Yup. The funny thing is that Alberta would have even more money because the money would be invested back in the province instead of shipped south. If they understood anything besides their own myopic dogmatism, guys like Blue would be demanding the government take over the industry.
Ontario a Have Not?
- Thread starter Musicman
- Start date
Blair wrote:
.........that Alberta's oil industry was built on federal subsidies that we all paid for and continues to be subsidised through tax breaks and other forms of corporate welfare. I guess these latest tantrums are just another example of your self-centred immaturity.
Yes, Canada provided some money to develop the oilsands. What you forget to mention is that they did this by buying shares in Syncrude, which allowed Syncrude to continue the oilsand developments, and then when Syncrudes share price went up, they sold the shares for a profit. So it was not a subsidy at all, and as a result, there should be no other misinformation about federal subsidies in the oil patch. And remember the billions of dollars in extra transfer payments coming out of Alberta every year. Alberta owes you nothing at this point.
.........that Alberta's oil industry was built on federal subsidies that we all paid for and continues to be subsidised through tax breaks and other forms of corporate welfare. I guess these latest tantrums are just another example of your self-centred immaturity.
Yes, Canada provided some money to develop the oilsands. What you forget to mention is that they did this by buying shares in Syncrude, which allowed Syncrude to continue the oilsand developments, and then when Syncrudes share price went up, they sold the shares for a profit. So it was not a subsidy at all, and as a result, there should be no other misinformation about federal subsidies in the oil patch. And remember the billions of dollars in extra transfer payments coming out of Alberta every year. Alberta owes you nothing at this point.
Re: RE: Ontario a Have Not?
Why would you need to invest more than is already being invested? Remember the surpluses in Alberta? Alberta already invests in Alberta.
The NDP would also increase corporate and personal taxes, institute a sales tax, and generally tax away any mythical advantage they could claim to get. And investment capital would leave the province in droves, just as the NEP drove the rigs out of Alberta in the eighties. Let the feds nationalize the stuff in your province if you like, but stay the hell away from free enterprise Albertans.
Reverend Blair said:
Why would you need to invest more than is already being invested? Remember the surpluses in Alberta? Alberta already invests in Alberta.
The NDP would also increase corporate and personal taxes, institute a sales tax, and generally tax away any mythical advantage they could claim to get. And investment capital would leave the province in droves, just as the NEP drove the rigs out of Alberta in the eighties. Let the feds nationalize the stuff in your province if you like, but stay the hell away from free enterprise Albertans.
Re: RE: Ontario a Have Not?
Suck it up blue...it's for the good of the country... :wink:
Musicman said:
Suck it up blue...it's for the good of the country... :wink:
The thing is Blue, the oil aint gonna last forever. Eventually you may need us.
For example, what if someone say six months or 6 years down the road (unlikely, but hey you never know), comes up with a way to run vehicles without fossil fuel and it was as affordable or more affordable than fossil fuel, Alberta would be screwed.
Alberta may have 200 years of oil left, but believe me long before two hundred years are up, fossil fuels will not be used like they are now, if at all.
Hybird vehicles/ smart cars are out now and I see more and more of them around. From security companies to personnel use by people. (They are even talking about adjusting street parking for these vehicles)
Even Toyota has Hybirds you can buy at the local dealership for about 10-15,000 more than regular SUV's but eventually the prices will come down and there will be a less demand for you fossil fuels/oil as more people move into these vehicles, especially as well if gas keeps going up.
For example, what if someone say six months or 6 years down the road (unlikely, but hey you never know), comes up with a way to run vehicles without fossil fuel and it was as affordable or more affordable than fossil fuel, Alberta would be screwed.
Alberta may have 200 years of oil left, but believe me long before two hundred years are up, fossil fuels will not be used like they are now, if at all.
Hybird vehicles/ smart cars are out now and I see more and more of them around. From security companies to personnel use by people. (They are even talking about adjusting street parking for these vehicles)
Even Toyota has Hybirds you can buy at the local dealership for about 10-15,000 more than regular SUV's but eventually the prices will come down and there will be a less demand for you fossil fuels/oil as more people move into these vehicles, especially as well if gas keeps going up.
:roll:
Prove it, Blue. Prove one single thing you've said. Find me something in the NDP platform that speaks of raising taxes or instituting a sales tax in Alberta. You can't because there is nothing. What it comes down to, Blue, is that you are making shit up because you don't know what the hell you are talking about.
Re: RE: Ontario a Have Not?
Agreed, but let's face it, this ain't gonna happen within the next 50 years. The oilsands have an oil supply that is estimated to be twice as big as Lake Ontario, so running out is not a problem. And if someone comes up with a fossil fuel replacement within six months that actually gets to market, then the Ontario automobile manufacturing sector is also screwed.
