What do you expect? It's a war...soldiers are going to die. The Canadian military is faring alot better than the average afghan citizen.
Our Glorious Afghan Mission
- Thread starter darkbeaver
- Start date
I am sorry we have lost more soldiers, but soldiers get killed in wartime and peacekeeping, if we could
only get to that point.
NATO is not there to push an agenda on the Afghans, but to try and help them restore and improve
their country, and work to get the Taliban out, as it is the Taliban who is trying to push an agenda
of aggression and misery onto the afghans and their families, and their treatment of women is
horrible, and, as a woman, I know that the afghan women need our help, as we can help them toward
a chance for an education and a "little" power, if, only a little, it would be better than 'none at all.
Education is power, knowledge is power, ignorance and being pushed down and held back is so sad.
It is easy for some of us to go about our daily existence, in freedom, and happiness, and not even think about
'their' lives, but I can't do that, ever.
only get to that point.
NATO is not there to push an agenda on the Afghans, but to try and help them restore and improve
their country, and work to get the Taliban out, as it is the Taliban who is trying to push an agenda
of aggression and misery onto the afghans and their families, and their treatment of women is
horrible, and, as a woman, I know that the afghan women need our help, as we can help them toward
a chance for an education and a "little" power, if, only a little, it would be better than 'none at all.
Education is power, knowledge is power, ignorance and being pushed down and held back is so sad.
It is easy for some of us to go about our daily existence, in freedom, and happiness, and not even think about
'their' lives, but I can't do that, ever.
I wonder if the liberals around here know how many Canadians died in the various peacekeeping missions we've been on. Soldiers fight and die, that's what they sign up to do. It's not pleasant, but neither is watching liberals call this a war for oil.
I wasn't aware wealth was the source of bravery. Afghanistan is rich because it allows itself to be run by warlords, drug runners and fundementalists. It could be far richer, but again, chooses not to be.
Well, not to put too fine a point on it. But without these "oil wars", we wouldn't have the wealth we have now.
We hare 10% of the population (the G7) with 60% of the wealth. You only get that by being willing to fight for it, god knows everyone else trying to get here is more than willing to blindly kill for it.
Best case scenario we end up with 1/6th of what we have now (wealth between nations becomes fairly evenly dispersed), more likely scenario we get bumped off our spot and replaced, making us part of that 90% who share 40% of the wealth, leaving us with 1/15th of what we have now.
Are you willing to have a middle class job make $5K a year? What about $2K a year?
Think we got health care problems now? What about when like everyone else in the world we have to worry about if we can afford enough Polio Vaccinations, never mind wait times?
i agree. most people, at least in my age group, have no idea why canadians are involved in this war or what the hell we are supposed to be doing..except seeing our people killed.
The thought that Canada, and our economy is based on invasion/war is hilarious.
We gave that option up in the fifties with the Arrow.
Lets not kid ourselves, we are benefitting from the US, and their pension to solve issues with their military.
We as a nation need to look at other means of growth," you can take any meaning you want on growth".
I see it as economic, and humanistic.
Canada is rich in oil, and gas, and WATER, we also have some of the most pristine natural settings in the world.
With all these positives going for us, we need to be forward thinking. Start playing hardball with other Countries that need these resources. Take a percentage of that revenue, and start funding research into new clean industries.
The first lesson in business, charge what ever the market will bear.
Sell the new industries products to a world that is looking for this type of thing, and take a percentage of that revenue to assist developing Countries.
Then Canada would be, what we all perceive it to be now, but it is'nt.
This would take real risk, and strenght of Canada's character. Right now we pay lip service to it.
The rest of the world seems to show us respect, so long as we stay in line.
We gave that option up in the fifties with the Arrow.
Lets not kid ourselves, we are benefitting from the US, and their pension to solve issues with their military.
We as a nation need to look at other means of growth," you can take any meaning you want on growth".
I see it as economic, and humanistic.
Canada is rich in oil, and gas, and WATER, we also have some of the most pristine natural settings in the world.
With all these positives going for us, we need to be forward thinking. Start playing hardball with other Countries that need these resources. Take a percentage of that revenue, and start funding research into new clean industries.
The first lesson in business, charge what ever the market will bear.
Sell the new industries products to a world that is looking for this type of thing, and take a percentage of that revenue to assist developing Countries.
Then Canada would be, what we all perceive it to be now, but it is'nt.
This would take real risk, and strenght of Canada's character. Right now we pay lip service to it.
The rest of the world seems to show us respect, so long as we stay in line.
