Ontario a Have Not?

Musicman

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Aug 7, 2005
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canada news
Wednesday, Aug 24, 2005

Chamber of Commerce report warns Ontario could become have-not province

TORONTO (CP) - Ontario is five years away from becoming a so-called "have-not" province and dragging down the Canadian economy if Ottawa doesn't change the formula for how wealthier provinces help out less affluent neighbours, a new report warns.
The Ontario Chamber of Commerce report concludes the province, long considered the country's principal breadwinner since Confederation, is paying too much to Ottawa in transfer and equalization payments compared with what it gets back.

As a result, the report warns that on a per-capita basis, Ontario will fall further behind other provinces in terms of funding for hospitals, nurses, college grants, university professors and other public services.

And the economic cost to Ontario, the country's manufacturing heartland, could in turn have a disastrous economic impact on Canada as a whole, chamber president Len Crispino argued Wednesday.

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"Equalization, transfer payments and federal government habits are damaging Ontario and risking the very foundations of Canada's economic strength," Crispino said as he released details of the study at the Ontario legislature.

"This is not just an Ontario problem. It is a national problem that every Canadian should be concerned about."

In Regina attending a federal Liberal caucus meeting, Prime Minister Paul Martin denied Ontario is being treated unfairly.

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"Ontario is a very strong province and will continue to be that way and our transfers to Ontario are at an all-time high," Martin said. "We continue to treat every province fairly and according to their needs."

A second report from the chamber making recommendations on how to fix the equalization system will be released in October. Ottawa plans to have new payment allocations in place by next April.

The gap between what Ontario pays to Ottawa and what it gets back to fund social programs has in recent months been a favourite topic of Premier Dalton McGuinty, who claims the gap has reached a whopping $23 billion.

Crispino thinks that's too low.


"If anything, he has underestimated the problem," he said.

Finance Minister Ralph Goodale said it would be counterproductive to enter into any Alberta-versus-Ontario debate.

"There are periods of time when the economies of various parts of the countries are moving at different paces or different rates compared to others," Goodale said.

"I think it is important to avoid this kind of beggar-your-neighbour approach, which can only serve to create greater divisions than might otherwise be the case."

Currently, Ontario and Alberta are Canada's only "have" provinces, meaning they don't collect equalization payments. The rest collect the payments on an unconditional basis and use them at their own discretion to offset public service costs.

However, Alberta is now swimming in revenues from sky-high oil prices, while Ontario is suffering from soaring energy and gas costs.

The chamber said Ontario isn't necessarily looking for Alberta to spread its recent cash windfall.

That wouldn't play well in the oil-rich province, which was forced to hand over resource cash in the 1970s under the controversial National Energy Program that stirred western alienation.

Revenue Minister John McCallum acknowledged Ontario's inability to keep pace with Alberta's booming economy is "well-founded."

However, "the idea that Ontario is heading for have-not status is something I find hard to believe," said the Toronto MP and former Royal Bank chief economist.

The author of the chamber's report, David MacKinnon, said without changes to the equalization payment formula, Ontario would likely have to raise taxes to cover public service costs - an unpalatable option among voters and one that would impair the province's tax competitiveness.

Equalization is one of four federal programs that transfers money to provinces and territories. Two pay for health and social services - the Canada Health Transfer and the Canada Social Transfer - while another is geared specifically for the territories.

Something is seriously wrong with this country if this is a potential. As many of said on many of these threads, what happens if Albertas oil revenue dries up? Now what happens if both Alberta and Ontario become have not provinces? Nobody is left as a have province. How can a country operate this way?



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manda

Council Member
Jul 3, 2005
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swirling in the abyss of nowhere la
We aren't functioning that well anyway at the moment.My province is amoung one of the poorest at the moment, so I really don't feel that sorry for Ontario, and with tourism problems plaguing the region, it's only set to get worse.:evil: anyone interested in moving to the 100 meter island with me? :?
 

Musicman

Electoral Member
Aug 7, 2005
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peapod said:
Ya, quite whining musicman... :cry: :cry: how'd like to have this kind of problem..eh? than you'd have something to whine about.

http://fray.com/drugs/worm/

Ummmm......no one was whining, but if you perceive it to be that way, your problem, not mine. Does it not cause you any concern at all that, according to the ONTARIO CofC that there could only be one Have region, or province, in the country? What happens if everyone is a have not? Who gives to the have nots then? Geez, guys, wake up a little, if Ontario non-politico types are saying this, maybe somebody should sit up and take a little notice? Or do you all want to be Chicken Little and wonder what the hell happened when the sky does actually fall? It's a little late, then. So mock all you want, but if it happens, don't say you were not warned. This country simply cannot afford itself anymore, and this is another piece of evidence of this truth.
 

