Omnibus Russia Ukraine crisis

Twin_Moose

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Oh I'm sorry, was I supposed to assume that you were right and Putin controlled all the REM's of Ukraine?

Point still stands - which is why you avoided comment on it - Trump think he has the power over Zelensky, which is why he thinks he could tell the man what to do. Hell, he and Putin are discussing "peace" without Ukraine even being at the table, that's how contemptuous they are of Ukraine.

And that goes back to your main question - "why did Trump ask Zelensky for rare earth minerals that are located in Russian occupied lands?"

And my answer: "Because he thought Zelensky would deal, and Zelensky WAS going to deal and made the offers." Still valid.

I'll even expand on that further for you - because Zelensky believed Trump would be 'fair' with Ukraine, he hoped that if he sweetened the deal by saying he'd offer up the REM's, it'd help turn Trump to their side and thus get the US to ask Putin to turn some land back to Ukraine, which would in turn turn the REM's over to the US.

Of course that didn't happen and now Zelensky knows the non-position that Ukraine has in Trump's mind. Right now Trump is the Neville Chamberlain of the US. All he needs is a piece of paper to wave and to say "Peace in our time".


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The U.S. and Ukraine are set to finalize a deal on rare earth minerals this week, according to Bloomberg. Negotiations are ongoing with Trump’s special envoy, Keith Kellogg.
 
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Serryah

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The U.S. and Ukraine are set to finalize a deal on rare earth minerals this week, according to Bloomberg. Negotiations are ongoing with Trump’s special envoy, Keith Kellogg.

Interesting change. Just the other day Kellogg dipped out of meeting Zelensky.

But if the minds were changed, then they were changed and a deal was made. I hope it's worth it and Zelensky didn't just sign Ukraine's death warrant. I'll wait for details.
 

Ron in Regina

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The U.S. and Ukraine are set to finalize a deal on rare earth minerals this week, according to Bloomberg. Negotiations are ongoing with Trump’s special envoy, Keith Kellogg.
I guess you missed the other teal coloured spots on the map that AREN'T in Donetsk? Maybe not as large individually but still very mineable.
Zelenskiy on Wednesday rejected U.S. demands for $500 billion in mineral wealth from Ukraine to repay Washington for wartime aid, saying the United States had supplied nowhere near that sum so far and offered no specific security guarantees in the agreement….but that’s so 2 days ago.
Interesting change. Just the other day Kellogg dipped out of meeting Zelensky.

But if the minds were changed, then they were changed and a deal was made. I hope it's worth it and Zelensky didn't just sign Ukraine's death warrant. I'll wait for details.
White House national security adviser Mike Waltz said on Friday he expects Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy to sign a minerals agreement with the United States as part of efforts to end the Ukraine war, while President Donald Trump said Kyiv has no cards to play with.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky emerged from a Thursday meeting with one of President Trump’s envoys to announce that his nation was ready to move toward an agreement with the US to provide “effective security guarantees.”
Does America agree to sign effective security guarantees with Ukraine through?

The security guarantee that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy really wants is NATO membership. European members of the military alliance still back that goal, but the U.S. looks to have taken it off the table, along with Ukrainian hopes of regaining the 20% of its territory seized by Russia.

In the absence of NATO membership, Zelenskyy has said that more than 100,000 European troops could be needed in Ukraine to guarantee the conflict doesn't flare up again after a ceasefire.

But Western officials say what’s being discussed is a “reassurance force,” not an army of peacekeepers posted along the 600-mile (1,000-kilometer) front line in Ukraine's east???
Russia, meanwhile, has rejected the idea outright. Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said that deployment of troops from NATO nations, even if not under the banner of the alliance, “will certainly be unacceptable for us.” So…there it is.
 

Jinentonix

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Russia, meanwhile, has rejected the idea outright. Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said that deployment of troops from NATO nations, even if not under the banner of the alliance, “will certainly be unacceptable for us.” So…there it is.
Bojo better hope he's right and that Trump has something up his sleeve else NOBODY is going to trust the US for at least the next 4 years.
 