A better case from history is that we aren’t going to keep the wealth we now have BECAUSE of the supposed oil wars. Empires have a habit of bankrupting themselves by fighting to hang onto other people’s wealth rather than creating new wealth. Besides, we’re just groupies in the latest empire’s latest wealth war. Why does anybody believe that we have a good gift giving uncle, that we’re earning our way, or that we’re going to be allowed to keep anything we have now? Saying ‘we’ isn’t a very strong reason. Who is this ‘we’ and what is this ‘spot’ and how did we get there anyway?
Besides, killing people for money is just plain bad moral conduct in our culture. We’re sent to jail for life for doing things like that (Oh I know, if it’s little brown brother’s wealth in another country then killing is just fine). Traditional religion tells us that we go to hell for killing people (Oh I know, it’s just human nature when wealth is involved). Oh I know, I know, I know. I know, it’s okay if it’s a democratic government that’s the one doing unto to others. Don’t know why anybody who no doubt resembles their avatar would worry about getting health care though.
The main reason we seem to be in Afghanistan is to provide photo ops for politicians in flak jackets and helmets who bring us warm fuzzy tales about why we’re there. We took sides in somebody else’s neighborhood, and we haven’t got a clue about who’s who’s and what’s what’s in that particular hood. Who’s we and who’s’ they in that hood? Politicians in flak jackets will tell us all about it though and save the world too. The tale is no doubt little more than bleatings to keep their seatings.
Besides, killing people for money is just plain bad moral conduct in our culture. We’re sent to jail for life for doing things like that (Oh I know, if it’s little brown brother’s wealth in another country then killing is just fine). Traditional religion tells us that we go to hell for killing people (Oh I know, it’s just human nature when wealth is involved). Oh I know, I know, I know. I know, it’s okay if it’s a democratic government that’s the one doing unto to others. Don’t know why anybody who no doubt resembles their avatar would worry about getting health care though.
The main reason we seem to be in Afghanistan is to provide photo ops for politicians in flak jackets and helmets who bring us warm fuzzy tales about why we’re there. We took sides in somebody else’s neighborhood, and we haven’t got a clue about who’s who’s and what’s what’s in that particular hood. Who’s we and who’s’ they in that hood? Politicians in flak jackets will tell us all about it though and save the world too. The tale is no doubt little more than bleatings to keep their seatings.
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i agree. most people, at least in my age group, have no idea why canadians are involved in this war or what the hell we are supposed to be doing..except seeing our people killed.
----------------------------------------------Mapleleafgirl-------------------------------------------------]
You may ultimately be right.
But only after you go through the gyrations that got your country there.
Failed State Theory.
Al Qaeda, means, THE BASE, and so it establishes bases in countries that cannot control
law and order, in otherwords "failed states."
In order to train and indoctrinate tens of thousands of young men without interference
and without worry, they are free to cause problems for the West. They are indiscriminate.
In other words they don't delineate any difference between the West and the United States
and will group innocent Westerners with the great Satan to your south.
This inability to distinguish innocent westerners with Americans is similar to our inability
to understand even our own neighbors.
The strategy so far is to deny these "bases" to al Qaeda.
Once you and everyone else leaves, that country will again be a "safe haven" for those bases.
----------------------------------------------Mapleleafgirl-------------------------------------------------]
You may ultimately be right.
But only after you go through the gyrations that got your country there.
Failed State Theory.
Al Qaeda, means, THE BASE, and so it establishes bases in countries that cannot control
law and order, in otherwords "failed states."
In order to train and indoctrinate tens of thousands of young men without interference
and without worry, they are free to cause problems for the West. They are indiscriminate.
In other words they don't delineate any difference between the West and the United States
and will group innocent Westerners with the great Satan to your south.
This inability to distinguish innocent westerners with Americans is similar to our inability
to understand even our own neighbors.
The strategy so far is to deny these "bases" to al Qaeda.
Once you and everyone else leaves, that country will again be a "safe haven" for those bases.
It's not hard to find out, follow the history of the actions in Afghanistan, it's a pretty straight forward
path, then of course, at the end of that path, you have to have your own opinion, but finding out why
these actions happen to begin with, and then continue on is 'ones' own responsibility.
And, of course, you will hear many different theories from many different people, which
of course, is their own opinions, that's the part that can be confusing, but it is not
as complicated as many claim, it started with 911, and went from there.
