Occupy Wall Street Fail

TenPenny

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Jun 9, 2004
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That's a perfect solution, and with no profits....have a basic minimum salary for CEOs.

In my humble opinion, no CEO should be rewarded with a bonus for losing money.
 

Locutus

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Jun 18, 2007
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What's that supposed to mean?

They come and go just as easily. One owner fires the 'bum' and the next hires him on for the sage experience and leadership their group of losers lacks. The placation illusion of everything is ok. We now have Mr. ___________ running the show.


The song remains the same.
 

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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Pay CEOs based on a reasonable percentage of profits. Problem solved.

Sadly, CEOs make the decisions and it is a wink:wink:nod when it comes to their salaries. His/her minions that don't approve the bloated salary may find themselves seeking another job or not in line for a big payout as well.

In my humble opinion, no CEO should be rewarded with a bonus for losing money.

ESPECIALLY if they received a taxpayer bailout! What angers me most is when they screw up they get tossed with a severence package that the average tax payer would never earn in a lifetime.

"Hey thanks for running us into the dirt... here's $10 Million to go away."
 

mentalfloss

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Jun 28, 2010
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Pay CEOs based on a reasonable percentage of profits. Problem solved.

As a slightly geek-aside, I know the CEO for Nintendo Japan (Satoru Iwata), recently took a salary cut when the company's latest device didn't sell enough units. They also dropped the price and are selling like hot cakes now (at a loss), but I haven't seen any CEO take direct responsibility like that before.
 

petros

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Nov 21, 2008
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The gig is up...run for your life...how fast can you run in oxfords?

As a slightly geek-aside, I know the CEO for Nintendo Japan (Satoru Iwata), recently took a salary cut when the company's latest device didn't sell enough units. They also dropped the price and are selling like hot cakes now (at a loss), but I haven't seen any CEO take direct responsibility like that before.
In Japan it was either that or suicide. I like that angle, if you **** up admit to it and deal with your shame appropriately.
 

Omicron

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Jul 28, 2010
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The main difference is that properly paid civil servants can't be bribed like if they were working in a third-world country,
WHAAAAAAT! You can't be serious! They are bribed all the time! Not just that, quite a few extort money. Our Massachusetts Speaker of the House just went to jail for taking money from a Canadian company for a state contract!
Perhaps on the congressional level - one of the inside secrets of congressional life is that they spend more than half of each day looking for funding - but on the ops level it's a known fact, learned by sociologists who did a study, that if you pay civil servants enough to live properly, then their inclination is not to corrupt, because they tend to like their job if paid enough for it.

If you've ever traveled through Mexico, you'll know that the way to get through a day is to bribe the local officials, and it just gets more extreme the further south you go. Currently it's not possible to do that in Canada nor the US because so-far the civil servants are being paid enough that you'd have to be involved in something astronomical and the level of bribe would have to be over the moon and past Pluto for there to be a chance, and even then you'd probably have to threaten their wife and kids, and even then you'd just be making things more iffy.

An interesting example comes from the former Soviet state of Georgia.

Like all ex-Soviet states, their cops were corrupt, because they weren't paid enough, which means they also didn't give a hoot about the moral purpose of their jobs, because of the hypocrisy.

Georgia did something interesting. They sacked 2/3's of the force, keeping only the ones with a natural sense for the job, and *trippled* the keepers salaries. From the state's point of view it was costing the same, but now they had cops who were actually keen to do their job, and were *way* less bribe-able.

And yes... with that 1/3 sized police force, enforcement became more efficient and the streets became safer.

So... hmm... do civil servants need unions?

I dunno. People don't unionize when management and ownership have enough sense and wits to make it so workers don't feel a need to unionized, and you can tell when you've got doofus in management when the only way they can think of to not be employing unions is with threats of psycho-tyranny.
 
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captain morgan

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Mar 28, 2009
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So you're not denying it.

I simply stated that if TenPenny believed that to be the case, then (essentially) that is his opinion... Nothing more, nothing less.


It's not current "value". It's current "rate". There's no way it's "valuable" to leach all the money out of an economy into the hands of a few who don't know how to re-invest it any more than it's "valuable" for oncogenes to take all the nutrients out of a body and not participate as an organ.

I see.. So what's the applicable "rate" on leaching money out of an economy then?

haha, I'm joking... All kidding aside, I got a real laugh out of your comment about the "few" that don't know how to re-invest, you do understand that it was "the few" that guided the US economy to the point where all of that money was actually made.

Oh gee, and what might that reaction be? People actually qualified to organize filling the gap as proper managers?

You bet, and for minimum wage to boot!

There's another upside as well, those positions and the economy will act as a good training ground for all of these new, inexperienced managers. Once the poor performers are weeded out (with a little pain to the company and economy along the way), the superior managers will pick-up and move to another country where they get paid better than min wage... They will make room for more manager trainees to learn the system.. What a bonus!

.... A few hiccups to along the way, but at least you'll be living in your proletarian utopia!

What's that supposed to mean?

That baseball managers bribe umpires like how Goldman sacked Washington?

I love you tin-foilers... I always smile when I read your rants.
 

EagleSmack

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Perhaps on the congressional level - one of the inside secrets of congressional life is that they spend more than half of each day looking for funding -

I'm not even talking about Congress. I am talking about local state level politicians.

but on the ops level it's a known fact, learned by sociologists who did a study, that if you pay civil servants enough to live properly, then their inclination is not to corrupt, because they tend to like their job if well paid for it.

Here in Massachusetts the Democrats rule supreme and you are partially right. They get paid a fortune. However the only way to get the jobs is you have to know someone. The State hack that gets you a job has another department hire you. Then the State hack that hired you gets one of his people hired by the guy you knew.

