Rational Faith
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I think that is contrary to one of Newton's laws. Something to the effect that "matter can not be created or destroyed but only transformed to another state" or some such thing that escapes me.
P.S. Nah, I guess it wasn't Newton I just googled him. Must have been Mark Twain. -
That's not necessarily what it means, I've created bookshelves and garden furniture and decks and garages and other such things, but I didn't create them out of nothing. Would have been much simpler and cheaper if I could have though. If you're talking about the universe itself, there are a variety of plausible scenarios described in the scientific literature consistent with our current understanding of physics, invoking a divine creator doesn't add anything to them or explain anything better. In fact that makes it worse, because if you're going to be scientific about it then you also have to explain where the creator came from and how he did it.
Me. I am perfect for what I came into this life to learn.
That returning home thing seems pretty universal in the older philosophies. It's very often to the empyrean, the lake of fire and or light. Long time ago Cliffy we may all have thought as one.
I think Les should establish the purpose of the human form first before casting doubt on the utility of the design/form.
Just about every religion and spiritual path recognizes the divine but is it rational to think that only your religion is the only true path home?
Well, of course it is rational, Cliffy.
I think you want to pull all religions and beliefs into the same pot of stew. Why can't there be "diversity"! Do all religions have to say the same things? Do all paths have to lead to the same home? Why? That would suggest a schizophrenic God to me. You cannot take all the world religions, philosophies and individual beliefs and say they all mean the same thing. They don't.
Rational faith isn't faith in faith. Rational faith is faith in God. Who is He?
Dexter, Would you ever consider contemplating the possibility of God without scientific investigation? How would you apprehend God - how would you go about it? Throw out the science books (I know I am going to catch the hell-fire for suggesting it) and forget the lab equipment. What would be your first move?
I think you want to pull all religions and beliefs into the same pot of stew. Why can't there be "diversity"! Do all religions have to say the same things? Do all paths have to lead to the same home? Why? That would suggest a schizophrenic God to me. You cannot take all the world religions, philosophies and individual beliefs and say they all mean the same thing. They don't.
Rational faith isn't faith in faith. Rational faith is faith in God. Who is He?
Dexter, Would you ever consider contemplating the possibility of God without scientific investigation? How would you apprehend God - how would you go about it? Throw out the science books (I know I am going to catch the hell-fire for suggesting it) and forget the lab equipment. What would be your first move?
Seems to me most Christians say there is only one god. Does god change with the name you give it or how you imagine it to be? Does calling god Allah, Wankan Tonka, Great Spirit, the Atman, change what it is? No. Does the son of god's name change what or who it is? No. Different languages and cultures may have different names and imagine them to be different, but are they? If you bothered to study other religions you just might find that they are all talking about the same thing, but, no, can't do that. You might have to take your mind out of that steel trap you put it in.Well, of course it is rational, Cliffy.
I think you want to pull all religions and beliefs into the same pot of stew. Why can't there be "diversity"! Do all religions have to say the same things? Do all paths have to lead to the same home? Why? That would suggest a schizophrenic God to me. You cannot take all the world religions, philosophies and individual beliefs and say they all mean the same thing. They don't.
Rational faith isn't faith in faith. Rational faith is faith in God. Who is He?
Gilbert, you are looking for an answer regarding my "obvious planning" comment. Well, ducks have flipper feet - that suits them well to landing in water. Dogs - well, they are swell all the way around. And, planned to be man's best friend and they are. Look at the magnificence of the human hand. Don't even get me started on the eyeball. How about the mountain goat - there is a nimble fellow. The sun set just right so it doesn't incinerate the skin off our heads. The beauty of a rose and its scent (prior to the genetically engineered mass produced roses). I see the universe was made with love by a loving God. He planned it.
Cliffy, Is it past your bedtime? Kind of grumpy this evening, aren't you?
You may find this shocking, but I have studied other religions and still do. I think you are the one that puts these religions in a steel trap. I find it unnecessary and inaccurate to declare all religions proclaim the same god.
Cliffy, Is it past your bedtime? Kind of grumpy this evening, aren't you?
