subject to a lot of questions. Including the police chief apparently shooting his
deputy and his girlfriend who ran most of the drugs, illegal booze and prostitution in the city.
His name was David Murdoch and he spent a lot of time locked away in a mental facility.
The Provincial Police were so corrupt they were replace with the RCMP back in 1950. I think
we have a bigger problem with the Mounties now though, they are a problem right across the
country, and the leadership is non existent now. Time to do something.

 

[TenPenny]

Like many things, it comes down to leadership. The RCMP needs to establish leadership that will not tolerate such behaviour. When the guy at the top lays down the law, the troops learn to work within the rules, but it takes quite a while to work its way down.

 

[JLM]

The problem is when you think about it, changing the police colours, means nothing unless
there is a shake up and cleanup. Kelowna for example had its own police force in the 1930's
but they were subject to a lot of questions. Including the police chief apparently shooting his
deputy and his girlfriend who ran most of the drugs, illegal booze and prostitution in the city.
His name was David Murdoch and he spent a lot of time locked away in a mental facility.
The Provincial Police were so corrupt they were replace with the RCMP back in 1950. I think
we have a bigger problem with the Mounties now though, they are a problem right across the
country, and the leadership is non existent now. Time to do something.

The question is what. We don't want to "throw the baby out with the bath water". In my various dealings with the R.C.M.P. and other forces I've encountered both ends of the spectrum. Most were good. The ones that weren't so good had a lot to do with the cop putting his own "self importance" above enforcing the law in a sane and civilized manner. I was driving down the road near Spokane one day when I noticed a cop car parked with red light flashing about half a mile ahead, so I proceded slowly toward it and when I was still 100 yards away the cop came running up the road toward me in high dudgeon and demanded "do you know what a red light means"? In my frustration I forgot to say "Yes, stop........................when I get to it". I guess I was supposed to stop half a mile back. :smile:

 

[damngrumpy]

JLM the question is What? That is true, the problem I have is the senior command has gone
all to hell maybe. The other problem is not the police, it is the politicians and those who make
the decision who is eligible to be an RCMP officer. Yup, its those, good ole multiculturalists
again. The need to fill quota is more important that the requirements. Today we have to have
5 or even 6 cops to take someone down when one or two used to be needed. Why do you
think that is? It is because they have people who can't take care of themselves on the front line
of police work. Cops who are too small, women who are not strong enough and others who
are not suited to do the job, either because they are not smart enough or they have a thug
mentality. Now I am not saying that women should be kept off the force or not put on the front
line because there are some who can do the job.
I would like to see Police Officers who are qualified to do the job doing the job. I don't care if they
are women, men, wearing a turban or anything else, simply qualified to do police work and to a
significant degree we don't have that anymore, in too many cases. Secondly we have to clean
house at headquarters and bring in some people who know what they are doing and can inspire
confidence.
I agree with you though, the majority, are good people trying to do a job under some difficult
circumstances. It is the problem children that keep offending and erroding the confidence of the
general public. In BC we are now at the breaking point, we have had so many cases of police
becoming the problem that something has to change and I don't think the institution is going to
change enough to meet what needs to be done.

 

[JLM]

JLM the question is What? That is true, the problem I have is the senior command has gone
all to hell maybe. The other problem is not the police, it is the politicians and those who make
the decision who is eligible to be an RCMP officer. Yup, its those, good ole multiculturalists
again. The need to fill quota is more important that the requirements. Today we have to have
5 or even 6 cops to take someone down when one or two used to be needed. Why do you
think that is? It is because they have people who can't take care of themselves on the front line
of police work. Cops who are too small, women who are not strong enough and others who
are not suited to do the job, either because they are not smart enough or they have a thug
mentality. Now I am not saying that women should be kept off the force or not put on the front
line because there are some who can do the job.
I would like to see Police Officers who are qualified to do the job doing the job. I don't care if they
are women, men, wearing a turban or anything else, simply qualified to do police work and to a
significant degree we don't have that anymore, in too many cases. Secondly we have to clean
house at headquarters and bring in some people who know what they are doing and can inspire
confidence.
I agree with you though, the majority, are good people trying to do a job under some difficult
circumstances. It is the problem children that keep offending and erroding the confidence of the
general public. In BC we are now at the breaking point, we have had so many cases of police
becoming the problem that something has to change and I don't think the institution is going to
change enough to meet what needs to be done.

I've been giving the matter some more thought and think there is one more thing that could be tried before a major (expensive) upheaval takes place. The Staff Sergeant at each detachment could mail out a questionaire for every file processed at the conclusion of the file or at six months, whichever comes first. The questionaire would be returned to R.C.M.P. Headquarters, with a copy to the Atty. General. Questions would include - name and rank of attending officer, Nature of the complaint, politeness of the officer, did the officer listen closely to your complaint?, did the officer explain in detail your questions? did the officer listen and consider any input you gave? Did the officer report back to you promptly on the progress of the investigation? Was the matter resolved to your satisfaction?
The same could be sent to the recipient of every highway citation. I know it would add several dollars to the cost of processing each file but may save huge bucks in the long run- like a lot of severance packages and a lot of new recruitment training costs.