Musicman

Electoral Member
Aug 7, 2005
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peapod said:
No it doesan't really, I have all I want or need...most important tho..I am self sufficient...in the woods and otta the woods :wink:

Well, if that is the case, congratulations. However, do you have any electricity, roads, water, fuel for your vehicles and/or heating units? If you have any of these then you should be concerned. On the other hand, if you have only a wood burning stove, coal oil lanterns, and a horse, then I guess you are okay.But you still need feed and hay for the horse, and without fuel you will have to put up the hay by hand. And who would maintain the roads if you use them?
 

peapod

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2004
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pumpkin pie bungalow
:lol: :lol: :lol: I live in lotusland land...I don't need a horse or hay..and if need be...guess I will dig out my own canoe....cedar of course. I don't need a road either...waterway...no maintence.
 

Musicman

Electoral Member
Aug 7, 2005
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peapod said:
:lol: :lol: :lol: I live in lotusland land...I don't need a horse or hay..and if need be...guess I will dig out my own canoe....cedar of course. I don't need a road either...waterway...no maintence.

Good for you, and congratulations. But won't the environmentalists get pissed at you for digging out a canoe out of a cedar tree? But what about running water and electricity? Those outhouses can get a bit "splintery" if you get my drift :wink:
 

manda

Council Member
Jul 3, 2005
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swirling in the abyss of nowhere la
Musicman said:
peapod said:
:lol: :lol: :lol: I live in lotusland land...I don't need a horse or hay..and if need be...guess I will dig out my own canoe....cedar of course. I don't need a road either...waterway...no maintence.

Good for you, and congratulations. But won't the environmentalists get pissed at you for digging out a canoe out of a cedar tree? But what about running water and electricity? Those outhouses can get a bit "splintery" if you get my drift :wink:

The bathroom is simple, dig a hole with the same tool used for the canoe; do your business and bury it, fertilizer and elimination of odour all in one!
 

peapod

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Jun 26, 2004
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pumpkin pie bungalow
environmentalists eh? but I would not be exploiting would I? well running water and electricity although very nice and definately comfortable...not required for survivial. And you bluealberta do you think you could survive...
Don't forget your 2ply maple leafs...they come in handy....no splinters either....
 

Musicman

Electoral Member
Aug 7, 2005
220
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manda said:
Musicman said:
peapod said:
:lol: :lol: :lol: I live in lotusland land...I don't need a horse or hay..and if need be...guess I will dig out my own canoe....cedar of course. I don't need a road either...waterway...no maintence.

Good for you, and congratulations. But won't the environmentalists get pissed at you for digging out a canoe out of a cedar tree? But what about running water and electricity? Those outhouses can get a bit "splintery" if you get my drift :wink:

The bathroom is simple, dig a hole with the same tool used for the canoe; do your business and bury it, fertilizer and elimination of odour all in one!

I like it, plain and simple. You are one prepared Peapod, thats for sure. Still, for the rest of us without your creature comforts, could you spare a thought for us when the whole damn country is a have not country? :roll: :wink:
 

peapod

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2004
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pumpkin pie bungalow
Well I happen to know that I do not live in a have not country or province....unless of course your using a different measuring stick than I am...yes..that must be it :p
 

Musicman

Electoral Member
Aug 7, 2005
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peapod said:
environmentalists eh? but I would not be exploiting would I? well running water and electricity although very nice and definately comfortable...not required for survivial. And you bluealberta do you think you could survive...
Don't forget your 2ply maple leafs...they come in handy....no splinters either....

As a Musicman, all I need is my piano and my family. I don't know a Bluealberta, that individual ceased to exist some time ago, at least that is waht I get from reading past threads. You and Vanni Fucci seem to have me confused with this other person, however.
 

peapod

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Jun 26, 2004
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pumpkin pie bungalow
Well could be wrong I guess...I mean just coz I saw that exact same post at another site, written by one albertablue...I could jump to conclusions I guess...you must really like it here.....I suggest you give up on the piano playing, if your to survive I suggest you take the following courses....in combat and survivial

Stomping
Learn to use your feet to squash your foe or his equipment. A basic skill needed by all Sasquatch Militia stomptroopers.

Boulder Throwing
Take out the enemy safely from the top of cliffs. Boulder troops are the first line of defense of the Sasquatch Militia and we'll teach you how to become one.

Log Swinging
Close combat against a number of foes? They'll be no match for the blunt force of a swinging log. Learn how to choose and uproot dead trees, and proper swinging techniques to avoid back injuries.

Delimbing
Pulling your enemy's limbs from their sockets may sound cruel, but they would do it to you with no hesitation if they had your might. Learn the best way to do it quickly and efficiently for a minimal amount of suffering.