In case you have not noticed, Alberta has diviersified its income to a great degree, to the point where resource revenue is below 40% of the provinces GDP. If there was anything good that came out of the NEP, it was that Alberta decided never to get screwed again like that, and was forced to diversify.
no1important said:
Agreed, but let's face it, this ain't gonna happen within the next 50 years. The oilsands have an oil supply that is estimated to be twice as big as Lake Ontario, so running out is not a problem. And if someone comes up with a fossil fuel replacement within six months that actually gets to market, then the Ontario automobile manufacturing sector is also screwed.
In case you have not noticed, Alberta has diviersified its income to a great degree, to the point where resource revenue is below 40% of the provinces GDP. If there was anything good that came out of the NEP, it was that Alberta decided never to get screwed again like that, and was forced to diversify.
Musicman said:
Eh? That's akin to assuming, which with a good imagination is limitless. I'd like to see big corps taxed...or at least enforced to tax rather than not paying taxes because all their sh*t is in the Camen Islands.
My only want out of a good Government is to spend these taxes on something constructive for our society.
You may have a lot of sand but you don't exactly have a lot of one of the key ingrediants for making that oil Musicman.Water it takes gobs of water to produce 1 barrell of oil .I worked up there for awhile and seen it :wink:
See, that makes no sense at all. Do you think that the autoworkers give a rat's ass if they install a gasoline engine or a fuel cell? Do you think that Ford and GMC care as long as they can sell vehicles? They don't, Blue. Not only that, but pressure from consumers, the environmental movement, and foreign competitors has them doing research into all sorts of alternate technologies. Your days are numbered.
Except that other sixty percent will go away without the oil money. Your tech sector is there to serve the oil industry. Your manufacturing sector is there either to serve the oil industry or because of lower rates for natural gas and oil. If those rates drop elsewhere, they will go elsewhere. Even your ag sector has become dependent on oil and gas and would shrink a lot without extra revenues from that. You're playing a song with only one note, Blue.
Your levels of education of low. Your levels of professional development are low. You survive by letting other provinces and the feds subsidise education and professional development, then hiring the educated people away from other provinces. That is not diversification and it is not sustainable.
See that quote from you, Blue? We have a name for it. We call it a lie. Do you have no scruples whatsoever, Blue?
See how funny things get here...
Americans come here, and we criticize their government, and we are called anti-american...
Albertans, who may as well be Americans, come here and spout off about there feckin' surpluses and shit, and we fire back and say that it's because they've abused their poor and elderly, and are generally undereducated, and we are called whiners...
Couldn't get any funnier than this... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Americans come here, and we criticize their government, and we are called anti-american...
Albertans, who may as well be Americans, come here and spout off about there feckin' surpluses and shit, and we fire back and say that it's because they've abused their poor and elderly, and are generally undereducated, and we are called whiners...
Couldn't get any funnier than this... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Vanni Fucci said:
Well, if ANY of your comments had a shred of truth, then it would be okay, but there is no way to respond to such trash in any logical way. Keep in mind, it is the ROC that started this surplus talk, and Albertans are just firing back saying respect the constitution and keep your hands of the resources of all provinces, including Albertas, and the revenues from said resources. Not a hard concept to understand, but I guess you are having a bit of difficulty, so you resort to whining about how unfair life is. Get to work, sacrifice like Albertans did, and then we will talk.
Serious economic analysts, including those in Alberta, disagree with you.
Actually it has come up time and again at premiers conferences because you've been poaching people from us. It's a major point that is discussed at all levels of government and private industry.
Why the hell would I want to move to Alberta.
What proven records, Dougie? Do you mean the way the economy in Manitoba improved when doer took over? Do you mean the way Romanow saved Saskatchewan from bankruptcy after Devine's mismanagement? Do you mean the way that, for all the years he was premier of Saskatchewan, Tommy Douglas never once ran a deficit but managed to institute universal health care, and build highways and infrastructure?
The record of the NDP speaks for itself, Troll Boy. It is as good or better than other parties with the added bonus of bettering the lives of average people. You can't handle that so you perpetuate lies.
Do you think they care if they are building engines to run on gasoline or eco-diesel?
So this is what Canada has become. Jealous petty whiners. Ontatrio a have not? What a joke. Instead of looking to little Alberta to bail you out, how about standing up, pulling up your pants, pulling up your fly and getting to work. Ontario will become a have not province and stay there with this attitude. Poor Ontario with its vast resources, ports, access to the HUGE U.S. markets. I see people every day that are better off than me. So what? Good for them. The problem with Ontario is you are living above your means, not that you are poor. Ontarians must decide what is needed and cut the rest. Looking enviously at Alberta and putting your energies into figuring out a way to confiscate Alberta wealth will only make us all have not provinces. Time for Ontario to grow up and stop depending on other (smaller) provinces to support its social experiment.