You may find this shocking, but I have studied other religions and still do. I think you are the one that puts these religions in a steel trap. I find it unnecessary and inaccurate to declare all religions proclaim the same god.
It's only 9pm here, so no it is not past my bedtime. And no I do not put god in a steel trap. The unknown and the unknowable cannot be contained. It is a mystery and those who think they have solved the mystery are delusional at best. If you watched the video I posted you would see just how irrational your belief system is. Belief is not faith. If you had faith you would not need to justify it to anyone and you certainly would not need to convince others that you had found "the truth" and that they should believe the same as you do. Faith is personal, religion is for mass consumption.
dogs 'all' came about through experimentation and genetic mixing by 'humans', and all began from the
wolf, and i'm sure someone with a great knowledge of the history of the wolf, can tell us where they
started, and on down the line.
I have no doubt that we are all here as a big plan, but really cj44 and ilk, how many times do these theories have to be stated over and over ad infinitum? I picked up on it the first day in Sunday School. That should have been the end of it! (And that's my trolling for the day) -
Domestication of wolves was a long process. It started when wolves discovered what easy pickings it was to clean up a human camp and humans found that it was of service to them to have them clean up the camp. At first it was a toleration thing but eventually they became buddies and helped with the hunt. Then genetic selection was the next step. Certainly no one thinks that pugs are a naturally occurring species. Dogs are man's best friend because of tens of thousands of years of coexistence. It has been a symbiotic relationship all along.
I freely acknowledge the possibility of god, all I've ever said is that the evidence and arguments offered in support of his reality are not sufficient to justify accepting the claim that he's real, so I reject it. "God is real and interacts with the cosmos" (if he doesn't he might as well not exist for all the difference he could make) is an empirical claim about the nature of physical reality, and is thus within the realm of scientific investigation. So I'd start with the idea that if science can't find him, he's probably not there.
You said, "Don't even get me started on the eyeball" in a context that suggested you consider it a marvel of design. I've already touched on that specific item in a previous post, apparently you weren't paying attention or just cancelled that idea out of your thoughts. From an engineering design perspective, it's built upside down, backwards, and partly inside out. Cephalopods have much better designed eyes than we do, the light-sensing rods and cones are on the front of the retina facing the direction of incoming light, and the nerves and blood vessels that supply them are behind them, so they don't have the foveal blind spot we do, and they wouldn't go blind if they were diabetic. What can we conclude from that, that god likes squids and octupuses better?
So where does the coyote fit in? -
i would have to research the coyote, not sure if they fit into the journey of the dogs, from the wolf.
the coyote does come down the line from the wolf, just took a bit of a
different road, also called the american jackel, a spin off i guess,
and of course the human didn't get their hands on them to domesticate
them, maybe they had other ideas, as many wild animals that refused
to be domesticated.
the horse we know about, but the zebra refused to become domesticated.
Obnoxious bastids!
I don't think that's true. I think nobody wanted to domesticate 'em, coz how silly would you look riding around on a stripey mount? Like a bloody poofter!
Can't see Wild Bill Hickok riding around on a zebra. Nobobody'd take him seriously. Well, not til he shot 'em.
While I was sleeping.......tough crowd on the forum last night. I'll need my morning coffee before I address you all. Wolves, Zebras, Eyeballs, Cephalopods....That's quite a to do list you have given me. Don't you people sleep?
I better get my coffee.
JLM, ".. how many times do these theories have to be stated over and over ad infinitum?" Until they are learned, JLM. And it appears some of our fellow posters were not paying attention in Sunday School. So, on we go. Lesson One: GOD CREATED STUFFI have no doubt that we are all here as a big plan, but really cj44 and ilk, how many times do these theories have to be stated over and over ad infinitum? I picked up on it the first day in Sunday School. That should have been the end of it! (And that's my trolling for the day) -
I better get my coffee.
No rest for the wicked. Being the anti-christ is a full time job, doncha know.While I was sleeping.......tough crowd on the forum last night. I'll need my morning coffee before I address you all. Wolves, Zebras, Eyeballs, Cephalopods....That's quite a to do list you have given me. Don't you people sleep?