Pipeline Endangers Species

[dumpthemonarchy]

This is another good reason to stop this pipeline.

Oil can only be exported if it is refined here and shipped by rail to port, not a pipeline. We get 80% of the benefit of the product by refining it. It is like shipping bulk water out of Canada, you ship out jobs. Ship out bottled water and we get the jobs. Oil and water need processing before they are exported, there is no reason to give away the jobs.



Endangered species pose threaten Northern Gateway Pipeline

Endangered species pose threaten Northern Gateway pipeline

 

[Kakato]

So how do you suggest it get shipped?
I wouldn't worry too much about a pipeline wiping out a species.
Wish they would just build some damn refineries in the east and we can ship it there,I'm sure they would welcome the jobs and a very vibrant industry.

I have also seen 5 train derailments in the last 7 years all within 5 miles of my house,one was 100 meters away from my home.
Not exactly a safer or more environmentally friendly way to move crude.

 

[Durry]

There is no money in refining right now. There is surplus refining capacity in NA.
Plus, everybody says we should do refining in Canada until you say you will build it in their back yard. Then you hear the yelping, not in my back yard.. Try building a refinery near Vancouver for instance if you want to hear yelping!!!
Building a refinery in the US is about 15% cheaper than building in Canada, largely due to all the regulations in Canada. If there was a need for another refinery, guess where it would get built??

Shipping by rail is definitely more risky than by pipeline. Today's pipelining technology makes large spills almost obsolete.
Plus, shipping by rail is very very expensive, plus there is all the hazards during loading and emptying the rail cars.
Anyone who advocates shipping oil by rail as a normal shipping medium, hasn't a clue what they're talking about.

The Northern Gateway P/L must go ahead, after its built and operating for a few years, all concerns will go away and everything will return to normal except BC will have more revenue to spend.
BC folks have their knickers in a knot over nothing. Maybe they just don't have anything to complain about.

 

[Kakato]

There is no money in refining right now. There is surplus refining capacity in NA.
Plus, everybody says we should do refining in Canada until you say you will build it in their back yard. Then you hear the yelping, not in my back yard.. Try building a refinery near Vancouver for instance if you want to hear yelping!!!
Building a refinery in the US is about 15% cheaper than building in Canada, largely due to all the regulations in Canada. If there was a need for another refinery, guess where it would get built??

Shipping by rail is definitely more risky than by pipeline. Today's pipelining technology makes large spills almost obsolete.
Plus, shipping by rail is very very expensive, plus there is all the hazards during loading and emptying the rail cars.
Anyone who advocates shipping oil by rail as a normal shipping medium, hasn't a clue what they're talking about.

The Northern Gateway P/L must go ahead, after its built and operating for a few years, all concerns will go away and everything will return to normal except BC will have more revenue to spend.
BC folks have their knickers in a knot over nothing. Maybe they just don't have anything to complain about.

Yet there is an oil drilling boom right now and pipelining is absolutely crazy in Sask and Alberta.
I have spread bosses phoning me every day looking for pipeliners. I dont know where all the oil is going but it must be somewhere.

 

[Durry]

Yet there is an oil drilling boom right now and pipelining is absolutely crazy in Sask and Alberta.
I have spread bosses phoning me every day looking for pipeliners. I dont know where all the oil is going but it must be somewhere.

Yes, things are pretty hectic alright.
I think most of the p/l's your talking about are flow lines or lines part of a gathering system. Yes, as you keep drilling you gotta keep tieing them in alright.

The last time I looked at the western basin production numbers, the decline was still pretty steep and new production coming on stream was not off setting current decline rates.
When I get a chance I'll have another look at the most recent numbers, but I suspect the decline is still continuing. There are a lot of old wells out there that are in steep decline now.

 

[Kakato]

Yes, things are pretty hectic alright.
I think most of the p/l's your talking about are flow lines or lines part of a gathering system. Yes, as you keep drilling you gotta keep tieing them in alright.

The last time I looked at the western basin production numbers, the decline was still pretty steep and new production coming on stream was not off setting current decline rates.
When I get a chance I'll have another look at the most recent numbers, but I suspect the decline is still continuing. There are a lot of old wells out there that are in steep decline now.

