Psychology today

[Praxius]

Psychology today is like sex without reaching an orgasm. In order to progress one must leave the confines of humanities discipline for chemistry and physics.
My study into psychology just happened. I was jilted by a couple of boyfriends and needed answers. As far as I could tell I was OK, they were OK, yet they walked away from a good relationship. Why? I began reading, starting with the Freudian school, which soon showed its shortcomings, yet they deserve full credit for having recognized that dreams do have meaning. Unable to proceed they turned to behaviourism and travel that road ever since, even though at one point it too will arrive to a dead end but who is to contradict them? By now they have established authority in the discipline and largely unchallenged took their place in society with secure incomes. They are called expert witnesses at court and their testimony counts.............

"I sense your skeptical of Pshychology, How does this make you feel?"

Anyways, we all have our own ideas and beliefs on what this existence is all made up from, but you, I, nor anybody else will ever truly know and no voice in your head would ever truly give you the real answers.

If God really did tell you all of this, the same God we're all to believe to be the one we've been told about for centuries..... why would he or she just hand you these answers so easily to share with everyone else so suddenly, rather than allowing us all to figure this stuff out for ourselves?

I've gone on some pretty interesting adventures in my youth which showed me all sorts of things about the Universe, our existence, life, death, the connection between all living things and all atoms that makes up this universe, etc. etc.... I never saw any one being in the centre of it all controlling everything or to provide the answers, because there simply isn't one.....

Keep in mind, my little adventures weren't just created out of a whim of my mind or a dream I had one night, let alone from my pet telling me a story..... they occurred from a pretty good mix of Cigarettes, Marijuana, 2 hits of LSD and some Ecstasy.... the shrooms came the next day.

The point being is that the only time most people ever make sense of the world around them is when they're completely out of their mind, and generally most other people would never take what they experienced seriously because of this because they'll just think they're friggin nuts...... and they're probably right, which is why I don't go around pushing my beliefs and only share them when asked.

Oh wait.... I wasn't asked to explain the above.... whoops.... just forget everything I said.

To sum up.... if what you believe makes you happy and helps you make sense of the world around you so you can carry on and enjoy life, then all the power to you, embrace it..... but don't try and share it with others or force it on them, because it always ends up as an epic fail...... everybody needs to find their own answers in their own way, in their own time and when they're ready.

If you try and force it upon others, they won't make sense of it, they'll think it's nuts and pass you off as a nut bar..... simply because you're not speaking the same language as they are, telepathy or not.

And if it was that easy to tell everybody what the meaning to life was all about, then you'd ruin all the fun in life and it'd be no different than telling someone how a book ends before they reach the end.

Besides, if we're all placed on this planet due to some great plan and everything is all laid out via Destiny.... then again, where the hell is the fun in that? Where's the chance? Where's the fun in being predictable?

One way to prove Destiny doesn't exist is for every single person on the planet to kill themselves right now and end the existence of humanity..... now you come to two outcomes with that:

#1 - Destiny doesn't exist, because we just thwarted this big grand plan for ourselves, or

#2 - Destiny does exist and all of us killing each other and suddenly ending humanity the way we did was what was planned..... and if that's the case, whoever wrote that Destiny wrote a very stupid ending to the story and made our entire existence & accomplishments throughout time completely pointless and a total waste of time....... and whoever wrote up this Destiny deserves a good swift kick in the genitals.

If you look at our ability to domesticate animals, and the fact that they would even have, essentially, a switch which turns their genes into domestication mode, you can't help but wonder what on earth rigged up the system so in favour of us.

Actually this isn't unique to humans.

Ant colonies keep bristletails to keep the nest clean of scraps.They also keep rove beetles, even feeding and grooming them. They also herd aphids similar to what we do with cattle. They protect the aphids, breed them, and make sure they have enough to eat. In exchange, the aphids excrete a sugary solution that the ants eat for energy, much like how we milk our cows.

And while dogs can be trained to herd sheep.... they in turn train the sheep by herding them.

Then you have cooperation between different species to hunt a certain prey.... or one species keeping a lookout while another feeds, rests or gets water & vice versa...... is that a type of training or simple cooperation? If it's just cooperation, then how did that cooperation originate?

 

[talloola]

Well, like I said before, science can only deal with physical reality.

yes, and for many, that is it,( as it is for me),that is what they live by, what they see and feel, what is proven in science,
and what makes sense to them, they do not feel any need to try to imagine anything beyond that.
And, physical reality includes all of one's thoughts.

I also have a vivid imagination, and it's fun to use it, but it never gets mixed up with my reality.

what is outside of reality,(outside of the world of science and physical reality) is what some believe according to how they perceive it, or imagine it, and
I guess that is what makes sense to them, but doesn't mean any of it is 'real' at all, can't be shown
to anyone or proven to anyone.

imagination is a very strong emotion.

 

[Cliffy]

Well, like I said before, science can only deal with physical reality.

yes, and for many, that is it,( as it is for me),that is what they live by, what they see and feel, what is proven in science,
and what makes sense to them, they do not feel any need to try to imagine anything beyond that.
And, physical reality includes all of one's thoughts.

