Quebec shouldn't separate from Canada

[cub1c]

Look stop your reductive propaganda against Québec for a minute because it's so unproductive and annoying.

Trying to insinuate Québec as no plan after sovereignty is really underestimating us. To your eyes, every province is poor, and the federation is there to help everybody. This is reductive.

Come on. You are clearly not ready to open your mind enough so that I can show you what a sovereign Québec would be. Are you willing to let down the barriers and really inform yourself correctly about the separatism movement without calling it propaganda? I don't think so.

But just in case, here's a link:
Opening Québec to the world
Babelfish-it or learn French. But please, if you read it, read all.

You can also start learning about a distinct nation called Québec, a nation right here, in your Canada. Here's a link so you can make you're firsts steps:

Vigile.net

I wont tell you whatever goods we will be exporting. Instead I'll tell you what we will be mostly proud of exporting: socially implied people from culture from all over the world, fully informed of Québec's culture, history, values and aspiration, speaking 3 languages, exposing themselves to the world.
Québec culture exportation, you like that? I love it.

In recent years, more and more nation are getting independance and got their siege in UN. And since then, can you find a case of one sovereign nation wanted to revoke the independance? No.

This is Québec's faith.

 

[cub1c]

RE: Quebec shouldn't sepa

Firsts Nations?

I a sovereign Québec, I see Firsts Nations with their own political party.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

All this talk amounts to nothing...

From where I sit, in my comfy chair, smack in the middle of Canada, it looks to me like a few disgruntled fat bastards with bad teeth started commiserating back in the 60's and got you youngsters all fired up...

I say whatever dudes...you wanna go, go...

...but that's gonna be one hell of a border to defend against Canadian smugglers and pissed off red-neck federalists...

 

[cub1c]

...but that's gonna be one hell of a border to defend against Canadian smugglers and pissed off red-neck federalists...

They are welcome, we will teach them French for free. :wink:

 

[jackd]

No Importance:
Obviously, by living in BC, you don't have too much knowledge of Quebec maters;

If you want to do trade with other countries Quebec will have to set up trade offices, consulates and embassies in other countries

.
You should have checked before maing this statement. Quebec remains the leader in terms of international activities. In order to promote its own interests and play a vibrant role on the international scene, Québec now has over twenty offices abroad. The functions and administrative status of the offices vary with the city and the country. Depending on their mandate, they may deal with economic and trade issues, immigration, cultural and educational affairs, tourism, institutional relations, or intergovernmental cooperation, in addition to promoting Québec in a more general sense. You can complete your knowledge bases
right here:
http://www.mri.gouv.qc.ca/en/ministere/allocutions/textes/2004/2004_09_02_Harvard.asp

 

[cub1c]

I knew we had embassades and office abroard and I didn't feel like pointing this to him, since he's pretty ignorant.

 

[s_lone]

Quebecers are not naive to the point that they believe Quebec would become Utopia after seperation. We understand quite well that we'd have to face many serious challenges. But gees, i'm happy to live in a place where people are ready to take risks and take things in their own hands.

For the last 10 years or so we just keep hearing how globalization is unstoppable and how seperating would be going against the flow. Well excuse us for wanting to offer at least some decent resistance to that. While I believe in the necessity of uniting the world, in my opinion, the economy of that world is very twisted and it's all about profit and barbaric self-interest, while it should really be about cooperation. The make-more-money attitude is a dead end and will only lead to future violent clashes between nations. That being said, my own vision of a country of Quebec would at least try to offer a resistance to that (but that's really my own view...)

 

[cub1c]

I think people seeing our ideas and values as utopia are jeleaous minds.

 

[Chake99]

RE: Quebec shouldn't sepa

I for one don't think Quebec should seperate. I really like the fact that Canada is a bilingual country, despite the fact I am still learning french, and I think it would be a great blow to Canada to lose Quebec.

However I have to agree with No1important that if Quebec seperates it will worsen the standard of living, it will suddenly be much less desirable for companies.