Ron in Regina

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Putin only took the eastern 1/5th of Ukraine, & Trump wants 1/2 of what Putin didn’t take of Ukraine’s rare earth metals. Justifying it by demonizing Zelensky in the media. Oh well…seems to be Trumps thing towards his potential allies (except Putin I guess).
When did they move the REEs (teal) out of Donetsk?
1740248813734.jpegWhat if REE’s are just the tip of the iceberg that America (Trump) is demanding?
It didn’t even get REE right. Elements and minerals are two different things.
The contract was provided by the Trump administration to Kyiv earlier this month, with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy being given only days to review and sign it. He ultimately refused to do so, despite intense pressure from the White House, out of concern that the agreement failed to provide Ukraine with real security guarantees and was, in general, not aligned with the country’s interests.

Had it been ratified, the contract would have required that the U.S. and Ukraine establish a joint investment fund with “the exclusive right to establish the method, selection criteria, terms and conditions” of future licenses and projects. It would have also given the U.S. 50 per cent of Ukraine’s recurring revenues from “mineral resources, oil and gas resources, ports, other infrastructure (as agreed),” as well as half of its revenues generated by “all licences issued to third parties” in the future.

For future licences, the contract reserved “a right of first refusal for the purchase of exportable minerals” for the U.S., as well.

The income would be subject to an American lien, meaning the U.S. would have had to be paid first, before Ukraine could see a penny from its own resource sector.

The open-endedness of the proposed agreement’s wording — particularly the reference to the fund’s control of “other infrastructure” — makes it unclear what exactly might have been encompassed by the overarching agreement. Worse yet, it stipulated that it would operate under New York law, which meant that any future contractual disputes would have to be adjudicated in American courts outside Ukraine’s control.

Although the fund set out in the draft contract to ensure that “hostile parties to the conflict do not benefit from the reconstruction of Ukraine,” its terms and conditions amounted to an annexation of the country’s natural resources.

The existence of the document was made public last Monday by the Telegraph, a British newspaper, to the shock of Ukraine’s allies. Critics referred to the proposal as “shakedown diplomacy”; the Telegraph even noted that Ukraine was being asked to pay harsher reparations than those imposed on Germany after the First World War.

Their consternation was, and remains, entirely understandable. There appears to be no historical precedent (at least in contemporary times) for a superpower imposing such onerous costs upon a military ally. These types of vampiric arrangements are usually reserved for defeated adversaries.

It should be noted that, according to one White House national security adviser, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy first showed interest in the idea of granting the U.S. access to his country’s rare earth minerals (i.e. lithium and uranium) in September, as part of a peace plan.
Ill say it again.

Never show your hand.

Who blew gaskets when Ukraine recently sold off titanium deposits to Azerbijan? Nobody! Why not? The chimps in the retard media didnt get that bananagram?
The Trump administration has since contorted this idea beyond recognition, creating a predatory, one-sided deal instead. Not only did the draft contract fail to provide Ukraine with any real security guarantees, the economic concessions it demanded — estimated at US$500 billion (C$710) billion — were wildly disproportionate to the American aid provided to Ukraine.

U.S. President Donald Trump has claimed that his country has spent US$350 billion on defending Ukraine, but this is simply untrue. Congress appropriated approximately US$183 billion to support Ukraine, but, not only was that budget not fully dispersed, much of it was spent within the U.S. to boost domestic weapons manufacturing capacities. According to Zelenskyy, Ukraine received only around $75 billion directly.

Depending on what figure one accepts, the Trump administration’s proposed “partnership” with Ukraine would have siphoned away between two and six times more wealth than inputted aid. While this would’ve been a remarkable return on investment for the U.S. from a business perspective, military alliances simply do not, and should not, operate along the principles of cutthroat trade.

While all security partnerships are fundamentally transactional, they also require a certain degree of mutual respect and trust. Using military aid as a Trojan horse for economic colonization may be profitable in the short term, but it comes at the cost of breeding enemies over time.

The U.S. should understand this, as it has historically benefited from these norms: imagine, for example, if France had demanded control over key economic sectors in the U.S. after aiding the American Revolution.

