radio attack ads against Old Dutch chips

[Twila]

Unions are something like democracy.....the worst possible system: except for all the others.

I would hate for my employment to become unionized. I get raises based on my abilities not my seniority. Which in my work is best. I would hate to work my ass off beside someone who doesn't and know we're both getting the same wage and will both get a raise.

I also like getting the christmas bonus I get every year. It's based on my work. Not on my tenure.

I also like knowing that I don't have to pay for this priviledge with dues whether I'm working or not...

Unions are great for certain things...like gov't and healthcare(unless we're talking private seniors homes)...but for regular business...they hurt the company which in turn hurts the employees.

Besides we have labour standards now...We are protected under the law and don't need to pay union dues for it.

 

[Colpy]

I would hate for my employment to become unionized. I get raises based on my abilities not my seniority. Which in my work is best. I would hate to work my ass off beside someone who doesn't and know we're both getting the same wage and will both get a raise.

I also like getting the christmas bonus I get every year. It's based on my work. Not on my tenure.

I also like knowing that I don't have to pay for this priviledge with dues whether I'm working or not...

Unions are great for certain things...like gov't and healthcare(unless we're talking private seniors homes)...but for regular business...they hurt the company which in turn hurts the employees.

Besides we have labour standards now...We are protected under the law and don't need to pay union dues for it.

Look up the page to post number 11......and you will see how we are "protected" by labour standards in New Brunswick.

 

[Cannuck]

I think that'd you'd find more people sympathetic to your position if the unions didn't bend over backwards to defend those bad employees.

Nonsense. I know a union employee who was fired. He asked to union to file a grievance on his behalf. They did not. Continuing to lump every union together will only hurt your own credibility.

 

[Twila]

Colpy, wow I had no idea. For you unions are essential. That's terrible!

 

[darkbeaver]

It always frightens me(not kidding) when I see and hear the history of the blood bought rights of union so poorly understood by some. That all the human misery of the mine or the factory slave should have to be repeated by my children who through the deciet of the corporations and the limp politicians enjoy less real income than I did in 1972. I read here the exact anti-union lines from the seventies and even the thirties. And we paid to have them educated thusly.

 

[Scott Free]

I am not sure I understand. Are you basically speaking to me here?

I wasn't.

It was just a rant aimed at the OP.

I can't understand people who rail against unions and I'm more than fed up with it.

For example auto workers being asked to take a cut in pay... why!?!?! Who are we bailing out then? Isn't the reason to bail out auto makers that they provide good jobs? If they want to wreck the good jobs then they shouldn't get tax money! Instead people think the workers should take a cut!?!?! Which is just a knee jerk irrational emotional response. Logically if the auto industry can't provide good jobs then it should be abolished. If rich people want it to keep going then they should bail it out and leave tax payers money out of it.

The same illogical stupidity goes on here in BC. 52 sawmills are shut down yet we export more logs then ever before. We ship our logs to foreign mills so non union workers can make products to ship back to us. People then blame the unions!?!?! For demanding a descent living? Outrageous! The logs belong to us, the people, not the money grubbing elites and the political cartels. They are our logs and they are being stolen from us.

Anyway...

Canadians don't deserve their lifestyle if this is how they act and think.

In a way I'm glad we'll all be living in cardboard boxes one day.

It's what we deserve.

(another rant - not aimed at anyone.... in particular)

 

[captain morgan]

Only if given the chance.........

That is EXACTLY what they did do for the first hundred years of the Industrial revolution.

you know, before unions.

... You might want to check the reference to the year on the calendar hanging on your wall.... That is no longer any form of argument relative to defending unions today.

As for defending bad employees, yes they do.....in the same way that defence lawyers defend guilty clients.....they have a right to a defence......I've seen guys lose....and the Union execs actually pleased as hell about it. But they do their job.

Yet the company is presumed guilty in advance... Real fair system considering the employment standards already provides the very protection assumed by the unions.

Unions are something like democracy.....the worst possible system: except for all the others.

The kicker here is that the corporate entity is entirely removed from he 'democratic process'... Yes, yes, I know that many will rebut this comment in a variety of forms, however, based on the simple fact that there is legislation in place that absolutely prohibits the company from bringing in replacement workers in the event of a unilaterally imposed strike (and therefore ceases to generate cash-flow needed to pay unionized employees), please don't use the word 'democratic', or fair or reasonable... It just doesn't fit.