 

[Ron in Regina]

I've been giving the matter some more thought and think there is one more thing that could be tried before a major (expensive) upheaval takes place. The Staff Sergeant at each detachment could mail out a questionaire for every file processed at the conclusion of the file or at six months, whichever comes first. The questionaire would be returned to R.C.M.P. Headquarters, with a copy to the Atty. General. Questions would include - name and rank of attending officer, Nature of the complaint, politeness of the officer, did the officer listen closely to your complaint?, did the officer explain in detail your questions? did the officer listen and consider any input you gave? Did the officer report back to you promptly on the progress of the investigation? Was the matter resolved to your satisfaction?
The same could be sent to the recipient of every highway citation. I know it would add several dollars to the cost of processing each file but may save huge bucks in the long run- like a lot of severance packages and a lot of new recruitment training costs.

For those that have suffered through the process of a Police complaint process, as
non-criminals, who have been crapped out the other end by the process, would find
this as a third victimization bordering on harassment.

 

[JLM]

For those that have suffered through the process of a Police complaint process, as
non-criminals, who have been crapped out the other end by the process, would find
this as a third victimization bordering on harassment.

I don't think I personally would regard it as such, as long as I think it's sincere.

 

[damngrumpy]

JLM I like the idea and yes it would be as expensive as hell, but then two things could make
it a lot cheaper. One it would mean the present force could be maintained with corrections
made, and the second item of note, the cost of accountability is high especially where there
appears to be a lack of it these days. I always here people say this is too expensive or that
is too expensive, when the price of democracy and accountability is high, granted, but them
the cost of not doing anything is a hell of a lot higher, Your suggested solution is of course a
measure of correction because the problem has been ignored for a decade or more.
I like the fact that on this forum at least we are discussing possible solutions, I wonder if there
are more. Putting things in context here we are facing a serious problem and if nothing is done
we will eventually face a serious crisis and that will be even more expensive. It is time to look at
policing, education and health care as investments in the future and not just expensive programs.
If we view things as an investment, we tend to be more aware of costs and ways and means
to solve the problems without just throwing money at it, without regard to consequences.
Good suggestion by the way.

 

[JLM]

C.B.C. radio Kelowna will be interviewing some of the key people involved including the mayor of Kelowna between 7:30 and 8 o'clock this morning.

 

[JLM]

Time to rejuvenate this threat, the Kelowna thug is apparently still on paid "vacation" 6 weeks after charges were recommended - if we don't shout and scream the powers that be will think we've become complacent and sweep it under the rug (probably transfer him with a promotion) It will be a good test for our new Premier in B.C., I'm going to give her a day or two to catch her breath and get a sense of the layout of her new office, then I'll be emailing her. Maybe kill two birds with one stone that way.

 

[JLM]

Time to rejuvenate this threat, the Kelowna thug is apparently still on paid "vacation" 6 weeks after charges were recommended - if we don't shout and scream the powers that be will think we've become complacent and sweep it under the rug (probably transfer him with a promotion) It will be a good test for our new Premier in B.C., I'm going to give her a day or two to catch her breath and get a sense of the layout of her new office, then I'll be emailing her. Maybe kill two birds with one stone that way.

B.C. RCMP officer charged with 2 assault counts - British Columbia - CBC News

The public has to get behind this more. It has now been nearly three months that this thug has remained on pay and it is just now he is finally being charged. In the meantime a third incident has come to light. We know the powers that be are dragging their feet while we stand by helplessly watching and not being confident the same thuggery won't happen to us.

 

[PoliticalNick]

Serve and protect? What a crock of ****e. I relate to you an episode that happened about 15 years ago.

My wife and I were travelling with our 7 month old son to whistler for a christmas get together with family. About 40 minutes north of Squamish we experienced engine difficulty with our minivan and had to stop in an area with very little shoulder due to the snow-pack. It was after 8pm and there was little traffic on the road but I managed to flag a passing motorist who was unable to help further than promising to alert the RCMP when she reached Squamish. We waited for almost 90 minutes and eventually a cruiser pulled up behind us. I explained the situation to the officer and asked if he could call for a tow and give us a ride to whistler as our baby was now getting quite cold. He proceeded to give me lecture that I was wasting police time and should have had the kind lady call a tow truck instead of the police. I apologized about any misunderstanding and again indicated that we had a young baby in an unheated vehicle in -7 degree temperature and asked him to assist us with a ride to Whistler or even Squamish. He got quite aggitated and informed me he was not a taxi and that I was blocking the highway and should move my van before I got a ticket. I of course was quite stunned by his response and actually asked what it meant to 'serve and protect' and why he would not help us. He then returned to his car for a minute or two and when he came back to me said he had called his dispatch to send a tow-truck to come impound my van and gave me a ticket for obstructing traffic. He then got in his cruiser, made an illegal u-turn on the highgway and departed the scene. We were very fortunate that we managed to stop someone going in the right direction who gave us a ride to our family but when I returned later that night with my brother and father our van was gone.

