Pope's speech stirs Muslim anger
- Thread starter I think not
- Start date
Wednesday's Child said:
You could just as easily pull violent quotes out of the bible: Link
Link
Link
Luckily, the vast majority of Christians and Muslims don't take these things literally. Unfortunately there are a minority of Muslims who do, but they are in the minority.
EDIT: as Colpy pointed out, I should have said the majority of Jews and Muslims (not Christians) as this is from the Old Testament.
WOW!
I find it REALLY hard to believe you folks are SO obtuse thatyou can't tell the difference between the instructions of the Koran and the text of the Bible.
First of all, the texts quoted above are stories of what happened, or tales of violence (if you can call it that) done by GOD!!! (for cryin' out loud)
Second of all, they are all Old Testament..........NOT the basis of the Christian religion. That would be the New Testament, in which God creates a new relationship with mankind.
Thirdly NO WHERE in the New Testament will you find ANY instruction for the faithful to go forth and murder unbelievers.....,.and that is the entire crux of the argument. In fact, Christ defends the adulterous woman, and punishment for unbelievers is left to God in the hereafter..........THIS however, appears in the Koran:
A religion of peace?
Don't make me laugh.
It will be nice when religion finally goes the way of the dinosaurs. We will be able to study the bones without worrying if we are going to be attacked by wild animals trying to devour us.
Colpy said:
Colpy,
I think you missed my point. My point is that just because something is written in a holy book, whether it be the bible or the quran, does not mean that the followers of that religion necessarily abide by it. For example, in deuteronomy 21:18-21 God says that anyone with a stubborn & rebellious son should stone him to death. I don't see anyone these days, Christian or Jewish, stoning people to death. Likewise, in the quran it says to kill the infidels, but the majority of muslims are not killing infidels, even if it is written in the quran.
The old testament is the basis of Judaism (and also part of the Christian religion). I edited my last post, so just replace Christian with Jew.
Some more quotes from the Old Testament:
Deuteronomy 13:
I don't see many Jewish people killing others because they worship other Gods. Are you saying that Judaism is not a religion of peace because these things are written in the old testament??
iARTthere4iam: I don't know if you read my post page one, this string:
RELIGIONS DON'T KILL PEOPLE. PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE
I reference quotations from the bible too:
I would not claim these quotations represent modern Judaism or Christianity
Religious scriptures are meant to guide us, not be blindly observed. Otherwise everyone would be like the Christian fanatic who murders doctors referenced previously.
These documents are the common inheritance of man. Each is important.
Tolerance means respect of other beliefs. If you don't respect the beliefs of others, then why should they respect yours? If you are intolerant, why should they be tolerant?
Co-existance is a two way street. It requires compromise and mutal respect.
Some posts above indicate a dangerous lack tolerance, respect or a willingness to compromise. That's how we got here.
I hope not, but the Pope's speech may also indicate the Catholic church has taken a turn in a similar direction.
RELIGIONS DON'T KILL PEOPLE. PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE
I reference quotations from the bible too:
I would not claim these quotations represent modern Judaism or Christianity
Religious scriptures are meant to guide us, not be blindly observed. Otherwise everyone would be like the Christian fanatic who murders doctors referenced previously.
These documents are the common inheritance of man. Each is important.
Tolerance means respect of other beliefs. If you don't respect the beliefs of others, then why should they respect yours? If you are intolerant, why should they be tolerant?
Co-existance is a two way street. It requires compromise and mutal respect.
Some posts above indicate a dangerous lack tolerance, respect or a willingness to compromise. That's how we got here.
I hope not, but the Pope's speech may also indicate the Catholic church has taken a turn in a similar direction.
Laura Schlessinger is a religious radio/tv personality who dispenses advice to people. She has made some statements about homosexuals that have caused the Canadian anti-hate laws to censure her.
The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a US resident, which was posted on the Internet.... ENJOY.
The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a US resident, which was posted on the Internet.... ENJOY.
Gee, I still don't see the command from the Christian God to go forth and slay all the infidels........do you?
Re: RE: Pope's speech stirs Muslim anger
Okay.
I still stand by my point........the passage speaks of punishment for forsaking God for other gods.....it is STILL not a command to go forth and cleanse the earth of unbelievers.
AND, as I pointed out before, the New Testament is the primary script for Christianity. It is the story of a God who sacrifices His Son to create a new understanding and relationship with man.
It IS different.......and Christianity IS a religion of peace.
In fact, the first few generations of Christians were absolute pacifists......rightly or wrongly, that changed.
Compare that to the first generations of Muslims.............
And, I've got to say, I don't understand why you are arguing this stuff. Take a look at the cartoons about Jesus above......no reaction. Take a look at the cartoons about Mohammed.........millions in property damage, more than a few killed, people frightened to death to speak their minds.............I think that in itself settles the argument.
gc said:
Okay.
I still stand by my point........the passage speaks of punishment for forsaking God for other gods.....it is STILL not a command to go forth and cleanse the earth of unbelievers.
AND, as I pointed out before, the New Testament is the primary script for Christianity. It is the story of a God who sacrifices His Son to create a new understanding and relationship with man.
It IS different.......and Christianity IS a religion of peace.
In fact, the first few generations of Christians were absolute pacifists......rightly or wrongly, that changed.
Compare that to the first generations of Muslims.............
And, I've got to say, I don't understand why you are arguing this stuff. Take a look at the cartoons about Jesus above......no reaction. Take a look at the cartoons about Mohammed.........millions in property damage, more than a few killed, people frightened to death to speak their minds.............I think that in itself settles the argument.
Re: RE: Pope's speech stirs Muslim anger
Is there really a difference between killing non-believers and killing those of other religions??
