Omnibus Russia Ukraine crisis

The_Foxer

Council Member
Aug 9, 2022
1,760
1,153
113
Things I would not do if I was the largest air force in Europe and second largest in the world: let Ukraine establish & control bridging assets over major bodies of water I need them to not cross
This has flummoxed me a little. I mean the russian air force is nothing to sneeze at and they're ALL about the bombing and you'd THINK they'd have little trouble knocking out a few bridges and crossing areas, but it seems like they can't even slow the ukraines down. I get that there's a decent amount of forward anti aircraft missile systems and such but still.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
102,841
7,856
113
Moccasin Flats
Sure, i mean the reservists WERE all regular army at one point. Service is compulsory after all and then you're automatically put into the reserves. So i don't disagree with you for the reserves being mobilized right now.

But, you have to remember the premise being offered was that the initial invasion was being done without the russian military, that it was all mercenaries (wagner) and volunteer convicts and the like. Because it would have been illegal for the military until war was declared. 🤭

The russian military would not have been interested in turning over their planes, choppers, tanks etc to a mercenary army of course. and those people wouldn't be trained to fly them etc. It's ridiculous. Using them here and there as additional troops is one thing, putting the entire invasion in their hands .... well, i don't know that we need to discuss how insane that idea is any further.

But yes i'm sure the reservists can drive a tank or fly a plane with a little refresher training, but as we seem to both agree it's not going to be nearly as effective as the front line soldiers who already got their butts handed to them and are currently losing.

So i'm back to wondering what putin is thinking. i mean MAYBE if he could surge them all in at once tomorrow, but it's going to take a long time to get them all organized, equipped, give them at least SOME refresher training and you don't move that many men to ukraine overnight. If they just show up slowly the Ukrainians are going to eat them alive faster than they did the regular russian forces.
Rosgvardiya

Rosgvardiya (Russian: Росгвардия) is the internal military force of Russia, comprising an independent agency that reports directly to the President of Russia Vladimir Putin under his powers as Supreme Commander-in-Chief and Chairman of the Security Council.[2]

The National Guard is separate from the Russian Armed Forces.[2] A law signed by President Vladimir Putin established the federal executive body in 2016. The National Guard has the stated mission of securing Russia's borders, taking charge of gun control, combating terrorism and organized crime, protecting public order and guarding important state facilities.[3]

The establishment of the National Guard was seen[by whom?] as an effort to enhance efficiency and to avoid duplication of responsibilities within the Russian security system,[4] a result of an extensive assessment of strategic challenges facing Russia.[5]p. 6 Others have accused the Rosgvardyia of being an attempt by Vladimir Putin to create a private army to control civil strife or attempts of a colour revolution,[4] not only domestically but also abroad in friendly regimes.[6]

As of 2018 the National Guard numbered approximately 340,000 personnel in 84 units across Russia; it consolidated the forces of the MVD Internal Troops, SOBR, OMON and other internal military forces outside of the Russian Armed Forces.[1]
 

The_Foxer

Council Member
Aug 9, 2022
1,760
1,153
113

And while Russia flails on the battlefield, officials in Moscow have scrambled to assign blame for Russia’s abrupt turn in fortunes, a senior NATO official said.
“Kremlin officials and state media pundits have been feverishly discussing the reasons for the failure in Kharkiv and in typical fashion, the Kremlin seems to be attempting to deflect the blame away from Putin and onto the Russian military,” this person said.
But even if Russia is able to coalesce around a plan, US and western officials believe Russia is limited in its ability to mount a strategically significant response to Ukraine’s counteroffensive operations that in recent days, sources say, has swung the momentum in Kyiv’s favor. Even after the announcement of the partial mobilization, officials are skeptical that Russia is capable of quickly deploying large numbers of troops into Ukraine given its ongoing problems with supply lines, communications and morale.

Russia's main army has failed, and it looks at this point like Moscow is more interested in who's getting blamed for this. And those reserves aren't going to get to the battlefield in time or sufficient numbers to make a difference apparently.

Sounds like this is all over and Putin just doesn't want to admit it. His only options would be nukes at that point and i really have to wonder if his (remaining) generals would let him get away with that. At this point the guy is trashing his economy for nothing, and it's all about ego with no plan i suspect.
 