I also have a vivid imagination, and it's fun to use it, but it never gets mixed up with my reality.

what is outside of reality,(outside of the world of science and physical reality) is what some believe according to how they perceive it, or imagine it, and
I guess that is what makes sense to them, but doesn't mean any of it is 'real' at all, can't be shown
to anyone or proven to anyone.

imagination is a very strong emotion.

Actually, I'm not trying to push anything. But I have this built in mechanism that when someone says the truth or reality is only one way, then I need to challenge it, because the views of truth and reality are as numerous as there are people. To say anything can only be one way is to negate those who believe otherwise and thus alienate them. The debate about the nature of reality is no different than the one between Christianity and Islam. And we know where that has lead - 1400 years of war, mayhem and murder. I don't even want people to accept the possibility of other realities, just that others may perceive it differently. It just makes getting along easier and the possibility of peace that much closer.

I have been blessed with the privilege of having had experiences with the indigenous people that was outside the realm of possibility in our society. I say privileged because not many outsiders have had that opportunity. When I entered into their world I had no idea what would happen. I had no expectation. No imagination or drugs were involved. Although I have tried, I have not been able to duplicate those experiences on my own. All I can say is that at the time I was able to lose my mind - my socially conditioned mind, to see reality from a different perspective.

I have had many adventures in my life but my favourite have always been adventures of the mind and the spirit. After what I had been through, I dedicated myself to expanding my views to encompass a greater view of reality, expanded awareness. It is not for everyone, just like rock climbing and hang gliding are not for everyone.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Well, like I said before, science can only deal with physical reality.

Physical reality is all there is, there's no good evidence to suggest there's anything else, all properly controlled tests consistently fail to find anything. All those other things you talk about are manifestations of electrochemical states in the brain and have no reality beyond that.

 

[Cliffy]

Physical reality is all there is, there's no good evidence to suggest there's anything else, all properly controlled tests consistently fail to find anything. All those other things you talk about are manifestations of electrochemical states in the brain and have no reality beyond that.

I would not expect any other answer from you. Stepping outside the socially conditioned mind is not easy for those who do not want to shake their faith in their belief system.

 

[petros]

The vast majority of true geniuses are complete nutjobs. If they weren't nutjobs they would never see what they see then bring those visions back to manifest it in our reality.

 

[karrie]

Actually this isn't unique to humans.

Ant colonies keep bristletails to keep the nest clean of scraps.They also keep rove beetles, even feeding and grooming them. They also herd aphids similar to what we do with cattle. They protect the aphids, breed them, and make sure they have enough to eat. In exchange, the aphids excrete a sugary solution that the ants eat for energy, much like how we milk our cows.

And while dogs can be trained to herd sheep.... they in turn train the sheep by herding them.

Then you have cooperation between different species to hunt a certain prey.... or one species keeping a lookout while another feeds, rests or gets water & vice versa...... is that a type of training or simple cooperation? If it's just cooperation, then how did that cooperation originate?

A good point, but, last I knew, they may herd and keep bugs, animals may cooperate, but there is no characteristic difference, no actual domestication. Whereas animals we domesticate will actually change in the way they look.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

I would not expect any other answer from you. Stepping outside the socially conditioned mind is not easy for those who do not want to shake their faith in their belief system.

That's about what I expected from you too. You must label my world view as a faith so that you can level the same criticisms against it as are directed against other forms of faith. You're the one with the belief system, I'm operating on the evidence. All available evidence points to matter and its interactions being the fundamental reality, there's no good evidence that there's anything more than that. The phenomena you describe are inside your head, there are no external agents causing them except the material world around you, including the people in it. To believe otherwise is to believe on inadequate evidence, with a very high probability of being wrong. Has it not struck you that the more we learn about something, the less willing we are to assign any role to mystical or supernatural forces in it? Any rational person looking at such a consistent trend would not hesitate to conclude that the hypothesized mystical or supernatural forces most likely do not exist. You could profit from a study of all the ways people fool themselves into believing things they want to be true.

The vast majority of true geniuses are complete nutjobs.

Like who, for instance? I'm inclined to think a sweeping generalization like that isn't worth the electrons it took to transmit it. Some of them are, certainly, but among all the people I'd consider to be geniuses, the vast majority seem to be well below the nutjob level.

 

[talloola]

I have had many adventures in my life but my favourite have always been adventures of the mind and the spirit. After what I had been through, I dedicated myself to expanding my views to encompass a greater view of reality, expanded awareness. It is not for everyone, just like rock climbing and hang gliding are not for everyone.

Well, I assume adventures of the mind also include dreams, and I had a dream the other night that left me
thinking after waking, for some time, a very complex dream, many different chapters and people included,
AND, if I was a different sort I might take that dream experience and run with it, but i'm not, and after
the thinking, and interest in the story I manufactured I moved on, left it behind me, and knew it was a
creation from my own mind, (which seems to be a little too active at times, probably because I spend so
much time to myself, and don't socialize much at all, just my husband/friend,/buddy, and daughters,and thats it, so that
leaves me talking to myself lots, in thought, and i'm good with that.)