Fair enough. How about Judaism? Would you say it's a religion of peace (based on the passages I quoted from the Old Testament)?
Yes, and I think some muslims over-reacted big time to those cartoons. I also think most muslims, while they may be offended, would not seek violent revenge. I guess what I'm trying to argue is that Islam can be a peaceful religion for some people. The majority of Muslims, especially in the west, do not commit violence against non-believers. You can make the point that the quran says to kill non-believers, and therefore Islam is a violent religion, but similar things are said in the Old Testament. Yet, I would not consider Judaism to be a violent religion and I hope that you would agree. The reason is that virtually all Jews do not take the violent part literally, and it's not very often that you hear about Jews killing people because they worship different Gods. Likewise, with Islam, most Muslims do not beleive in violence and do not kill non-believers. It is very unfortunate that there are a minority of Muslims who do commit violence in the name of God.
Colpy said:
Is there really a difference between killing non-believers and killing those of other religions??
Fair enough. How about Judaism? Would you say it's a religion of peace (based on the passages I quoted from the Old Testament)?
Yes, and I think some muslims over-reacted big time to those cartoons. I also think most muslims, while they may be offended, would not seek violent revenge. I guess what I'm trying to argue is that Islam can be a peaceful religion for some people. The majority of Muslims, especially in the west, do not commit violence against non-believers. You can make the point that the quran says to kill non-believers, and therefore Islam is a violent religion, but similar things are said in the Old Testament. Yet, I would not consider Judaism to be a violent religion and I hope that you would agree. The reason is that virtually all Jews do not take the violent part literally, and it's not very often that you hear about Jews killing people because they worship different Gods. Likewise, with Islam, most Muslims do not beleive in violence and do not kill non-believers. It is very unfortunate that there are a minority of Muslims who do commit violence in the name of God.
Logic 7 said:
Do you like being known as a retard?
The Peope was consctipted into the German Army... Moron.
Quote from http://bc.edu/research/cjl/meta-elements/texts/cjrelations/topics/new_pope_defied_nazis.htm
"The Ratzingers moved to Traunstein in 1937. The father was anti-Nazi and had to move from the town of Tittmoning to Auschau in 1932 after clashing with local Nazi party supporters.
In Traunstein, resistance came largely from communists, though there were never many in the town of about 12,000 and most were arrested and shipped to the Dachau concentration camp in the early 1930s. Though most were later released, they lived in fear of being returned to the camps, according to Traunstein historian Friedbert Muehldorfer.
Being sent to a concentration camp for not joining the Hitler Youth would have been an ''extreme'' punishment, but ''it was very difficult for youth who didn't join, and they could be ostracized,'' Muehldorfer said. ''It doesn't mean they were enthusiastic about the Nazis.''
The Nazis enjoyed general support in Traunstein, though it was tempered by the conservative Roman Catholicism typical of Bavaria. People were disgruntled with the Nazis' anti-church attitudes and practices such as removing crosses from school classrooms, Muehldorfer said.
The town had only a few Jewish families, largely driven out before the war began in 1939.
In 1943, at age 16, Joseph Ratzinger was called up along with his entire seminary class to work as a helper for anti-aircraft batteries, which defended a BMW plant and later an aircraft factory at Oberpfaffenhofen, where the first German jet fighters were produced.
In 1944, he was forced into the country's compulsory civil service and sent to dig anti-tank ditches on the Austrian-Hungarian border.
He recounts his work group being awakened in the middle of the night and pressured to join the Waffen SS, the combat units of the Nazi Party's elite guard. ''An SS officer had each one come forward and tried, by parading each one in front of the group, to force 'volunteer' enlistments,'' he wrote in another autobiographical book, ''Memoirs 1927-1977.''
Some signed up in ''this criminal group. I had the luck to be able to say that I had the intent to become a Catholic priest. We were sent away with scorn and insults.''
He was drafted into the Army in December 1944 and stationed near Traunstein. With the German army collapsing and the end of the war just days away, he deserted in April or May of 1945 -- he said he can't remember the exact date. He knew he could be killed by SS fanatics, who continued to shoot or hang soldiers found out of uniform up until the end of the war."
DurkaDurka said:
That doesnt matter, if i would have been in his shooes, i would have done anything to get out, anything , even dying, but he choose to follow them, because either he has no balls, or just he agreed with the nazi.
Since this pope, is an insult to any human being,by pretending islam is bad, and christianism is good, means he deserve no respect at all.
Christianism is bad, judaism is bad, and islam is bad, there is nothing to understand, people who follow their religion by the book, are simple minded.
Earth_as_One wrote: Religions don't kill people. People kill people
In some cases this is true, but every time a Muslim commits an Act of Terrorism they do so screaming "In the name of Alah." So they commit these hidious deeds for their faith, in the name of Alah. No?
Not to many Christians, other than anti-abortion fanatics, doing Mass Murders in the name of their "God".
In some cases this is true, but every time a Muslim commits an Act of Terrorism they do so screaming "In the name of Alah." So they commit these hidious deeds for their faith, in the name of Alah. No?
Not to many Christians, other than anti-abortion fanatics, doing Mass Murders in the name of their "God".
I would love to see the Pope address the subject of Muslim protests over his speech by giving them the finger........a kind of defiant benediction, if you will...
Ah, in a perfect world........
Ah, in a perfect world........
Although I have a lot of respect for the Christian faith and its key participation in the development of the western world and sensibility, I do realize today that most of its hardcore practitioners, as with the Muslim faith, live in backward countries in the undeveloped world. It remains for each faith's leaders to lead responsibly. Given what I've seen for years on the street protests in Muslim countries, I know it's not happening there. Hopefully, the pope will prove to be the help and guide he's intended to be.