Private property: where to draw the line, and our social responsibilities.

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
I was wondering where you draw the line at private property rights?

At one extreme end of the spectrum, some might say we can do whatever we want with our property. For example, if I want to start a chicken farm in my residential neighbourhood or right next to a patio restaurant, that's my business because it's my property. And if the chicken farm doesn't make enough money, maybe I could convert it to a commercial helicopter landing pad or a coal power plant, a casino, or even a rock-n'-roll stadium. I'm sure the neighbours would appreciate me.

Others would argue that the right to private property is conditional on its impact beyond its boundaries.

Another argument could apply to social advantage. For instance, let's suppose I live in an expensive neighbourhood and my neighbour decides to convert his property into a large apartment complex to alleviate the shortage of affordable housing in the community. On the one hand, this project could hurt my property value. On the other hand, to prohibit him from building the complex could prevent housing from becoming more affordable for the local poor, or alternatively force them to live farther away from work and so have to spend more time and money on transportation. In such a case, when city bylaws interfere with the free market to the detriment of the poor, what obligation does it then have to compensate the poor for such interference in the market?

My personal view would be that the government has a right to regulate the first set of examples above as that has to do with quality of life for local residents. However, I'd tend to oppose government interference in the second example above as it involves the government interfering in the free market to the explicit benefit of the rich over the poor, so as to artificially maintain high property values.

Of course there could be many other viewpoints, but where would you draw the line to the right to private property?

Some of what you mention is where sensible zoning comes in. Properly done there wouldn't be an opportunity for a chicken farm next to a outdoor restaurant or a helicopter pad next to some one's house. I'm for a certain number of regulations like building codes to enhance/ensure people's safety, set backs to protect neighbour property from fire etc. But as for this fricken bullsh*t of no outside clothes lines, they can shove that nonsense where the sun don't shine.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
Will I have to forgo the cutting of firewood so my trees can support your new voucher industry? Seems to me your solutions may unnecessarily complicate things with a lot of paper pushers and permission slips.

Which vouchers? Gerryh's property vouchers or the school vouchers?

As for Gerryh's property vouchers, I have no idea what he has in mind anyway.

As for school vouchers, look to Sweden:

The Case For School Choice: Sweden
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,340
113
Vancouver Island
so then, we should have vouchers for school, vouchers for property, vouchers for medical......... what else should we have vouchers for? How about sex? Should we have vouchers for sex too? I mean if vouchers work so well every where else, sex would be good too...right? I'm sure you can come up with an example of how great sex is in Sweden too(note the double "o"), right?

Is the double "O" for two orgasms?

You only own "to the depth of a plow".

Not necessarily. It depends somewhat on how and when the original title was granted. There are some properties that have subsurface and water rights attached.

Some of what you mention is where sensible zoning comes in. Properly done there wouldn't be an opportunity for a chicken farm next to a outdoor restaurant or a helicopter pad next to some one's house. I'm for a certain number of regulations like building codes to enhance/ensure people's safety, set backs to protect neighbour property from fire etc. But as for this fricken bullsh*t of no outside clothes lines, they can shove that nonsense where the sun don't shine.

Could live in Ocean Falls. No need for a cloths line there.
 

Mowich

Hall of Fame Member
Dec 25, 2005
16,649
998
113
76
Eagle Creek
I think the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is reasonable here:

Article 17.

  • (1) Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.
  • (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.

Then you don't think that property rights need to be enshrined in the Canadian Constitution? You support the status quo?
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
taxslave; Could live in Ocean Falls. No need for a cloths line there.[/QUOTE said:
Yep, I'll bet you could get your clothes washed while wearing them about 350 days a year. No sense drying them, they'd only be dry for two minutes. :lol:
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
117,856
14,419
113
Low Earth Orbit
You really only own the right to pay taxes on "your" land "to the depth of a plow".How many farmers had their land (surface rights) expropriated for the rail right of ways or oil and mineral rights?
I get a cheque from SaskPower for right of way. Railways came before the farmer.
 

cranky

Time Out
Apr 17, 2011
1,312
0
36
I get a cheque from SaskPower for right of way. Railways came before the farmer.

actually farmers came before the railways, but the railways just plowed their way through everything, causing a lot of harm, they actually caused the Lois Riel incident.
 

oldrebel

Nominee Member
Apr 18, 2011
70
0
6
southern ontario
I think everyone should be able to do what he wants with his property within reason. Zoning is necessary in urban areas, obviously you can't have a factory in the middle of a residential area or next to a school.
But I think it's wrong when by-laws exist that make it possible for neighbours to dictate the use/care of your prooperty just becuase they don't like it or because they think it will decrease the value of their property.
We have had incidents in my community where neighbours have objected to the cutting off shrubs on neighbouring properties, the colours a house was painted, parking a boat on private property, that sort of thing, and I don't think that's right.
The municipality restricts the size and type of fence and outbuildings we can build. They requie that we get a permit to cut a tree on our property even if the tree is dead. They dictate how many pets are allowed per household.
I think laws like those are very intrusive and just plain wrong.
It comes down to a matter of common sense and consideration. When we want to build a fende, we consult with our neighbours, tell them our plans, and listen to their thoughts. If we work with our neighbours and be fair, there shouldn't be any need for certain laws.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
117,856
14,419
113
Low Earth Orbit
actually farmers came before the railways, but the railways just plowed their way through everything, causing a lot of harm, they actually caused the Lois Riel incident.
Where the hell did you get that from cranky? Not even close to reality.

How many farmers were there before the railways?
Veggie gardening outside the 20 foot fort walls.
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
9,949
21
38
kelowna bc
It should also be noted that in Canada we do not have the same property rights as
Americans do. We can't compare apples and oranges.
We have to control the use of land through zoning, it is the best way to make sure
properties are kept up and in good condition.
 

oldrebel

Nominee Member
Apr 18, 2011
70
0
6
southern ontario
It should also be noted that in Canada we do not have the same property rights as
Americans do. We can't compare apples and oranges.
We have to control the use of land through zoning, it is the best way to make sure
properties are kept up and in good condition.

What property rights does the U.S. have that we do not have?
 

cranky

Time Out
Apr 17, 2011
1,312
0
36
Where the hell did you get that from cranky? Not even close to reality.

Veggie gardening outside the 20 foot fort walls.
My mistake, it looks like the CPR was guilty of bringing the settlers rather than strong arming them and bullying them into getting out of the way. However, it does look like the CPR was still guilty of strong arming and bullying the metis
The second métis rebellion had, in fact, been partly caused by the CPR. The métis themselves had wiped out the buffalo. The railroad was bringing settlers to destroy what little remained of their old way of life. Louis Riel was invited by the métis to return to western Canada to set up a provisional government. Troops were brought up on the CPR, the rebellion was easily crushed, and Riel was hanged.

Sir John A Macdonald

For me, it is worth noting that the wikipedia version of history doesn't mention any CPR involvement at all. I wonder if they have PR agents hard at work revising the history books.
 

cranky

Time Out
Apr 17, 2011
1,312
0
36
The CPR still is one of the few coporations that is allowed to have a fully armed security force because they fall under federal jurisdicions. I would imagine the CPR involvement is much more grossem that was I am able to find on the internet.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
117,856
14,419
113
Low Earth Orbit
Any group or corporation ( a city, town, municipality, county is a corporation) can hire and arm a police force. Look it up.

Who or what owned the CPR?