Parents pick prayer over doctor; diabetic girl dies

[talloola]

I wonder what they think now that their daughter is dead. I'm almost afraid to think of it, as I think they actually are thanking god for taking their daughter.

I certainly hope there are a few good people to keep an eye on the other children, and
I hope they make it to adulthood, without these two pitiful people doing anything to them too.

 

[amagqira]

Society is judged by the way it treats those who are defenseless, and this includes children and the helpless and infirm.

What troubles me is that this kid seems to have fallen through the cracks - somebody somewhere must have made the diagnosis of childhood diabetis and when no treatment was requested by the parents, where were the social workers who should have followed up?

Trying to use this as an example of stupidity induced by religion is a fallacy since this does not represents main stream religion. These were misguided zealots who represent the fringes of religion.

 

[MikeyDB]

Amagqira

Social workers aren't informed as a matter of routine when a child enters hospital. I can't find any info in the OP that suggests that there was some form of intervention prior to this tragedy so I'm not certain that any social worker failed to follow up.

"Belief" taken to this extreme is well...extremism and no less rational than extremist terrorism.

It's difficult not to react to this situation out of anger, but the lesson to be learned is that regardless of how fervantly the "believer" believes in their particular ideology, nor for that matter how balanced or sane these folk appear to everyone around them, there is the potential for the "believer" to bring great harm to themselve's and everyone around them.

 

[johai]

..Diabetic Girl
Your comment was right on the button and I admire your insight into this matter.

Johai

 

[Praxius]

Excuse me? Arrogant and ignorant little piss ant..aren't ya..... these things didn't happen that long ago, and if you think it can't happen again,:roll: ... read my sig...it applies to you.

Dude, you miss your prozac for the day or somethng? There's being a jerk, much like myself, and then there's arseholes. A jerk knows when to have fun while being a borderline arsehlole, and an arsehole just hates everyone around them and is no fun.

Come here.... let me give you a hug *hugs while being slapped and punched by a sobbing Gerryh due to lack of human physical contact*

Awww.... there there... it's ok. Here's a Lg. Tim's, I hope you win a Timbit.

 

[Praxius]

Exactly what is a piss ant?

A piss ant I believe is an ant which has wings, also known as the Sugar Ant:

 

[Zzarchov]

We don't vote in governments who do those things, that would have been hitler, and
such. You know that, so don't make up stories that will not apply do our lives. Being
allowed to do 'anything' you want to your children, and then hide behind 'freedom of
religion' act, would be letting people do what you described above, as many people
have and will do many awful things to their children, from time to time.

You mean exactly like how we kept voting in governments that did just that into the 1970's?

Seriously. The USA and Australia, both democracies, did just that as well.

See, Democracy is another word for mob rule. The things we truly cherish in our democracy are very undemocratic things, things like the charter of rights and freedoms, things that say "it doesn't matter how many votes you get, people have certain inalieable rights".

But yes, People trying to have their first child today, as now figuring out too late their hospital sterilized them, without parental consent , as a child..figuring they were too likely to be mentally defective.

side note: There is still sufficient support for doing these kinds of things again. Even now, after two girls froze to death in a reserve, there is talk of taking children (all of them) out of reserves with high alcoholism and putting them in foster care.

So this isn't a "could never happen here", this is a "just finally stopped in living memory with high support to start again"

 

[gerryh]

nope...never happned/....can't happen today....will never happen in the future.... just ask tallalola....she'll tall ya.

 

[MikeyDB]

Zzarchov

Even if we set aside the issue of government involvement in abortion and reproductive process, we vote-in governments that take us to war and shape our domestic security to suit the appetities of those with less than honorable intent. Democracy is at best a "workable" social organizing prinicple but democracies are as subject to manipulation and special interests as dictatorships and oligarchies.

Although a people may define the "purpose" of government, that definition is as fluid as corporations and special interests ...and government can make it.

A benign dictatorship is by far the best system unfortunately until humans attain the maturity of seeing beyond petty differences and abandon this isolationist impetus that woud declare individual rights above those of society it's unlikely a truly benign dictator will or can emerge.

 

[Zzarchov]

Why on earth would I care about Societies good above my own? We aren't ants, we aren't even naturally a large scale social animal.

We are individual and small pack animals smart enough to see the benefits in going with large groups to suit our own personal and family benefits.

Why on earth would we act contrary to our very nature? Why would we absolve ourselves into some hive mind? Its like talking about how great an eagle would be if it didn't fly around everywhere.

 

[MikeyDB]

Zzarchov

Why doesn't your response surprise me!?