Cub1c I hear what your saying and it sounds like it would be awesome for Quebec, but for some reason it sounds like some impossibly good dream; I don't see how Quebec seperating would spur an era where informed Quebecois would spread over the globe and would educate the world being "fully informed of Québec's culture, history, values and aspirations."

However, if you guys really want to leave who are we to stop you?

I honestly wish that the Federal government stopped pouring money into Quebec to bribe you and you guys just made up your minds.

Though I think it would be a real pity if you guys left.

 

[no1important]

I knew we had embassades and office abroard and I didn't feel like pointing this to him, since he's pretty ignorant.

:roll:

No Importance:
Obviously, by living in BC, you don't have too much knowledge of Quebec maters;

:roll:

 

[cub1c]

Though I think it would be a real pity if you guys left.

I know, I feel the same. But you have to understand that if we don't leave, our culture is threatened (not only by Canadian you know!).

Yeah I know, some people think it's not true at all. But I have to remind them one thing, when Canada was founded, it was 100% French.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Yeah I know, some people think it's not true at all. But I have to remind them one thing, when Canada was founded, it was 100% French.

Actually no...it was a combination of French and Cree, Ojibwa, Sioux, Algonquin, and many others languages spoken by the First Nations people...so I fail to see what point you have to make here...

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Found this gem while researching the separtists movement...

In appealing for U.S. sympathy, Quebec has the most powerful argument in the world: by un-creating Canada, Quebec will be creating a new North America, more sensibly organized than the bizarre pattern today, in which people who speak the same language are divided but people who speak different languages are thrown together. Quebec's separation would so disrupt Canada that it is likely that several or even all of the remaining provinces would apply for statehood in the United States, and thus fulfill, at last, the dream of the Founding Fathers: a united Anglo-America under the Constitution of the United States.

In that such a larger American Union would be Quebec's best friend, largest trading partner, and protector against any military danger, it is very much in Quebec's interest to promote integration of English Canada into the United States. If Quebec points out that its separation would greatly aid such a progressive reworking of the map of North America, it stands to win over large segments of U.S. public opinion to Quebec's side.

Accession of English Canada to the Union would make the United States the largest country on Earth, add over 20 million speakers of U.S.-accented English to its population, and hugely increase its resource base. You must make Americans understand that it would be insane for the United States to cheer for Canadian unity, because Canada was created by the British Empire against the United States, and the line drawn by that Empire to keep the resources of the north beyond U.S. reach still keeps those resources beyond reach. The breakup of Canada, by contrast, would likely result in erasing that line and bringing all those resources into the U.S. realm. Thus it is not the unity of Canada (against U.S. annexation) but the breakup of Canada that is in the United States' best interest. So much is it in U.S. interest, indeed, that the U.S. should be doing everything in its power to help Quebec separate!

...so not only would Quebec relegate english speaking residents of their "country" to the role of second class citizens, they would sell out the rest of english speaking Canada to the United States to gain trading collateral...

...I have to wonder how many Quebeccers truly see this as a viable option...

 

[cub1c]

so not only would Quebec relegate english speaking residents of their "country" to the role second class citizens

Are you saying french speaking people citizen have a second class role in Canada? whoooaa

As for your paper (that I would like the link), I find it as pretty alarming.

Although the author may look at bit too far in the future, I'll explain my personnal opinion about this.

I think that in a country there is 2 powerful resources. Natural resources and cultural resources. In my humble separatist opinion, and what I get from the medias, newspapers and newswebsites, it seems that the Americans has pretty much invaded your cultural resources. So there is nothing absurd about thinking that natural resources could be next, if you look at history. You share the same language! It's not bad, but it makes you more enclined to feel unity towards American, thus enhancing your chances of been dragged into their system and economy.

I don't know what this paper tells you, but it should make a red light flash on the dashboard. If Québecers, a minority in Canada, have to fight NOW for their independance, Canada, being a minority in North America, the ROC will be next to do it.

You have to understand that the separatist option is not just Québec's business, but there is also BC and Alberta considering it. So it makes 3 provinces thinking about it, but one that really have the guts to do it NOW.