On our return trip the next evening we stopped in Squamish at the police station to try and recover our vehicle and report this officer to his superiors. It cost me about $200 to get my van released and the seargent told me the officer did nothing wrong as it is not policy to allow people inside their vehicles.

 

[JLM]

Serve and protect? What a crock of ****e. I relate to you an episode that happened about 15 years ago.

My wife and I were travelling with our 7 month old son to whistler for a christmas get together with family. About 40 minutes north of Squamish we experienced engine difficulty with our minivan and had to stop in an area with very little shoulder due to the snow-pack. It was after 8pm and there was little traffic on the road but I managed to flag a passing motorist who was unable to help further than promising to alert the RCMP when she reached Squamish. We waited for almost 90 minutes and eventually a cruiser pulled up behind us. I explained the situation to the officer and asked if he could call for a tow and give us a ride to whistler as our baby was now getting quite cold. He proceeded to give me lecture that I was wasting police time and should have had the kind lady call a tow truck instead of the police. I apologized about any misunderstanding and again indicated that we had a young baby in an unheated vehicle in -7 degree temperature and asked him to assist us with a ride to Whistler or even Squamish. He got quite aggitated and informed me he was not a taxi and that I was blocking the highway and should move my van before I got a ticket. I of course was quite stunned by his response and actually asked what it meant to 'serve and protect' and why he would not help us. He then returned to his car for a minute or two and when he came back to me said he had called his dispatch to send a tow-truck to come impound my van and gave me a ticket for obstructing traffic. He then got in his cruiser, made an illegal u-turn on the highgway and departed the scene. We were very fortunate that we managed to stop someone going in the right direction who gave us a ride to our family but when I returned later that night with my brother and father our van was gone.

On our return trip the next evening we stopped in Squamish at the police station to try and recover our vehicle and report this officer to his superiors. It cost me about $200 to get my van released and the seargent told me the officer did nothing wrong as it is not policy to allow people inside their vehicles.

If you had been me, that cop's name would have appeared in a letter to the editor of every major daily newspaper.

 

[PoliticalNick]

If you had been me, that cop's name would have appeared in a letter to the editor of every major daily newspaper.

In hindsight yes, but I was much younger and less informed about things back then. I didn't even think about going public and didn't really know how.

 

[Cannuck]

In hindsight yes, but I was much younger and less informed about things back then. I didn't even think about going public and didn't really know how.

I wish you had gone public. It would have helped shed light on the fact that some people can't distinguish between a tow truck and a police car. Tell me, if your wife was in labour, would you have asked the passing motorist to call a well drilling company?

 

[JLM]

In hindsight yes, but I was much younger and less informed about things back then. I didn't even think about going public and didn't really know how.

I think you'll find Nick that the deportment of cops isn't going to improve much as long as there are those who defend their oafishness, lack of concern for the public in distress and generally acting like a bunch of hot dogs. Don't get me wrong, it's only a small minority who are like this, most of them are caring and try to do their jobs, under stressful circumstances but it just takes one or two "rotten apples" in the barrel like the one who attended your situation.

 

[Cannuck]

I think you'll find Nick that the deportment of cops isn't going to improve much as long as there are those who defend their oafishness, lack of concern for the public in distress and generally acting like a bunch of hot dogs.

What planet are you on JLM? Police defenders are few and far between. The cry for change is deafening. That said, I don't think the cop went far enough in this case. He should have rendered a good swift kick in the ass. I understand that you (being from BC) may find -7 "distressing" but here in Alberta, we question the manhood of any guy that thinks that way.

 

[JLM]

What planet are you on JLM? Police defenders are few and far between. The cry for change is deafening. That said, I don't think the cop went far enough in this case. He should have rendered a good swift kick in the ass. I understand that you (being from BC) may find -7 "distressing" but here in Alberta, we question the manhood of any guy that thinks that way.

Your post goes a looooooooooong way in supporting what I say. First of all you obviously don't know the road between Squamish and Whistler (no services anywhere once you leave Brackendale) . It's a young family in the dead of winter after dark at a time when you might see another vehicle every 20 minutes and they have a 7 month baby. Who gives a f**k whether he followed strict protocol- that cops first concern should have been about the well being of that baby. His actions were just as ignorant as your attitude about it.