I haven't had direct experiences with first nations people much at all, knew a few, was related by marriage
to a first nations/spanish/scottish person, does that count? lol
I have watched many western movie series, eg. into the west, and others that have studied the customs and
history of first nations, and they are very very interesting, and I respect very much how they relate to
the earth and also their spiritual life, it is fascinating.
I'm sure the earth and the spiritual life of first nations have a huge impact on their happiness and
stability and helps them to exist on this earth and be part of it, a very close part of it.(i'm not referring to cowboys and indian movies)

I could live with them for years, and never fit in, because I could not believe what they believe. I love paint horses though. lol

 

[Mowich]

My study into psychology just happened. I was jilted by a couple of boyfriends and needed answers. As far as I could tell I was OK, they were OK, yet they walked away from a good relationship. Why?

Well for starters there are a lot of people who might think your belief systems are not compatible with theirs. This is not to say that what you believe is wrong, simply that not everyone would buy into it. I admire your search for understanding.

 

[TenPenny]

My study into psychology just happened. I was jilted by a couple of boyfriends and needed answers. As far as I could tell I was OK, they were OK, yet they walked away from a good relationship. Why?

Probably because they didn't like you.

 

[petros]

Like who, for instance? I'm inclined to think a sweeping generalization like that isn't worth the electrons it took to transmit it. Some of them are, certainly, but among all the people I'd consider to be geniuses, the vast majority seem to be well below the nutjob level.

Stanford Researchers Establish Link Between Creative Genius And Mental Illness

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Interesting, but it doesn't make the case that the vast majority of geniuses are total nutjobs.

 

[petros]

I said TRUE geniuses.

 

[YukonJack]

If Beethoven, one of the greatest composers of music could be deaf (audibly challenged, for the politically correct), no reason to think that some of the most astute and wise observations could not have been voiced by some 'nutjob'.

 

[petros]

If Beethoven, one of the greatest composers of music could be deaf (audibly challenged, for the politically correct), no reason to think that some of the most astute and wise observations could not have been voiced by some 'nutjob'.

Mozart.....what more can be said about genius nutjobs?

 

[Dexter Sinister]

I said TRUE geniuses.

Okay, but if you're going to define your terms to suit yourself, you can make pretty much any claim appear true. I wanted some names. I think we can agree that Nicolai Tesla and John Nash qualify, but how about Max Planck, Neils Bohr, Richard Feynman, James Maxwell, Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawking, Roger Penrose, David Bohm, Ernst Mach, J.B.S. Haldane, Daniel Dennett, Douglas Adams, Richard Dawkins, Jared Diamond, Jacob Bronowski, Brian Greene, Isaac Asimov, Carl Sagan, Kurt Vonnegut, Christopher Hitchens, Charles Darwin... Those are just a few I came up with after a quick scan of the bookshelves around me, and all of them in my considered opinion have displayed genius-level perceptions and insights. Which of them are whackos?

 

[petros]

see above

Okay, but if you're going to define your terms to suit yourself, you can make pretty much any claim appear true. I wanted some names. I think we can agree that Nicolai Tesla and John Nash qualify, but how about Max Planck, Neils Bohr, Richard Feynman, James Maxwell, Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawking, Roger Penrose, David Bohm, Ernst Mach, J.B.S. Haldane, Daniel Dennett, Douglas Adams, Richard Dawkins, Jared Diamond, Jacob Bronowski, Brian Greene, Isaac Asimov, Carl Sagan, Kurt Vonnegut, Christopher Hitchens, Charles Darwin... Those are just a few I came up with after a quick scan of the bookshelves around me, and all of them in my considered opinion have displayed genius-level perceptions and insights. Which of them are whackos?

Einstein......Aspergers

John Nash severe schizophrenic.

I just picked two really quickly...

Hawking ALS...a neurological disorder both physical and mental.

Vonnegut....Bi-Polar.

Remind me of what John Nash's biggest complaint was about being medicated?

 

[YukonJack]

Christopher Hitchens is far more of a nutjob than a genius.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

I just picked two really quickly...

Your claim was that "true geniuses" are almost all "complete nutjobs," which to me means they're unable to cope with life or take care of themselves. That's not the same thing as having a diagnosable disorder, probably most of us after an hour or two with a psychiatrist would come out with some kind of pejorative label on our personalities. Perhaps you could define your terms more carefully, what do "true genius" and "complete nutjob" mean to you? Einstein, for instance, may well have had Asperger's Syndrome, but you'd probably be the first person to describe him as a complete nutjob. ALS, by the way, doesn't usually cause any mental impairment directly, it affects only the motor neurons, though I can certainly understand how depression could be a side effect, but Hawking probably doesn't have it anyway. He's got some other degenerative motor neuron disease, he's way out of line on the statistics, got it far too young and has lived far too long with it.

Christopher Hitchens is far more of a nutjob than a genius.

Surprised you didn't pick Richard Dawkins out of that list too. I can understand why you'd think so, given their public stance against religion (Daniel Dennett's also in that group), but I think they've got it right.