The_Foxer

Council Member
Aug 9, 2022
1,760
1,153
113
https://news.yahoo.com/russian-command-suspends-dispatch-military-161717242.html

I didn't realize this. Apperently as far back as the 12th, the Russian command suspended sending newly trained and created main russian army forces units to Ukraine because the defeat and death toll that the Russian Army had suffered was causing soldiers to flat out refuse to serve in that theatre. It specifically notes that ancillary forces such as mercinaries etc weren't counted. So - maybe that's why putin felt he had to go with conscription and start bringing in reserves? The remaining standing army forces weren't very keen to go after their fellow soldiers got mauled.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
102,841
7,856
113
Moccasin Flats
https://news.yahoo.com/russian-command-suspends-dispatch-military-161717242.html

I didn't realize this. Apperently as far back as the 12th, the Russian command suspended sending newly trained and created main russian army forces units to Ukraine because the defeat and death toll that the Russian Army had suffered was causing soldiers to flat out refuse to serve in that theatre. It specifically notes that ancillary forces such as mercinaries etc weren't counted. So - maybe that's why putin felt he had to go with conscription and start bringing in reserves? The remaining standing army forces weren't very keen to go after their fellow soldiers got mauled.
Please take a look at criminal code of the Russian federation chapter 34 and articles 353 & 354

Chapter 34. Crimes Against the Peace and Security Mankind
Article 353. Planning, Preparing, Unleashing, or Waging on Aggressive War
1. Planning, preparing, or unleashing an aggressive war shall be punishable by deprivation of liberty for a term of seven to fifteen years. 2. Waging an aggressive war shall be punishable by deprivation of liberty for a term of 10 to 20 years.
Article 354. Public Appeals to Unleash an Aggressive War
1. Public appeals to unleash an aggressive war shall be punishable by a fine in the amount up to 300 thousand roubles, or in the amount of the wage or salary, or any other income of the convicted person for a period up to two years, or by deprivation of liberty for a term of up to three years.
2. The same deeds, committed with the use of the mass media or by a person who holds a state post of the Russian Federation or a state post of a subject of the Russian Federation, shall be punishable by a fine in the amount of 100 thousand to 500 thousand roubles, or in the amount of the wage or salary, or any other income of the convicted person for a period of one to three years, or by deprivation of liberty for a term up to five years, with disqualification to hold specified offices or to engage in specified activities for a term of up to three years.
This is why he used the Rosgvardiya and Wagner. Its an "internal issue" at the request of DPR and LPR who are canidates to be part of the RU Federation.The same goes for Ukraine being a NATO canidate, have official access to arms and logistic support but not troops.
 

The_Foxer

Council Member
Aug 9, 2022
1,760
1,153
113

Looks like the problems are continuing. The non conscript main russian army troops are still refusing combat deployment. Unlike the conscripts they can't be sent to jail for it.

And it notes that even Wagner who fought ALONG WITH the RUSSIAN ARMY is also having recruiting issues still. They apperently were a very small percent of the force, with the main forces being the russian army of course, but they're still unable to fill their "vacancies."

It also seems like several of the 'elite' russian army units have been all but destroyed. I guess word got back to the others and now they're not so eager to go.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
102,841
7,856
113
Moccasin Flats
Are you slow?

Has Putin declared war? Fuck no. He cant send the regular army without the declaration and if he does he has to hand running the country over to the military with martial law, all industry and manufacturing goes to the war effort. Its the fucking Russian law.
 

bill barilko

Senate Member
Mar 4, 2009
5,619
331
83
Vancouver-by-the-Sea
This has flummoxed me a little. I mean the russian air force is nothing to sneeze at and they're ALL about the bombing and you'd THINK they'd have little trouble knocking out a few bridges and crossing areas, but it seems like they can't even slow the ukraines down. I get that there's a decent amount of forward anti aircraft missile systems and such but still.
Well aircraft require expensive & extensive maintenance if corruption is such an issue then not many bombers are 'battle ready' and everyone knows it especially the flight crews.
 

The_Foxer

Council Member
Aug 9, 2022
1,760
1,153
113
Well aircraft require expensive & extensive maintenance if corruption is such an issue then not many bombers are 'battle ready' and everyone knows it especially the flight crews.
Fair point.

I've seen the term "paper tiger" kicked around a lot lately when referring to the russian military forces. I guess given their performance here it's justified.
 