Although a new, perhaps fairer version of the resource deal is reportedly being negotiated, the damage has already been done: how can western allies now place their faith in the U.S. if this might invite vassalization?
 
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Ron in Regina

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Why would Trump threaten to remove access to Elon Musk’s Starling satellites from Ukraine?
U.S. negotiators pressing Kyiv for access to Ukraine's critical minerals have raised the possibility of cutting the country's access to Elon Musk's vital Starlink satellite internet system, three sources familiar with the matter told Reuters.
Ukraine's continued access to SpaceX-owned Starlink was brought up in discussions between U.S. and Ukrainian officials after Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy turned down an initial proposal from U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, the sources said.
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The UK prime minister made the remarks – which run directly contrary to comments by the US president last week – in a phone call on Saturdaywith Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, in which he also said that “safeguarding Ukraine’s sovereignty was essential to deter future aggression from Russia”.

Melinda Haring, a senior fellow with the Atlantic Council, said Starlink was essential for Ukraine’s operation of drones, a key pillar of its military strategy.

“Losing Starlink would be a game changer,” Haring said, noting that Ukraine was now at 1:1 parity with Russia in terms of drone usage and artillery shells. Ukraine has a wide range of different drone capabilities, ranging from sea drones and surveillance drones to long-range unmanned aerial vehicles.
Ukraine’s access to Starlink – owned by Trump’s special adviser and tech billionaire Elon Musk through his company SpaceX – was put on the table during discussions between American and Ukrainian officials after Zelensky turned down an initial deal proposed by Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent on his visit to Kyiv last week, three anonymous sources told Reuters. Why isn’t the fact that the US is apparently shaking down Ukraine a bigger story?

Given Trump’s transactional approach to foreign policy, his tough rhetoric on Zelenskyy “could” (?or could not?) be a deliberate negotiation strategy aimed at pressuring Ukraine into making greater concessions (to whom?) in potential peace talks, rather than signaling abandonment.
 
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pgs

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Why would Trump threaten to remove access to Elon Musk’s Starling satellites from Ukraine?
U.S. negotiators pressing Kyiv for access to Ukraine's critical minerals have raised the possibility of cutting the country's access to Elon Musk's vital Starlink satellite internet system, three sources familiar with the matter told Reuters.
Ukraine's continued access to SpaceX-owned Starlink was brought up in discussions between U.S. and Ukrainian officials after Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy turned down an initial proposal from U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, the sources said.
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The UK prime minister made the remarks – which run directly contrary to comments by the US president last week – in a phone call on Saturdaywith Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, in which he also said that “safeguarding Ukraine’s sovereignty was essential to deter future aggression from Russia”.

Melinda Haring, a senior fellow with the Atlantic Council, said Starlink was essential for Ukraine’s operation of drones, a key pillar of its military strategy.

“Losing Starlink would be a game changer,” Haring said, noting that Ukraine was now at 1:1 parity with Russia in terms of drone usage and artillery shells. Ukraine has a wide range of different drone capabilities, ranging from sea drones and surveillance drones to long-range unmanned aerial vehicles.
Ukraine’s access to Starlink – owned by Trump’s special adviser and tech billionaire Elon Musk through his company SpaceX – was put on the table during discussions between American and Ukrainian officials after Zelensky turned down an initial deal proposed by Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent on his visit to Kyiv last week, three anonymous sources told Reuters. Why isn’t the fact that the US is apparently shaking down Ukraine a bigger story?

Given Trump’s transactional approach to foreign policy, his tough rhetoric on Zelenskyy “could” (?or could not?) be a deliberate negotiation strategy aimed at pressuring Ukraine into making greater concessions (to whom?) in potential peace talks, rather than signaling abandonment.
Three sources familiar with the matter . I always take anonymous sources with a grain of salt .
 

Ron in Regina

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Zelensky has warned that Trump has succumbed to Russian “disinformation”, while the US leader has accused his counterpart of starting the war and branded him a “dictator without elections”.

22 January 2025: "It's time to MAKE A DEAL," Trump writes on Truth Social. "We can do it the easy way or the hard way." He adds that without a deal, he will be forced to place further economic restrictions on Russia.