Where I am they seem to just drill another one close to the abandoned one,sometimes two wells are drilled on the same lease.
Lots of abandoned wells are now used for injection to get rid of the water.
I'm in Alberta right now but when I left Kindersley sk a few months back they had 1000 wells drilled in that area the first 9 months of this year and still going strong.
Here in Central Alberta we cant build leases fast enough for the new wells to be drilled.
Only reason I'm home now is OHS said I have to take 3 days off.

I have a theory about the patch,any info you hear is valid for about a week tops.

 

[Durry]

Where I am they seem to just drill another one close to the abandoned one,sometimes two wells are drilled on the same lease.
Lots of abandoned wells are now used for injection to get rid of the water.
I'm in Alberta right now but when I left Kindersley sk a few months back they had 1000 wells drilled in that area the first 9 months of this year and still going strong.
Here in Central Alberta we cant build leases fast enough for the new wells to be drilled.
Only reason I'm home now is OHS said I have to take 3 days off.

A 1000 wells, amazing!! Kindersley is a nice area of the country, at least your in civilization.!!

I don't know much about down hole stuff but the two wells drilled on one lease could be due to directional drilling.
I suspect a lot of the recent activities has to do with fracking for both gas and oil. New technology has opened up new opportunities in the old areas that have been drilling before in the conventional manner.

 

[Kakato]

A 1000 wells, amazing!! Kindersley is a nice area of the country, at least your in civilization.!!

I don't know much about down hole stuff but the two wells drilled on one lease could be due to directional drilling.
I suspect a lot of the recent activities has to do with fracking for both gas and oil. New technology has opened up new opportunities in the old areas that have been drilling before in the conventional manner.

Quite true,the LSD for the lease and the downhole LSD are very different,about 800 of those 1000 were directional.
Glad to be out of SK as rooms were very expensive if you could find one.I slept in the silverado hotel in the middle of a Canola field many times this summer.

The service rigs are non stop busy with the new technology.
They punted me over to Alberta to reclaim a lease and I have been doing it the last two months now,three of us can reclaim a full build in 3 days so I lost count of how many so far but as soon as it freezes we will be building more lease sites.

I watched the other day as an outfit brought in 7 dozers to build a site in 2 days.
Glad that wasn't my gig.

 

[Durry]

Quite true,the LSD for the lease and the downhole LSD are very different,about 800 of those 1000 were directional.
Glad to be out of SK as rooms were very expensive if you could find one.I slept in the silverado hotel in the middle of a Canola field many times this summer.

The service rigs are non stop busy with the new technology.
They punted me over to Alberta to reclaim a lease and I have been doing it the last two months now,three of us can reclaim a full build in 3 days so I lost count of how many so far but as soon as it freezes we will be building more lease sites.

I watched the other day as an outfit brought in 7 dozers to build a site in 2 days.
Glad that wasn't my gig.

Interesting stuff alright!!

You might find the first few pages of this CAPP report interesting!!

http://www.capp.ca/getdoc.aspx?DocId=209546&DT=NTV

 

[Kakato]

Very interesting.

Eastern Canada
Refineries located in Ontario, Québec and Atlantic Canada
currently import over half of their crude oil requirements
from offshore foreign suppliers. There is an opportunity
for producers in western Canada to serve this market and
reduce Canada’s exposure to volatile world oil markets.

Table 2.3 Foreign Direct Investment in Oil Sands: 2009-2012
Close Date Investor Project Cost (Million $)*
2012 Jan PetroChina 40% stake in AOSC Mackay River $680
2011 Nov CNOOC Purchased OPTI’s 35 % stake in the Nexen operated
Long Lake Project
US$2,100
2011 Jan PTT Exploration & Prod Purchased 40% stake in Kai Kos Dehseh from Statoil US$ 2,280
2010 Nov Korea Investment Corp Private placement 7.7 million common shares in
OSUM
$100
2010 Aug Korea Investment Corp Private placement 2.5 million common shares in
Laricina
$76.2
2010 Jun Sinopec Purchased 9% of Syncrude from ConocoPhillips US$ 4,650
2010 Jun China Investment Corp 45% JV with Pennwest $817
2010 Feb PetroChina Purchased 60% of MacKay River and Dover $1,900
2009 Dec Korea National Oil Co Acquisition of Harvest Energy Trust $1.8B + assumption
of $2.3B debt
2009 Jul China Investment Corp Private placement for 101.3 million Class B
subordinate voting shares of Teck Resources,
(approx 17.2% equity and 6.7% voting interest).
Teck Resources owns a number of oil sands assets
including a 20% interest in the Fort Hills mining
project and the Frontier leases
$1,740
2009 Apr Sinopec 10% interest in Northern Lights (now 50/50 Total/
Sinopec)

China and other countries securing their oil supply.
They can also sell it back to the eastern refineries from China.
heh!