My problem with this stupid war is that there doesn't seen to be any way to win it. From what I've read, the Taliban are able to travel freely back and forth accross the Pakistan border. I would find it easier to support this war if there was a definite objective.....like if we take this ground, or that hill, or capture a particular territory. As it is, we seem to be camping around waiting for the Taliban to think up new ways to kill us.
I think it is being won, though, Juan. The less anarchy there is the better. Given the time I think Afghanistan could be a country with a reasonably solid government able to provide security and safety for its denizens. But then, that is based on my hopes. I expect everyone to pull out and it will revert back to a place run by a bunch of anarchical ,warmongering druglords.
Every once in a while I start to think that maybe we are making some progress....Our government just approved a hundred and fifty million for reconstruction projects etc.......Things seem to be going well.....Then some Arab caveman sets off half a ton of dynamite and kills six of our soldiers. Correct me if I'm wrong but haven't most of the deaths in Afghanistan happened since Harper took over?
You are not wrong, but remember that it was a Liberal mission that was only begun after the election Harper won. Are you actually trying to blame Harper for this somehow?
In a word, yes. It has done Canada's reputation no good in most circles, to be perceived as American proxies. Harpers love affair with Bush has been no secret. Besides the U.S. and Britain, there are quite a few other countries in Afghanistan. Have any of those countries suffered the losses Canada has?
"somehow" my ass
this March to next February is ALL Harper. He said so before the debate even took place.
I say too bad. The Liberals put us there. I agree with them on that. I don't care how it appears to the world. We are there to keep the Taliban from coming back to power and help the Afghan people build their own army and infrastructure back up. If people don't understand why we are there it's because they either don't want to or haven't done any research into it. I always find it curious how the people we put in harms way are alway the ones who want to be there the most. I guess they understand it better than most Canadians.
I don't care for Harper much either, but he is following a course set by the Liberals.
I'm inclined to agree with LG. As long as parts of Afghanistan have peace and security we are winning. As soon as the internationals pull out, Afghanistan will collapse. That's why we have to get the Afghanis to manage their own affairs.
But lets clear up some common BS. The warlords probably do not want the Taliban running Afghanistan. The warlords profit from Afghanistan's opium industry. The Taliban were anti-drug. The Taliban shut down opium production in areas under their control. The Taliban fought the warlords. Since the Taliban have been pushed out of power, the warlords have been able to resume opium production.
The key to success in Afghanistan means finding a solution to the problems caused by its opium production. Canada and other nations should enter into agreements with the Afghani warlords regarding control Afghanistan's opium. In exchange for recognizing their right to control Afghanistan's opium production, they have to sell all their opium to international pharmaceutical companies. In effect, turn the warlords into "legitimate" businessmen. Once these warlords become legitimate businessmen, they will inevitably become "reputable" politicians. Once they see that their "business" would be better protected by a common military, they will allow their private armies to be absorbed into Afghanistan's national defence forces. Meanwhile, Afghanistan's opium would be used to meet critical international shortages of painkillers.
All we really want is Afghanistan to meet minimum standards of good governance, stability and international accountability. Once we have the drug lords on side, it shouldn't be too hard to get the Afghanis to rule themselves.
But if we continue to fight the warlords, we force them to make alliances with the Taliban, because we would be their common enemy.
I'm inclined to agree with LG. As long as parts of Afghanistan have peace and security we are winning. As soon as the internationals pull out, Afghanistan will collapse. That's why we have to get the Afghanis to manage their own affairs.
But lets clear up some common BS. The warlords probably do not want the Taliban running Afghanistan. The warlords profit from Afghanistan's opium industry. The Taliban were anti-drug. The Taliban shut down opium production in areas under their control. The Taliban fought the warlords. Since the Taliban have been pushed out of power, the warlords have been able to resume opium production.
The key to success in Afghanistan means finding a solution to the problems caused by its opium production. Canada and other nations should enter into agreements with the Afghani warlords regarding control Afghanistan's opium. In exchange for recognizing their right to control Afghanistan's opium production, they have to sell all their opium to international pharmaceutical companies. In effect, turn the warlords into "legitimate" businessmen. Once these warlords become legitimate businessmen, they will inevitably become "reputable" politicians. Once they see that their "business" would be better protected by a common military, they will allow their private armies to be absorbed into Afghanistan's national defence forces. Meanwhile, Afghanistan's opium would be used to meet critical international shortages of painkillers.
All we really want is Afghanistan to meet minimum standards of good governance, stability and international accountability. Once we have the drug lords on side, it shouldn't be too hard to get the Afghanis to rule themselves.
But if we continue to fight the warlords, we force them to make alliances with the Taliban, because we would be their common enemy.