So I really think all provinces SHOULD start NOW starting working toward indepedance, because if they are waiting for that text to become reality, you will have already miss the train.

And another thing about auto-assimilation of our immigrants, citizens, that you say is like gun-pointing english people to learn French; each nation has the right to AUTO-ASSIMILATE their citizen. We are not asking the world to learn French (English doing a great job at it), we are asking that in our province, since our recognized and official language is French, to speak it. There is nothing wrong with that, all country's does it! And it is good!

Remember, lot's of country's around the world shares the same exact cause as the Québécois.

 

[LadyC]

THe link is at the top of his post.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

And another thing about auto-assimilation of our immigrants, citizens, that you say is like gun-pointing english people to learn French; each nation has the right to AUTO-ASSIMILATE their citizen. We are not asking the world to learn French (English doing a great job at it), we are asking that in our province, since our recognized and official language is French, to speak it. There is nothing wrong with that, all country's does it! And it is good!

This is something that I would like to think that Canada would prevent from happening...

I found another article on the subject of Quebec's separation...unfortunately, it's not the entire article, but gives a good feel for how the current administration would view a separation in Canada...

Council on Foreign Relations

In case you don't know, the CFR is an extremely right-wing American thinktank, on par with the Trilateral Commission and Project for a New American Century...very nasty people...

That they would have anything at all to say about Quebec's separation sends shivers down my spine... :confused1:

 

[cub1c]

This is something that I would like to think that Canada would prevent from happening...

What??? This is really degrading and negative for Québecois population and people saying things like that (mainly federalists) only makes the sovereignty movement stronger over the years.

As for the text you brought up, Québec people are not that stupid. We can't even control our image within Canada, you think American people have any idea of what Québec is? Any respectful and informed Québecers knows that Americans don't have a /*("&$ clue we exist. With what you know about Americans, how can you associate Québécois with any movement down there? Like if we are responsible for what they say.

And you should search more recent articles about separatism (this one is almost 10 years old!). But you will have a hard time finding them since most of the good ones are written in French. But you probably see French articles and documents as propaganda.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

But you will have a hard time finding them since most of the good ones are written in French.

Yeah...funny how that works...

But you probably see French articles and documents as propaganda.

That's not a very nice thing to say...8O

I'm researching now the extent to which Canada has submitted its sovereignty to globalization efforts...sadly, I'm finding that the separation of Quebec is tied in there quite snugly...I'll post my findings when my research is complete...

 

[cub1c]

But you will have a hard time finding them since most of the good ones are written in French.

Yeah...funny how that works...

I don't find this funny at all. In what language you address important issues to your citizens? Probably not in japaneese!

But you probably see French articles and documents as propaganda.

That's not a very nice thing to say...8O

I'm generalizing the issue, I didn't meant you, Vanni Fucci :wink:

 

[cub1c]

RE: Quebec shouldn't sepa

And also, by the way, for all the 245 years that the sovereignty movement existed, I find no evidence of the US helping the Québecers to get what they are entitled to get.

A sovereign Québec will work toward unity in North America, and for sure, will be making deals with US.

I know this will scare you off, but here's the plain truth: if Americans are human enough to recognized that we need a French country in this North America, I think any Québecers will be proud of this support and accept it. In this way, Québecers could feel lot more united toward US than Canada! It will be written in all history books that US is the country that gave independance to Québec. How can this be bad for them? They will be rewarded for the country that freed us! Federalist are so scare of that, and I understand!

If US stands with us in this independance, Canada have a lost battle in their hands.

Their support may only be driven by ecomonics, money or whatever, but I can assure you this: the Republican agenda won't stand a chance in here.

It may have been the first time you heard of that hypothesis, but I heard it a couple of times.

France did the same thing in 1980 referendum, the great General Chales de Gaule came in Québec and said: VIVE LE QUEBEC LIBRE! (Long live the free Québec!) From this moment, this phrase is in all Québecers mind.

If France helped us (I'm pretty sure they will do the same again) in the past, why not the US? The reasons may differ though.