The_Foxer

Council Member
Aug 9, 2022
1,760
1,153
113

Looks like they basically have Lyman. The remaining Russian Army forces there are surrounded and there's no where near enough to hold the city.

That's a major strategic and symbolic victory for them. With that the entire region will likely fall in the not too distant future.
 

spaminator

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 26, 2009
32,396
2,387
113
'WE WERE TORTURED': U.S. captives 'prayed for death' on brutal ride from Ukraine
Author of the article:Associated Press
Associated Press
Jay Reeves
Publishing date:Sep 30, 2022 • 1 day ago • 3 minute read • 22 Comments

TUSCALOOSA, Ala. — Even after three months of captivity that included execution threats, physical torture, solitary confinement and food deprivation, it was the ride to freedom that nearly broke Alex Drueke, a U.S. military veteran released last week with nine other prisoners who went to help Ukraine fight off Russian invaders.


His hands were bound. His head was covered by a plastic bag, and the packing tape holding it in place was secured so tightly it it caused welts on his forehead. Drueke said he and fellow American prisoner Andy Huynh reached their limit in this state during the transit, which occurred in a series of vehicles from eastern Ukraine to an airport in Russia that was surrounded by armed guards.


“For all we went through and all the times we thought we might die, we accepted that we might die, we were ready to die when it came, that ride was the only time that each of us independently prayed for death just to get it over with,” Drueke told The Associated Press in an interview Friday.

“The mental and emotional torture of those last 24 hours in captivity, that was the worst,” he said.


Drueke, 40, is healing: The swelling is going down on his head and he’s trying to regain some of the 30 pounds (13.6 kilograms) he figures he lost eating a poor diet. But awful memories remain, and he’s unsure what comes next aside from trying to focus attention on fellow prisoners who remain in Russian hands.

“The war has not ended,” he said, speaking at the home he shares with his mother and other relatives in Tuscaloosa.

Drueke and Huynh, a 27-year-old fellow military veteran from Alabama, were among hundreds of Americans who went to Ukraine early on to help in the fight against Russia.

On June 9, they were captured during what Drueke described as a reconnaissance mission associated with Ukraine’s international legion, composed of foreign volunteers.


“Everyone else managed to make it back to the base safe,” he said.

Russian soldiers took the two men to their camp, and then into Russia for “intensive interrogation.” While declining to go into specifics, Drueke said the treatment was brutal.

“Every one of our human rights were violated,” he said. “We were tortured.”

The men were taken back to Ukraine to a “black site” in Donetsk for nearly a month of additional interrogation, he said. They were eventually taken to an isolation cellblock within a former Ukrainian prison. There, Drueke and Huynh were forced to record propaganda statements for a Russian video camera with soldiers in the room.

“On the positive side, there were times they would put us in a closet, bound and blindfolded, … while they were waiting for whatever reporter to show up, and it gave Andy and I just a few seconds to whisper things back and forth to check in on each other,” he said. “It was the first time we had talked in weeks at that point.”


Eventually, after weeks of confinement that included multiple threats, it became apparent that something — either a release, a prison transfer or execution — was in the works, said Drueke, who joined the U.S. Army Reserve after the terror attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, and served two tours in Iraq.

“We knew something was happening because our normal routine was being skewed and they were having us clear all of our personal stuff out of the cell,” he said.

But even then, the mental torture continued, he said. “One of the guards said a couple of times, ‘I’m pretty sure you guys are getting executed,”‘ he said.

Instead, they were part of a group of 10 men who were released Sept. 21 in a deal brokered by Saudi Arabia. The others who were released with them were from Croatia, Morocco, Sweden and the United Kingdom.

No one relaxed until the plane was in the air and an official from Saudi Arabia explained what was happening, he said. Landing in New York after a flight from Saudi Arabia, Drueke said he and Huynh were met by a Homeland Security official from an office that investigates war crimes.

Press aides with Homeland Security didn’t immediately return an email seeking comment, but the U.N. human rights investigators have said Ukrainian prisoners of war appear to be facing “systematic” mistreatment by Russian captors that includes torture.
 

The_Foxer

Council Member
Aug 9, 2022
1,760
1,153
113
I imagine the US military would love to inspect those.
i believe they already have, but they're not really a 'new' jet per se, it's based pretty heavily on the su-27 and modified to be a dedicated ground attack fighter with some AA capability.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Taxslave2