Public Education in 2020

bob the dog

Electoral Member
Aug 14, 2020
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225
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Not seeing anyone talking about the school system. Maybe it's just me.

Doug Ford mentioned public education is costing the Province of Ontario $25 billion annually. Even if Ontario is the biggest spender the industry is likely $100 billion nationwide. It's a lot of money. Is it well spent?

Can't argue that the educators have their hands full and individual attention is not always easy to give. Do we really need to send six year old children off to school in the first place is now my question. What is the real point? It's not like many are ready for anything other than to continue on learning after secondary school. Going to school is easy. Kids do it now until they are thirty. There is no accountability for the school to ensure adult preparedness. Almost the opposite where it is the responsibility of the parents to raise the children. Generation after generation is falling into this gap.

What if kids stayed home until they were eighteen and the Province of Ontario pares down it's deficit a bit? I believe the kids would be better prepared to make a career choice if they did. The automatic flow to university with no goal really only delays life.

The real trouble is that the industry now is too big to fail and it has become more about the jobs than the student development. Online education is already popular and easily accessible. The bureaucracy is out of control with all the psychologists for seven year olds and reading specialists making six figures to read "no I can't, said the ant." Educational institutions need students more than students need educational institutions.

Just saying there is very questionable value in carrying on down the same path. Parents would do a better job of preparing their child.

Everything the government puts toward education is for the benefit of the current system. When they throw more money to settle with teachers at $92,000 per it pushes the school division salary's into the $200,000. every school needs about three of those guys.

Sorry about the less than well organized rant. I hope the general idea comes across.

Sometimes we do things because that is the way we have done things even when the original objective of doing so no longer makes the sense it did in the first place.
 

Walter

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 28, 2007
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How does the voucher system work?
Parent is given the money (voucher) the state would spend to send a child to school. Parent then chooses which school to send the child to using said voucher. If the chosen school requires more money than is in the voucher the parent has to make up the difference.
 

Jinentonix

Executive Branch Member
Sep 6, 2015
7,828
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Olympus Mons
Not seeing anyone talking about the school system. Maybe it's just me.

Doug Ford mentioned public education is costing the Province of Ontario $25 billion annually. Even if Ontario is the biggest spender the industry is likely $100 billion nationwide. It's a lot of money. Is it well spent?
No. Most European countries spend somewhat less per capita on education than Canada and yet they have better results.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
95,706
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Parent is given the money (voucher) the state would spend to send a child to school. Parent then chooses which school to send the child to using said voucher. If the chosen school requires more money than is in the voucher the parent has to make up the difference.
That's how it works in SK. Funding follows the student rather than funding going to the district the student lives in.
 

bob the dog

Electoral Member
Aug 14, 2020
386
225
43
Seems the total cost of public education in Canada is likely more than 100 billion. I am not seeing any type of return on that investment.

It comes out as a wash because of the jobs provided but those jobs are not productive jobs that create additional value. If Jeff Bezos has 100 B invested he is looking for a return. I'm not seeing it. Kids graduate high school and then go to university. Most don't have a plan but learn about student loans and the ability to extend that existence. 75% of the time it comes back to the parents that put the kids in the system 25 years prior to step up and help out.

Private schools would still exist for those interested. I suspect a huge move toward online education is already underway. I'm actually told kids at school watch the online tutorials. Different institutions would emerge to cater to the market. Community club sports programs. Cadets. All kinds of things could happen.

Yet we lumber along with this system that really accomplishes very little and yet costs so much. It rewards non productivity. There is no accountability.

A large portion of my property tax bill is related to education and the more I pay the more the school division superintendent makes. Tell me if you would miss him if he didn't show up for work one day.
 
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mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Something must be done about this.

We need a Conservative party to -- oh, oh right, about that...

....





...........







Well, THAT's not socialist!

It's actually communist since every parent is given the same amount.

Walter is a communist.

Someone please take care of him and dispose of the body sensibly.
 
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bob the dog

Electoral Member
Aug 14, 2020
386
225
43
Here's another 2 billion. "They" are spending it like chump change.