23 January 2025: Trump tells the World Economic Forum that Zelensky "wants to make a deal" but Putin "might not".

15 February 2025: Zelensky writes that he has begun working with Trump's team, adding: "The world is looking up to America as the power that has the ability to not only stop the war but also help ensure the reliability of peace afterward."

18 February 2025: US-Russia talks about ending the war begin in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Zelensky tells reporters that the talks took place "behind Ukraine's back", adding: "Once again, decisions about Ukraine are being made without Ukraine."

18 February 2025: After the talks, Trump says he was "disappointed" by Ukraine's reaction and appeared to blame Ukraine for starting the war, adding that the country "could have made a deal" earlier.

19 February 2025: Zelensky says the US president is caught in a Russian "disinformation space". He adds: "We are standing strong on our own two feet. I am counting on... the unity of Europe and the pragmatism of America."

19 February 2025: Trump accuses Zelensky of talking the US into spending $350bn (£277bn), and of claiming that half of that money was now missing. Trump calls Zelensky a "dictator" who has "done a terrible job".
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Twin_Moose

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·4h
Ukraine rejects the U.S. demand for a $500 billion fund, calling it unjustified, as actual aid amounts to only $90 billion, Bloomberg reports. Negotiations are delayed due to disputed terms that Zelensky refuses to approve.


NOELREPORTS
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·4h
Pentagon denies Trump’s claim: “The U.S. did not give Ukraine $350B—only $183B,” reports Voice of America. $58B of that was spent in the U.S. to boost defense industry & upgrade weapons. They add that $3.9 billion authorized in aid, remained unspent.
 

Ron in Regina

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Still Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is to be in Kyiv on Monday along with a dozen other world leaders as Ukraine marks the third anniversary of Russia's invasion of that country.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy confirmed during a news conference in Kyiv Sunday evening that he will meet with Trudeau in person, one of 13 foreign leaders attending a summit on peace and security for Ukraine.

"Still Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau will be here with a visit here tomorrow," Zelenskyy said in Ukrainian.

"He is chairing the G7 at the moment so he will tell me what is happening with the relationship with the U.S." (?????)

Still PM Trudeau's office has not responded to queries about the visit Sunday. This is his fourth visit to Ukraine since the war began, and almost certainly his last. He is expected to step down March 9 when a new Liberal leader is elected.

In the same news conference Zelenskyy said he would be ready to give up the presidency if doing so would achieve a lasting peace for his country under the security umbrella of the NATO military alliance.

“If to achieve peace, you really need me to give up my post, I’m ready," he said.

Responding to a journalist's question on whether he’d trade his office for peace, Zelenskyy said, “I can trade it for NATO."
His comment appeared to be aimed at recent suggestions by U.S. President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin that elections should be held in Ukraine despite Ukrainian legislation prohibiting them during martial law.

Trump's officials have signalled that any agreement to end the war would not include returning Ukraine to its 2014 borders that existed before Russia's first invasion a decade ago, nor would the country be able to join NATO.

He also has been harshly critical of Zelenskyy, blaming him for doing nothing as "his cities get demolished, as his people get killed."

Canada has supported Ukraine's bid for NATO membership. In recent days Trump has accused Ukraine of starting the war and appeared to be trying to barter with Ukraine for access to its critical minerals as part of any peace process.
 

Taxslave2

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Cuz they're too slow handing over all their metals. Duh.
Or he is getting even for Ukraine playing nice with Hunter Biden. Also possible Trump doesn't even know about that, and he is just using his usual style of negotiating. Could also be a not very subtle hint at the EU that if they don't want to learn Russian, they had best up their game.
 
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petros

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I guess you missed the other teal coloured spots on the map that AREN'T in Donetsk? Maybe not as large individually but still very mineable.
Not at all. Its blatantly obvious they arent the deposits involved they're too tiny and lack the water and subsurface infrastructure for solution mining salts to be worth $500B after capital costs and a painfully slow ROE.

Donetsk its just a matter of flooding the 200km of massive tunnels under Soledar and Bakhmut and building an evaporator or precipitation system. Its a matter of months to high volume production at a fraction of the costs vs years to a product at a fraction of the volume.

