Ontario a Have Not?

Musicman

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Aug 7, 2005
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Re: RE: Ontario a Have Not?

manda said:
but I still get to call and bitch...right? I've just gotten so good at it, I'd hate to give it up :twisted:

It still is a free country, so, hey, go with your strengths!! :wink:
 

Jo Canadian

Council Member
Mar 15, 2005
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PEI...for now
 

Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
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Re: RE: Ontario a Have Not?

Musicman said:
manda said:
but I still get to call and bitch...right? I've just gotten so good at it, I'd hate to give it up :twisted:

It still is a free country, so, hey, go with your strengths!! :wink:

Same to you "musicman". 8)
 

no1important

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I see Klein is spewing off.

"great Canadians" will "keep your hands off"

His warning was partly brought on by Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty's recent musing that Alberta's wealth is becoming "the elephant in the room" and that the growing regional economic disparity needs to be addressed.

That oil belongs to all of Canada in my opinion and half of the revenue at least should be shared other provinces (who are not as lucky to have oil in their own backyard)and the Feds to pay down national debt. Klein and his neocon cohorts are just selfish and greedy. Hell, if there was no oil in Alberta would Alberta be talking seperation? I think not.
 

Musicman

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Aug 7, 2005
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Re: RE: Ontario a Have Not?

no1important said:
I see Klein is spewing off.

"great Canadians" will "keep your hands off"

His warning was partly brought on by Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty's recent musing that Alberta's wealth is becoming "the elephant in the room" and that the growing regional economic disparity needs to be addressed.

That oil belongs to all of Canada in my opinion and half of the revenue at least should be shared other provinces (who are not as lucky to have oil in their own backyard)and the Feds to pay down national debt. Klein and his neocon cohorts are just selfish and greedy. Hell, if there was no oil in Alberta would Alberta be talking seperation? I think not.

Better bone up on your constitution. The resources in a province belong to the province, not to the country. Plain and simple. The Ontario Chamber of Commerce recognises this fact and wants to make clear they want nothing to do with anything that infringes on this constitutional right.

However, would BC be willing to share 1/2 of its revenues on all its resource income as well?

Klein even has said he does not want to cut the gas tax because it would be unfair to the other provinces. And remember, Alberta contributes $9billion in transfer payments to the rest of the country. This is over and above the personal, corporate, GST and payroll taxes paid by Albertans and Corprorations, so please don't say Klein is greedy.

Anyway, it is a moot point, given the constitution, and as everyone has said for years, no one wants to open the constitutional can of worms. Case closed.
 

no1important

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Case closed.

I would not hold your breathe on that. You cant trust Ottawa. Plus see who owns the oil when FN land claims are settled.

I also said in my opinion. But don't worry if Ontario needs it or needs it cheap they will get it.

Resources like oil and gas are under provincial jurisdiction because that’s where the constitution puts them. The question I’m asking is more fundamental. Should the constitution assign resources to the provinces? More pointedly, why should the revenues generated from oil reserves in Canada flow to some Canadians who happen to
live in Alberta, and not to others who happen to
live elsewhere?

It should be kept in mind that the amount of money at stake here is not negligible. The reason that all residents of Alberta have an interest in seeing Kyoto fail, and not just those who work in the oil patch, is that every year the government of
Alberta receives over $3 billion in oil and gas revenue. It is because of this “Alberta advantage” that their government is able to maintain the highest spending level of any Canadian province, and yet get by without a sales tax.

If the oil industry suffers, Albertans stand to lose some of this tax break. They may have to start working for their money, like the rest of us.

Outside of Alberta, Kyoto represents quite an opportunity. Not only will compliance require relatively little adjustment, but we stand to gain enormously from the development and export of clean energy, like hydro, wind and solar.

In fact, I bet that if resource revenues were pooled federally, so that all Canadians enjoyed the benefits of both Quebec hydro and Alberta oil, we would not be having the current debate, simply because the benefits would so clearly outweigh the costs. More importantly, there would be no
provincial government with such a powerful stake in the production of dirty energy.

But how else to interpret the behaviour of the government of Alberta? They defend the interests of the oil industry, while right next door to them in Saskatchewan farmers are devastated by climactic volatility. Could there be a more
clear-cut case for the exercise of federal power?

So the fact that Alberta is opposing Kyoto does not give the government of Canada any reason to reconsider its commitment to the accord. Instead, it provides a powerful reason to reconsider the arrangement under which provinces have jurisdiction over natural resources in the first place.

 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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First of all, the original story this thread is based on was a press release/scare tactic by the Ontario Chamber of Commerce. They are playing political games and trying to frighten people. Ontario is a very long way from becoming a have not province.

A lot of the other provinces are also on the way to becoming have provinces, so the "Alberta advantage" will be slipping away.

As for oil and gas revenues belonging to Alberta....That's true, but the federal government still sets trade laws and and environmental legislation and has a fair bit of control as a result.
 

Musicman

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Aug 7, 2005
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Re: RE: Ontario a Have Not?

Reverend Blair said:
First of all, the original story this thread is based on was a press release/scare tactic by the Ontario Chamber of Commerce. They are playing political games and trying to frighten people. Ontario is a very long way from becoming a have not province.

A lot of the other provinces are also on the way to becoming have provinces, so the "Alberta advantage" will be slipping away.