End effect will be a 3% increases for all and lower productivity. One teacher with assistant for twelve kids. They will watch online tutorials together.

Upper level management is the one who needs to be looking to the future. I'm not seeing anything beyond looking past the end of their nose.
 
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taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
32,473
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Seems the total cost of public education in Canada is likely more than 100 billion. I am not seeing any type of return on that investment.
It comes out as a wash because of the jobs provided but those jobs are not productive jobs that create additional value. If Jeff Bezos has 100 B invested he is looking for a return. I'm not seeing it. Kids graduate high school and then go to university. Most don't have a plan but learn about student loans and the ability to extend that existence. 75% of the time it comes back to the parents that put the kids in the system 25 years prior to step up and help out.
Private schools would still exist for those interested. I suspect a huge move toward online education is already underway. I'm actually told kids at school watch the online tutorials. Different institutions would emerge to cater to the market. Community club sports programs. Cadets. All kinds of things could happen.
Yet we lumber along with this system that really accomplishes very little and yet costs so much. It rewards non productivity. There is no accountability.
A large portion of my property tax bill is related to education and the more I pay the more the school division superintendent makes. Tell me if you would miss him if he didn't show up for work one day.
But the present system creates lots of high paying government union jobs. The quality of the product is irrelevant.
 
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taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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Something must be done about this.
We need a Conservative party to -- oh, oh right, about that...
....
...........
It's actually communist since every parent is given the same amount.
Walter is a communist.
Someone please take care of him and dispose of the body sensibly.
Relax you still have retard of the year in the bag.
 
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bob the dog

Electoral Member
Aug 14, 2020
386
225
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But the present system creates lots of high paying government union jobs. The quality of the product is irrelevant.

Not only high paying but very low productivity. Main thing is they can all afford to pay their mortgage.

University is almost as funny and depends on students to function as they do.

I would like to see the issue addressed. Canadian Tax Payers Federation where are you?
 
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Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
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Not only high paying but very low productivity. Main thing is they can all afford to pay their mortgage.
University is almost as funny and depends on students to function as they do.
I would like to see the issue addressed. Canadian Tax Payers Federation where are you?
What solution would you recommend?
 

bob the dog

Electoral Member
Aug 14, 2020
386
225
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What solution would you recommend?

I would like to see an evolution toward an online system with responsibility and ultimate accountability placed with the family unit to meet whatever standards are set. Home schooling if you like for basic education. Private schools and tutors would still be there for those that choose that route. The other option would be online.

If the grads were coming out of high school prepared to do anything other than continue learning I might feel differently. So many take a year off and then head off to university for another 4 to 6 yrs and then take whatever job they can get, often unrelated to their training. As long as they can pay their mortgage.

People don't think of education as an industry but it is a very vibrant industry with many great paying jobs and little accountability. Don't upset the boss and hang on for the ride.

The original plan was what worked for that time. Those times have changed but we don't want to adjust.

So much money going out with so little benefit to society.

Thank you for asking.
 

bob the dog

Electoral Member
Aug 14, 2020
386
225
43
I can't see making Christmas before all schools are shut down again. Another year for the pension though.

Ram the kids through and say good enough and good luck.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Mississauga, ON
Homeschooling is commonly used as a way to indoctrinate children into social conservatism.

It's not gonna fly in Ontario unless there are specific, publicly funded qualification criteria that parents must follow in order to become certified teachers.

You would then need to have home teachers regularly submit test results that show they adhered to regulatory standards and curriculum.
 
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Serryah

House Member
Dec 3, 2008
4,142
115
63
New Brunswick
Here's why home schooling won't work:

School is also babysitting for parents.


Considering it takes both parents nowadays to be able to afford kids, you can't keep one of them home to teach. Hell, look at how most parents dealt with Covid, okay for a while, then freaking out when they realize their precious ISN'T so awesome and a right royal brat when it comes to education.

So no, you're not gonna get home schooling/home education to be a thing ever.