 

[captain morgan]

Nonsense. I know a union employee who was fired. He asked to union to file a grievance on his behalf. They did not. Continuing to lump every union together will only hurt your own credibility.

Without question, the circumstance you forward represents the exception and not the rule... Why don't we look at this from the other side... Unions foster an environment that protects the 'weak', and does not reward the 'strong'. The reality is that those individuals that produce above and beyond the norm often leave to access opportunities outside unionized environments in order to capture greater compensation. Conversely, those that under-produce are attracted to unionized environments in order to preserve their positions.

Not a pleasant prognosis, but it is realistic.

 

[Diarygirl]

My hubby works under the union. The problem some have with it is that in my hubbys case they have many inept workers who scream race whenever they get the chance. They do minimal sloppy work. This causes projects to be delayed to the point that the company no longer gets the great contracts. Without the great contracts, without the good reputation they don't make money. No money, no employment.

Unions are great for employees. Bad for business. Look at Chrysler. The employees are unwilling to make concetions to their wages and may end up taking Chrysler into bankruptcy and then they will have no jobs. Rather then taking the wage cuts for now with the hopes that Chrysler can pull out, the union and it's employees seems hell bent on protecting their wages at the expense of employment.
Chrysler is trying to work towards longevity. They've gone to Fiat for help building small economically fuel efficient but Fiat refuses to do business with them until they get their employees under control. Chrysler could well be gone.
Unions need to work with the company that's paying the wages. Not against.

I agree (especially if the wages are high) it doesn't make sense not to take a cut in pay when closure is at risk. Where do you go once the company folds? Especially if you've only worked within a certain field. People have mortgages, car payments, etc., etc., what will they do after the fact??

 

[Cannuck]

Without question, the circumstance you forward represents the exception and not the rule... Why don't we look at this from the other side... Unions foster an environment that protects the 'weak', and does not reward the 'strong'. The reality is that those individuals that produce above and beyond the norm often leave to access opportunities outside unionized environments in order to capture greater compensation. Conversely, those that under-produce are attracted to unionized environments in order to preserve their positions.

I've been involved in three unions in my life and that was not the case in any of them. In fact, those individuals that produce above and beyond the norm often leave any job they are in. That is the nature of self improvement.

 

[pegger]

Colpy, wow I had no idea. For you unions are essential. That's terrible!

You know - my whole paradigm of Colpy (and Cannuck) is shattered at the moment.

I'm at a loss now - and will likely be confused for the rest of the day.

 

[Risus]

Look up the page to post number 11......and you will see how we are "protected" by labour standards in New Brunswick.

New Brunswick is backward anyway. How about talking about the rest of the country...

 

[Risus]

Without question, the circumstance you forward represents the exception and not the rule... Why don't we look at this from the other side... Unions foster an environment that protects the 'weak', and does not reward the 'strong'. The reality is that those individuals that produce above and beyond the norm often leave to access opportunities outside unionized environments in order to capture greater compensation. Conversely, those that under-produce are attracted to unionized environments in order to preserve their positions.

Not a pleasant prognosis, but it is realistic.

Exactly. Unfortunately some just don't understand it...

 

[captain morgan]

I've been involved in three unions in my life and that was not the case in any of them. In fact, those individuals that produce above and beyond the norm often leave any job they are in. That is the nature of self improvement.

Some years back, I worked a summer position in the mining sector that was run by a union (Shipbuilders Union oddly enough) and found that there was no contention between company and union... Never saw and never heard of any problems, albeit I was only a temporary/pseudo member with no benefits... The situation at this company was that they did treat the employee base well and the employees, in return, worked hard and had latitude with the company (within reason).... This begs the question, why was the union needed there at all?

I'd wager that the majority of the small local unions are this way.. The big problem lies with the big unions that want to be the tail that wags the dog. We've seen it in the auto industry in Ontario, nurses and teachers unions in most provinces. These unions are large and strong enough that they can effectively shut down an entire industry/service at their discretion... The employer often has no recourse other than to wait for settlement.

If they are such a beneficial body, why can't they exist without legislation that protects them?