 

[Locutus]

Somebody think of the sturgeon.

 

[wulfie68]

Oil can only be exported if it is refined here and shipped by rail to port, not a pipeline.

ROFLMAO

Dumpy, I can agree with your assertion that we shouldn't export raw crude/NGLs but rather the refined products: its a belief I have long held, but our business community and governments don't seem to agree. However, you revert to your regular head-up-the-@$$ form with the statement that rail is preferable in any way to a pipeline. I'll leave it just with two facts:

First is one that already has been raised: derailments, or other accidents with moving transport are more far common and likely than failures of properly designed and constructed pipelines. I realize you probably have no exposure to this, but its all about something called utilization of engineering principles: moving parts fail more than stationary ones.

Secondly you have to load and unload railcars, thus dealing with open connections, which increases your chances of multiple small spills by orders of magnitude, in essence almost guaranteeing pollution/soil contamination.

 

[earth_as_one]

This was a polite sharing of information, ideas and opinions... but suddenly it got nasty for no reason...

 

[L Gilbert]

This was a polite sharing of information, ideas and opinions... but suddenly it got nasty for no reason...

.... other than Dumpy's usual ill-thought-out comments.

 

[taxslave]

.... other than Dumpy's usual ill-thought-out comments.

Why be quiet and be thought a fool when you can open your yap and remove all doubt?

 

[skookumchuck]

The simple fact of life regarding business is that of corporations turning the most profit from the least expenditure, thus shipping raw product. No different from the shipping of raw logs out of BC. They will do what they can get away with, that is business regardless of the smoke and mirrors.

 

[Durry]

The simple fact of life regarding business is that of corporations turning the most profit from the least expenditure, thus shipping raw product. No different from the shipping of raw logs out of BC. They will do what they can get away with, that is business regardless of the smoke and mirrors.

Yes, the role of business is to make money for their shareholders.
Launching a particular project is launching an investment, expenditures as you refer to it. So the company must make a return on their investment if they are to launch a project.

A company will always try to maximize its return on its investment in order to keep their shareholders and stay in business.
There is currently good returns on your investment to extract bitumen from the oil sands and ship the raw product.

But the refining business right now is very competitive and the crack spreads (difference in price between input and output) are very low. So if anyone puts money into building a refinery right now, they will make little if any profit at all, in fact right now with a new refinery, they would probably lose money.

There are companies in the market place that all they do is build and operate refineries. These companies are just breaking even right now operating older refineries.
I don't think anyone expects a company to make an investment if they are going to lose money.

Most of these large companies are public companies and if you want to share in their good fortunes, you can always buy their stock. Then your a shareholder..

 

[Kakato]

Yes, the role of business is to make money for their shareholders.
Launching a particular project is launching an investment, expenditures as you refer to it. So the company must make a return on their investment if they are to launch a project.

A company will always try to maximize its return on its investment in order to keep their shareholders and stay in business.
There is currently good returns on your investment to extract bitumen from the oil sands and ship the raw product.

But the refining business right now is very competitive and the crack spreads (difference in price between input and output) are very low. So if anyone puts money into building a refinery right now, they will make little if any profit at all, in fact right now with a new refinery, they would probably lose money.

There are companies in the market place that all they do is build and operate refineries. These companies are just breaking even right now operating older refineries.
I don't think anyone expects a company to make an investment if they are going to lose money.

Most of these large companies are public companies and if you want to share in their good fortunes, you can always buy their stock. Then your a shareholder..

Anyone with mutual funds is probably a shareholder in the oilsands.

 

[Durry]

Anyone with mutual funds is probably a shareholder in the oilsands.

Your absolutely correct.
These same funds and stocks are also paying dividends which many seniors depend on to provide them with an income stream.

 

[Kakato]

Your absolutely correct.
These same funds and stocks are also paying dividends which many seniors depend on to provide them with an income stream.

The oil industry is keeping Canada alive right now.