You've demonstrated a preference for historical benchmarks when it comes to Palestine and Israel, the Ottoman Empire and and and so it's little suprise that you count youself among those who choose to turn your back on moving beyond the strategies that havent worked throughout human history. Tribalism expanded into the construct of "nation-hood" yields certainly temporary "peace" and you seem to favor displacing people when the axiom of might is right harmonizes with your personal preferences, but you seem to ignore the fact that regardless of the compartmentalization you seem to think "works", it doesn't!

All human beings rely on the planet as a whole. Now you may find this corollary with ant colonies or wasp hives unpleasant, however it is the nature of our existence. A rogue ant or wasp or bee or complex organism doesn't live very long in the world. What would lead you to believe that your hubris of "superiority" and "right" to individuality won't end exactly the same way?

Perhaps you don't realize that the very instrument we are all using to participate in this discussion wasn't the brainchild of any single person....perhaps you choose to ignore that the food you eat wasn't grown by you...maybe you believe that fairies and supernatural beings are resonsible for what's happening around you ...but they're NOT!

 

[dancing-loon]

Society is judged by the way it treats those who are defenseless, and this includes children and the helpless and infirm.

Very true. But these parents did not mistreat their child with intent, did they?

The parents were chosen by the child before it was born! The parents and this child could be bound together by karma. Most of the people judge this situation, about which they have no intimate knowledge, by mainstream's understandings and expectations, which are limited to the material plane and its five-senses perception only. Most people deny there is more to life than what we can take in by our five senses. Atheism, a form of question perod, abounds.

The paradox of our times is that we on one end fight to preserve a fading life under all circumstances and spare no cost. On the other end we regularly slaughter people, even children, recklessly and carelessly... and shrug our shoulders! We even go so far as to train our young to kill. We invent sophisticated machinery that will do the killing for us by merely having to press a little button.

What troubles me is that this kid seems to have fallen through the cracks - somebody somewhere must have made the diagnosis of childhood diabetis and when no treatment was requested by the parents, where were the social workers who should have followed up?

It is good and necessary that we, as a civilized society, care about and for each member of this society. That principle reflects a Christian attitude, and if faithfully applied, could make this world a much different place.
But sometimes karma defies all regulations and efforts and the person dies. Can we not accept that? Must we lay responsibility and blame on someone, to have our hollow righteousness satisfied? For me death is not the final solution. But I will leave that topic for another time and place.

Trying to use this as an example of stupidity, induced by religion, is a fallacy since this does not represents main stream religion. These were misguided zealots who represent the fringes of religion.

A lot of people suffer from tunnel vision these days.With what sort of authority are we judging these zealots? Perhaps our common sense tells us those parents must be nuts, because they don't adhere to popular beliefs. Is that a sin? YES, in our eyes it is!!

Let's put our arm around their shoulders, and wipe their tears away.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Trying to use this as an example of stupidity induced by religion is a fallacy since this does not represents main stream religion. These were misguided zealots who represent the fringes of religion.

No, your statement is a fallacy. You're implying that only main stream religion really counts as religion, and claiming in effect that their religious views are wrong so their behaviour doesn't count against religion. That's the standard out for all believers trying to excuse the behaviour of other believers and let religion off the hook for any bad things they do. It doesn't work. The fact remains that it was their religious views that guided their behaviour and resulted in their child's death. Whether their religious views are right or wrong--and there's no possible way to test that in this life--really doesn't matter.

 

[talloola]

A piss ant I believe is an ant which has wings, also known as the Sugar Ant:

They're kind of cute aren't they.;-)I've been called cute before too.

 

[Praxius]

Why on earth would we act contrary to our very nature?

lol.... what is our very nature?

Whatever you explain as it being our nature wouldn't be correct, because you will always have those who disagree with your explination and if they instead followed your explination of what our nature is, then we'd go back into that ant concept you mentioned, thereby cancelling out your explination and reasons against being in a collective.

Why would we absolve ourselves into some hive mind?

Because we seek perfection. We will assimilate your culture into ours, making ours better. Join us.... be one with the borg.... resistence is futile.

We have already begun this process with the Internet. The internet is the equivilant to the Atari to our Xbox 360's today.... we are now sharing and collecting information faster and at larger quantities already. Eventually our individuality will be no more unless technology is destroyed.

 

[hermanntrude]

....

...But you will never get a utopia.

Utopia actually means "nowhere". The term was coined specifically to suggest that it doesn't exist.

 

[Zzarchov]

I learn something new every day. Thanks Herm.