Salmon Wielding
The salmon: tasty as a snack but, when in trained Sasquatch hands, deadly as a weapon. Salmon wielders are the silent assassins of Cascadia - waiting, hidden along trails, to take out enemies swiftly and silently.

Inducing Fear with Howls
Psychological warfare techniques that any Sasquatch can master. The enemy will be mentally defeated before they ever set eyes on you. You will also learn Code Howling for use in secure military communications.

Ancient Yeti Martial Arts
You will be instructed in a number of techniques by Migoi Masters from our allies in Bhutan, including invisibility. Learn why the two most dangerous weapons that a Sasquatch can have are his body and mind.
In addition to combat training, you will be taught essential survival skills, including:

Urban & Suburban Food Acquisition
Your native Sasquatch foraging skills will be enhanced with training on finding food in human habitats. Learn where humans keep edibles (mini-marts, garbage cans, pet shelters, etc.), poisonous substances to avoid, and how to use "money" to trade for food. You will also go through Food Aversion Desensitization so you can take advantage of detestable but otherwise harmless human food (such as food that has been cooked or filled with preservatives).

Hiding from Humans
Learn how to avoid being the subject of a television special on the Fox Network through the complementary arts of camouflage and concealment. We'll teach you all the secrets to making yourself disappear completely before the enemy's eyes, not only in forest environments but also in human habitats.
How To Escape Capture
If captured in battle, human enemies may try to put you on public display in a zoo or even subject you to harmful medical tests. We will teach you first how to avoid capture but also what to do if you are captured, including methods of escape and your rights as a sentient Hominoid prisoner under International Law.

Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanies will protect you from psychotronic warfare. Learn more about this important combat gear.

Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie
Blocks psychotronic mind-control rays used by our enemies.
Bark Armor
Light-weight armor that can be augmented with readily available supplies. Not effective against human firearms, but it doesn't need to be since Sasquatch Militia will teach you how to attack smart and stealthily.

Moss Camouflage Coat
Makes you undetectable in rainforest warfare and provides you with valuable "pockets" (the use of these will be explained during basic training).

Backwards Footprint Sandals
Confuse cryptozoologist trackers working for our enemies. Imported from South America where they are used by the secretive Curupira hominoids of Brazil.

Power Crystal
Reflects the sun to daze the enemy or for signaling. Can also be used to scare superstitious New Age Southern Californians into retreating by holding aloft and making fake chanting noises.

ORE Rations
ORE (Octopus Ready to Eat) rations are nutritionally balanced octopus-based bars for use when other foods aren't available and designed to keep you growling, not your stomach.
 

Vanni Fucci

Senate Member
Dec 26, 2004
5,239
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8th Circle, 7th Bolgia
the-brights.net
peapod said:
Well could be wrong I guess...I mean just coz I saw that exact same post at another site, written by one albertablue...I could jump to conclusions I guess...you must really like it here.....I suggest you give up on the piano playing, if your to survive I suggest you take the following courses....in combat and survivial

Funny innit?

As to the rest...

Pea...*sigh*

...I passed hot coffee through my nose...AGAIN!!!

:lol: :lol: 8O :lol: :lol:
 

peapod

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2004
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pumpkin pie bungalow
* dabs eys* I know I am killing myself laughing...if you want to join up here is the link...with your previous military training vanni, you would be an asset 8)

http://www.zapatopi.net/bsa/militia/

Yes, funny innit...I am a secret member at a few enemy camps *looks around* but I be very stealth vanni...never posting or revealing my postion :p I am just an observer vanni...just an observer....*big sigh* :wink:
 

Musicman

Electoral Member
Aug 7, 2005
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Vanni Fucci said:
peapod said:
Well could be wrong I guess...I mean just coz I saw that exact same post at another site, written by one albertablue...I could jump to conclusions I guess...you must really like it here.....I suggest you give up on the piano playing, if your to survive I suggest you take the following courses....in combat and survivial

Funny innit?

As to the rest...

Pea...*sigh*

...I passed hot coffee through my nose...AGAIN!!!

:lol: :lol: 8O :lol: :lol:

Nothing funny about it. As I understand it, bluealberta was banned from this forum so that person ceased to exist on this forum. This albertablue character must have liked the original postings of bluealberta in order to plagarize his comments. But then, maybe he thought that Alberta should always be first, not necessarily blue. And I suspect a lot of people read this article so anyone could have copied and pasted it. And Vanni, you should try to respond to ALL your messages.
 

Ten Packs

Council Member
Nov 21, 2004
1,505
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Kamloops BC
Hey Gang! Tomorrow, at 9:00 pm Eastern (6:00 pm Pacific), let's all gather here on this thread and heave a HUGE show of sympathy for Ontario!!!

In case I miss it, somebody can c&p mine:

Aw-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w ! ! !

:wink: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: