Octuplets... women are not meant to have litters

[JLM]

An unusual event to say the least, but really none of my business (or anyone else's either, unless it's the person who's footing the bill)

 

[JLM]

The reason it's my business is I pay for it.

I'm not talking about dictating who can have children, I'm talking about dictating how many embryos can be implanted at once. Many european countries have already done this without turning into totalitarian regimes.

You're right and when you go in for open brain or open heart surgery, someone else pays for it.

 

[JLM]

Good plan. Then we can move on to a maximum of 3 children per couple. No exceptions. After the third child - vascectomies are mandatory

The last thing we want is a bunch of bureaucrats dictating the size of families. Mother Nature in her infinite wisdom has much more scientific ways of controlling the world's population.

 

[Praxius]

Update:

Octuplets' grandmother criticizes daughter
CTV.ca | Octuplets' grandmother criticizes daughter

LOS ANGELES -- The mother of the woman who used a fertility doctor to give birth to octuplets, despite already having six young children, called her daughter's actions "unconscionable" in an interview posted online Sunday.

Angela Suleman is caring for the six older children while her daughter is hospitalized after giving birth Jan. 26 to the octuplets.

"She already has six beautiful children, why would she do this?" Angela Suleman said in the videotaped interview with celebrity news Web site RadarOnline.com. "I'm struggling to look after her six. We had to put in bunk beds, feed them in shifts and there's children's clothing piled all over the house."

The Web site posted photographs from inside Angela Suleman's disheveled three-bedroom home, where Nadya and her brood also live. Heaps of clothing pour from an open closet door and a carpeted bedroom, where a bedsheet serves as a curtain, is cluttered with cribs.

Nadya Suleman's publicist Mike Furtney said that his client has been away for nearly two months, so shouldn't be held responsible for the home's current condition.

Furtney said his client planned to move into a larger home once the octuplets were healthy enough to leave doctors' care.

He declined to comment on any of the remarks Angela Suleman made about her daughter in the interview.

"Those are very personal issues between a mother and a daughter," he said.

Angela Suleman said Nadya's boyfriend was the biological father of all 14 children, but that she refused to marry him.

"He was in love with her and wanted to marry her," she said. "But Nadya wanted to have children on her own."

Nadya Suleman, a divorced single mother, told NBC's "Today" show that the same fertility specialist provided in-vitro fertilization for all 14 of her children.

Angela Suleman seemed to contradict that account, saying the fertility specialist who helped her daughter give birth to the octuplets was a different doctor from the one who aided in the birth of her first six children.

Angela Suleman said she and her husband pleaded with Nadya's first fertility doctor not to treat their daughter again, so Nadya found another doctor to work with.

"I'm really angry about that," Angela Suleman said of the doctor's decision to perform the procedure.

A Medical Board of California spokeswoman said Friday that it was investigating the doctor -- who has not been identified -- to see if there was a "violation of the standard of care." The spokeswoman did not elaborate on the nature of the potential violations.

Angela Suleman also challenged her daughter's remarks in the NBC interview that she always wanted a large family to make up for the loneliness she felt as an only child.

"We raised her in a loving family and her father always spoiled her," Angela said.

Here's the kicker.... this so-called mother claims she wanted a big family and will always be there to take care of them and they will have her unconditional love and she will look after them, blah blah blah.

The problem here is that it's not her taking care of them.... it's her parents taking care of her children and herself, since she's still living with them. She had a boyfriend who wanted to marry her and start a life, but she in her selfish ways, refused to marry him and wanted to take care of them on her own?

Sounds good..... if she really wants to take care of them on her own, she should get the hell out of her parents house and do it..... she's 33 years old... wtf is her problem?

You know what this is?

She doesn't give a crap about having a big family.... she thinks this is a method to get out on her so-called "own", by doing what half the other families on TLC are doing..... have a friggin litter of kids and get your own TV show to cover your costs..... it's pathetic.

If you have more then John and Kate + 8, or that other family of 14 or god knows how many that just came on TV, then you get a little show of your own, with a house and food all paid and covered for in order to maintain the show.

All it costs is your privacy.

Actually it also costs those children their own privacy and the chance of a real childhood.

They should be taken away from her and she should be locked away until she gets her damn head checked.

I have no problem with people wanting big families..... so long as you have your own house and able to afford it. She is dragging not only her own parents down, but also those kids.

 

[tracy]

You're right and when you go in for open brain or open heart surgery, someone else pays for it.

That's not really true since unlike this woman, I have a job. Along with my job, I have a private insurance plan. They would pay for it. The general public doesn't have to make up for it.

But, even if I was on Medical like her, the difference is I wouldn't be choosing to have open heart surgery. That's a necessary procedure, it isn't done electively. She chose to implant all those embryos. Anyone who works in the health care field knows what that doctor did is wrong. Have as many kids as you want, have a big family... Don't put in 6 embryos at once! You guarantee a bad outcome when you do that.

 

[tracy]

The last thing we want is a bunch of bureaucrats dictating the size of families. Mother Nature in her infinite wisdom has much more scientific ways of controlling the world's population.

Mother Nature has nothing to do with in vitro fertilization.

 

[Zzarchov]

Mother Nature has nothing to do with in vitro fertilization.

Technically mother nature also has nothing to do with two people bumping uglies either then.

She's on medicaid and welfare, thats terrible, but its not an epidemic. I don't like supporting washed out losers hooked on smack, nor fixing the lungs of smokers , the livers of drinkers or the hearts of the obese.

But I do, because as much as I hate it, I'd rather that than have the government tell me if I can smoke, drink or eat fatty foods.

 

[tracy]

Technically mother nature also has nothing to do with two people bumping uglies either then.

She's on medicaid and welfare, thats terrible, but its not an epidemic. I don't like supporting washed out losers hooked on smack, nor fixing the lungs of smokers , the livers of drinkers or the hearts of the obese.

But I do, because as much as I hate it, I'd rather that than have the government tell me if I can smoke, drink or eat fatty foods.

2 people procreating through sex is entirely natural. IVF is an interference with that natural process. I have no problem with us interfering, but there does need to be reasonable limits to our interference just like there is with any other medical procedure.

The government regulates a lot of things (including smack usage). Few industries are more regulated than healthcare. What's the real objection to preventing doctors from implanting more than 3 embryos at a time? People can still have as many kids as they want.

 

[Praxius]

2 people procreating through sex is entirely natural. IVF is an interference with that natural process. I have no problem with us interfering, but there does need to be reasonable limits to our interference just like there is with any other medical procedure.

The government regulates a lot of things (including smack usage). Few industries are more regulated than healthcare. What's the real objection to preventing doctors from implanting more than 3 embryos at a time? People can still have as many kids as they want.

Agreed.... they should be limited to one at a time, even if the egg may not take, not 3 or 6. At least then it'd be a little closer to natural.

Then when they get pregnant, the chances of them having more then one would be limited by a heck of a lot..... then when they want a big family, they can deal with the pain and time needed for each birth.... then maybe they might re-think their future and family expectations.

Children are not accesories or a litter of puppies.

 

[Kreskin]

We did ivf and transferred 4. However the case was examined by a number of specialists who concluded it provided the right mix of risks for our situation. We had one baby. I suppose we weren't too far from 6 but we didn't already have 6 kids and the chances of us ever having one was always a long shot.

 

[Tyr]

The last thing we want is a bunch of bureaucrats dictating the size of families. Mother Nature in her infinite wisdom has much more scientific ways of controlling the world's population.

She's done such a wonderful job so far?

I doubt bureaucrats could dictate the size of families unless they were there at the time of conception. I don't know about you, but someone looking over my shoulder while I .....

anyways...

The thread was more towards, should someone be having 8 kids (she already has 6) artificially. Can she take care of them? Is she mentally competant? What will the kids life look like in 2, 5, 9, 16 yrs?

 

[karrie]

If someone wants to go for 4-8 rounds of IVF, and have 8 kids, great, good on them, have fun.

But no doc should be implanting more than three embryos in a woman. They're not cattle, or canines, and aren't meant to be having litters. The risk to the mother, the risk to the babies, and the guaranteed preterm births, are too huge a factor for any RESPONSIBLE physician to be treating her womb like it's a frigging clown car.

 

[karrie]

We did ivf and transferred 4. However the case was examined by a number of specialists who concluded it provided the right mix of risks for our situation. We had one baby. I suppose we weren't too far from 6 but we didn't already have 6 kids and the chances of us ever having one was always a long shot.

If the uterus is the issue, I can see upping the count to a max of four. But with this woman, her uterus was healthy. It's sheer insanity to put 6 embryos in a uterus that clearly has no trouble carrying pregnancies.

 

[Tyr]

I'm still all for a head tax per kid over the third

 

[karrie]

I'm still all for a head tax per kid over the third

I'm all for personal freedom.

And considering our birth rate still isn't even at replacement, you'll be hard pressed to find a government willing to discourage people from making them more tax payers.

 

[Risus]

An unusual event to say the least, but really none of my business (or anyone else's either, unless it's the person who's footing the bill)

And rest assured, the public will be footing the bill...

 

[Risus]

If someone wants to go for 4-8 rounds of IVF, and have 8 kids, great, good on them, have fun.

But no doc should be implanting more than three embryos in a woman. They're not cattle, or canines, and aren't meant to be having litters. The risk to the mother, the risk to the babies, and the guaranteed preterm births, are too huge a factor for any RESPONSIBLE physician to be treating her womb like it's a frigging clown car.

And what sort of life will the kids have down the road...

 

[karrie]

And what sort of life will the kids have down the road...

The large families I've known have great lives. I know more destitute small families than large ones. I can't predict the future, and neither can you, so it's not up to me to state what the right size is. (if you're responding to the first part of my post)

And if you're responding to the second part.... I won't hazard a guess at the health problems that may result for these kids from being packed 8 to a womb and born at less than 2lbs each.

 

[GreenFish66]

Doctors sell furtility drugs to better the womens chances of having children....When 6 of 8 pass from complications.Can those embryo's /fetus's be claimed for research?...Do they go to research?..Where do they go?..Anyone want to know?..Does this bother anyone?...What rules are in place to ensure proper discretion and care goes into the handling of those who don't make it.?Ensure Even more care and a good future for those who do live.?...Do the current rules keep up with new fertility techologies and other new embryo/ life science ...?

How many" synthetically cloned kids"(?) are too many?

How far does this issue go to protect the rights of enfants /children and mothers?...Is it alright for women to sell embryo's and children for money? .....The ol' baby factory scenario?

Science is a very useful tool to understanding all that encompasses and surrounds us,.. but where do we draw the line when it comes to profiting off issues of such contraversy?...New rules are necessary to ensure transparentcy and accountability in these areas of study

 

[tracy]

Greenfish, babies who die from complications or whatever, are treated however their parents choose (they make the arrangements the same as if it was a 5 year old child who died).

Women are not allowed to sell embryos or children. They can sell eggs and they can be paid to act as surrogates in the US. Canadian surrogates can't be paid, I believe.