Question, why on earth did you think you could win the arguement against an exploration and mine geologist?
 
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Ron in Regina

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The United States joined Russia to vote against a UN General Assembly resolution condemning Russia’s war against Ukraine Monday in a stunning shift from years of US policy.
1740443043350.jpegThe vote against the Ukrainian and European-backed resolution saw the US at odds with its longtime European allies and instead aligned with the aggressor in the war on the three-year anniversary of Moscow’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine.
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The resolution was adopted by the General Assembly with 93 votes in favor. It notes “with concern the full-scale invasion of Ukraine by the Russian Federation has persisted for three years and continues to have devastating and long-lasting consequences not only for Ukraine, but also for other regions and global stability” and “calls for a de-escalation, an early cessation of hostilities and a peaceful resolution of the war against Ukraine.”

The US had introduced a rival General Assembly resolution, which did not call Russia the aggressor or acknowledge Ukraine’s territorial integrity.
As Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and other world leaders declared solidarity with Ukraine on the third anniversary of Russia's full-scale invasion, U.S. President Donald Trump doubled down on plans to work with Russia to end the gruelling war and "recoup" American aid poured into the war effort by laying claim to Ukraine's critical mineral wealth.
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Trump made the comments on social media Monday in a post that took yet another expansionist shot against Trudeau, who was in Kyiv to attend the International Summit on the Support of Ukraine and lead a meeting of G7 leaders.

"The meeting was convened by Governor Justin Trudeau of Canada, the current chair of G7, to acknowledge the third anniversary of the Russia-Ukraine War — which would have never started if I was president," Trump wrote on Truth Social, after participating in the call with French President Emmanuel Macron from Washington.

(Would Trump have just surrendered 20% of Ukraine to Russia before Russia had invaded Ukraine?)

"Everyone expressed their goal of seeing the war end, and I emphasized the importance of the vital 'critical minerals and rare-earths deal' between the United States and Ukraine, which we hope will be signed very soon!"
Trump wrote that the deal — which Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has yet to sign — "will ensure the American people recoup the tens of billions of dollars and military equipment sent to Ukraine, while also helping Ukraine’s economy grow as this brutal and savage war comes to an end."
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Trump also said he still hoped to meet with Putin, nearly a week after senior U.S. officials met with Moscow representatives in Saudi Arabia — with no Ukrainian officials present — to chart a path toward ending the war and strengthening diplomatic and economic opportunities.
 

Jinentonix

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Vladonald Putrump.

Putrump claims the US sent $350 billion to Ukraine since the start of the war. Oddly though, the Pentagon states they have spent around $135 billion since 2014
Putrump claims that Europe isn't pulling their weight. While the US has contributed more military aid to Ukraine, Europe has contributed twice as much total aid as the US, including military aid.

I dunno, a small part of me is still hoping that Trump is playing his cards real close to his chest and is trying to convince Bedpan that China is Russia's only real threat. Which is 100% true.
NATO, the EU nor Europe in general want to conquer Russia. They don't even wanna invade it. Not out of fear but occupying a country that size is one thing, conquering it and maintaining control is another thing altogether. But China don't care. Xi is desperate for China to have a border with the Arctic to legitimize his current pathetic claim to it, even if it's just a piece of Russia that borders China and the Arctic.
Look at China, they're double ending the war in Ukraine, supplying both Russia and Ukraine with FPV drones. The Ukrainians are just better at "customizing" them and using them. Every dead Russia soldier, every destroyed military piece of equipment will make Xi's dreams come closer to fruition.
This war has cost Russia 1% of its male population. That's why Bedpan is desperate for it to end, but on his terms. Even if he decided to continue and ordered a general conscription his conscripts would be useless except as ammo absorbers. Russia can't even provide proper uniforms and boots to the troops they have now, never mind arming them. Bedpan is even reclassifying military personnel. Sailors from the Kuznetzov (sp) being shoved into the infantry. Nuclear missile techs being assigned to infantry units as assault troops. Medics being reassigned as tank commanders.

But I guess we can't let Russia collapse, again. Apparently 'too big to fail' also applies to countries run by complete assholes.