As for oil and gas revenues belonging to Alberta....That's true, but the federal government still sets trade laws and and environmental legislation and has a fair bit of control as a result.

While the feds to have some input, keep in mind that Alberta has its own trade contracts with, especially, the US.

When the rest of Canada starts to share 50/50 all the revenues they get from their various sources of income, then, and only then, could any discussion about sharing Albertas oil have any merit. Until then, the resources belong to the provinces, and any discussion about "sharing then" is pointless. And I remind you all of the transfer payments Alberta "shares" with the rest of the country, so to insinuate that Alberta does not share is false and a lie.

So, feds, keep your hands off. And Blair, I agree, Ontario is a long way from being a have not province. To me, this whole thing is simply an excuse to start the discussion of a carbon tax, which, as we all know, is simply the "Son of NEP". Different name, same idea. However, I suspect Alberta and Albertans will never allow that to happen again.
 

Reverend Blair

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Apr 3, 2004
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While the feds to have some input, keep in mind that Alberta has its own trade contracts with, especially, the US.

Trade law is set by the federal government. It doesn't matter if Ralphie goes to Washington and kneels in front of Georgie, if Ottawa says no trade, then Ralphie has to listen.

As for whether this is the start of a Carbon tax or not...We are the only industrialized country on the planet, including your beloved Amerika, without a national energy plan. Perhaps it is time that Alberta grew up and began working with the other provinces and Ottawa instead of yarking like a spoiled child every single time a national plan is mentioned.

Alberta also has to realise that it won't be the king for much longer. BC, Manitoba, and Quebec are all major players in hydro power. Manitoba, Saskatchewan, BC, and Newfoundland also have oil and gas. Manitoba and Saskatchewan are much better positioned than Alberta when it comes to bio-fuels.

As the world changes, and it will, Alberta will have to accept that other provinces are equal to it and we are all very tired of the whining that's been coming from that province.
 

mrmom2

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Mar 8, 2005
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Heheheheh Rev and Bue at it again how come your here anyways Blue you have your own site and been inviting people over there :p Why don't you go play with your god loving Bush loving friends over there and leave us alone :? Whats up with you anyways you some kind of lefty stalker or something you seem a tad unstable to me :p
 

Musicman

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Aug 7, 2005
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mrmom2 said:
Heheheheh Rev and Bue at it again how come your here anyways Blue you have your own site and been inviting people over there :p Why don't you go play with your god loving Bush loving friends over there and leave us alone :? Whats up with you anyways you some kind of lefty stalker or something you seem a tad unstable to me :p

AGain with the wrong name.

Somebody has to get you people on the straight an narrow, and, unfortunately, I was tasked with this uneviable job. Having fun, though!! :roll:
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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Somebody has to get you people on the straight an narrow, and, unfortunately, I was tasked with this uneviable job.

Would you mind telling us who did the tasking? Better yet, explain to us why the feck it would be any business of their's, or yours.
 

Musicman

Electoral Member
Aug 7, 2005
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Reverend Blair said:
While the feds to have some input, keep in mind that Alberta has its own trade contracts with, especially, the US.


Trade law is set by the federal government. It doesn't matter if Ralphie goes to Washington and kneels in front of Georgie, if Ottawa says no trade, then Ralphie has to listen.


Actually, no.

As for whether this is the start of a Carbon tax or not...We are the only industrialized country on the planet, including your beloved Amerika, without a national energy plan. Perhaps it is time that Alberta grew up and began working with the other provinces and Ottawa instead of yarking like a spoiled child every single time a national plan is mentioned.

Maybe if Ottawa and the rest of the provinces quit wasting the money, there would not be so much concern.

Alberta also has to realise that it won't be the king for much longer. BC, Manitoba, and Quebec are all major players in hydro power. Manitoba, Saskatchewan, BC, and Newfoundland also have oil and gas. Manitoba and Saskatchewan are much better positioned than Alberta when it comes to bio-fuels.

I sincerely hope you are right, that other provinces catch up, then the transfer payments will not be necessary, and the money can be spent in Alberta where it will do much more good than it does now by sending it to Ottawa.

As the world changes, and it will, Alberta will have to accept that other provinces are equal to it and we are all very tired of the whining that's been coming from that province.

As above. And it is not whining, it is simply wanting some accountability or input into how the money is used.

And one last thing. Why do you in other provinces feel the need to run down Alberta? Albertans have great pride in their province, and are justifiably proud of their accomplishments, both in the energy sector and others. Even question period yesterday referred to Calgary as the Canadian equivalent of the Silicone Valley in the US for their research and development. There are many medical techniques being performed in Alberta. More doctors are coming to Alberta than to the rest of the country.

Do you feel the need to denigrate Alberta in order to justify the failings of your own provinces?

And as far as whining, why has no one gone after Ontario for their report last week?
 

mrmom2

Senate Member
Mar 8, 2005
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If thats the case Musicman what the Feck is with all the Alberta plates around here :? And another thing I was just in your province and wholly feck where did the majority of drivers there get their lisences Cracker Jack boxes :p You guys are in need of some drivers ed 8O .You would swear you've never seen corners before 8O
 

no1important

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Why do you in other provinces feel the need to run down Alberta?

Maybe it is Alberta's attitude. Especially Kleins.

Even if you have lots of oil, oil goes up and down and will not stay this high forever. If Alberta never had all that oil Blue, they would not be acting like they are now.