My state is rife with corruption and massive payouts and laws guarenteeing them HUGE retirements, all tax payer funded. It is insanity. Massachusetts is a family run business and the goal is to feather each and every state worker's nest.

Massachusetts Toll Collectors make about $50K-$60 a year for making change. And they are still getting caught skimming money.


So... hmm... do civil servants need a union?

They do have a Union... and it is strong... very strong. Much stronger than any trade union because they are HUGE and they vote. They know the only thing that keeps the Gravy Train moving is to elect the Democrats in over and over.

I dunno. People don't unionize when management and ownership have enough sense and wits to make it so workers don't feel a need to unionized, and you can tell when you've got doofus in management when the only way they can think of to not be employing unions is with threats of psycho-tyranny.

I assure you, Massachusetts state and local governments have little sense. They do know how to run governemnt like organized crime though. Strength in numbers and when the state is broke...

"FU... Pay Me! It's in my contract... Pay it!"
 

captain morgan

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Mar 28, 2009
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Well, we know that you can't say much.

And yes, my view is that these CEOs are over paid. And I know what the reaction to cutting CEO pay would be, very little. Sure, a bunch would run away crying. But in the end, they'd be replaced by equally, or more highly capable people. They are out there, despite what the fear mongers say.


Ofcourse they're over paid by your standard. Anyone that makes more than you is likely overpaid and therefore deserves your derision.

I see that you don't have a problem with hoping and praying that someone with as much capability will replace those that go, nor does it even occur to you that the learning curve in these positions costs real money in terms of productivity... But, that's lost on you, isn't it - you can't see far enough ahead to understand what things like opportunity cost is.

People like you are never happy TenPenny and your solution is to drag everyone down into the same miserable existence that you occupy.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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If it's so sad, then why are we doing it?
 

Omicron

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Ofcourse they're over paid by your standard. Anyone that makes more than you is likely overpaid and therefore deserves your derision.
Oh crumb, another one who thinks that if someone is objecting to another's modus operandi, it's because they're jealous.

It's like, you're cutting down a forest because you like the cracking sound just before it falls, someone comes along and says, "Hey, you shouldn't be doing that", and you say, "Aw you're just jealous that you don't have a chain-saw".

I see that you don't have a problem with hoping and praying that someone with as much capability will replace those that go,
Who *would* have a problem with that?

Do you have a problem with wondering how the corrupt incompetents got position in the first place?
nor does it even occur to you that the learning curve in these positions costs real money in terms of productivity...
Oh I see, so you're admitting that in fact universities didn't teach them jack-sh*t before handing them an MBA. Now they have to learn on our dime. "Go ahead and collapse the economy a couple of times... we're sure you'll get it right if you keep trying". Let's train officers that way. "Your last couple battles cost the lives of all your troops and we lost ground. Nice to see you moving up the learning curve."
But, that's lost on you, isn't it - you can't see far enough ahead to understand what things like opportunity cost is.
Who's it *costing*???

Is he going to pay everyone back after bankrupting people with his incompetent "learning" via some sort of bumbling process of trial-and-error?

People like you are never happy TenPenny and your solution is to drag everyone down into the same miserable existence that you occupy.
:rolleyes: Again, you're thinking that if others object to your fascination for rape, it's because they're jealous and must be too chicken to try it themselves. You're being like those ticks from NAMBLA saying they are the ones being natural and that it's you not being brave enough to admit that you have the same feelings!!!

In fact, 82% of a typical human population is quite content with what we call a middle-class standard of living. Once they have some electricity, hot-and-cold clean running water, with a stove and fridge and toilet and a car, some heat in the winter, some air-conditioning in the summer, and some detergent for the laundry in their washing machine, with three squares a day and a big bed to sleep on with their loved one, they tend to be quite content, and will be prone to think that those obsessed with having more ought to spend their surplus inventing holo-dec artificial-reality chambers in which to play out their fantasy of equating social bothersomeness with love.
 
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EagleSmack

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If it's so sad, then why are we doing it?

We aren't doing anything. I have no say whatsoever on what the Goldman-Sachs, GM, GE, etc Board of Trustees pays their CEOs.

Nor do you.

If there are no reasons for people to be pissed at Wall Street, then why are they pissed at Wall Street?

I think there are reasons... but when this "Occupy Wall St." crowd gets out there and says...

"Forgive my Student Loans NOW!"

"Stop Foreclosures NOW!"

"Free Range Eggs!" (that's for you Petros)

etc.

... then they're just a bunch a bunch of people with their hands out for something that isn't theirs. Gimmeegimmeegimmee... I want what you have ... I'm entitled to what I didn't earn.
 

petros

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We aren't doing anything. I have no say whatsoever on what the Goldman-Sachs, GM, GE, etc Board of Trustees pays their CEOs.

Nor do you.
If your Govt. has one single penny invested in any company whether to shore it up or as pension investments you do have every right to speak your mind. If the Gov is a representation of the people and your money is in it they are obligated to crack down. Who allows them to operate in your country?
 

Omicron

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Jul 28, 2010
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I have no say whatsoever on what the Goldman-Sachs, GM, GE, etc Board of Trustees pays their CEOs.

Nor do you.
Well, actually, in a real democracy not bought out by those chaps, yeah, we would have a say, in terms of being able to choose to buy stuff from their competition, which hasn't happened since deregulation enabled them to form everything into a monopoly.

I think there are reasons... but when this "Occupy Wall St." crowd gets out there and says...

"Forgive my Student Loans NOW!"

"Stop Foreclosures NOW!"

"Free Range Eggs!" (that's for you Petros)

etc.

... then they're just a bunch a bunch of people with their hands out for something that isn't theirs. Gimmeegimmeegimmee... I want what you have ... I'm entitled to what I didn't earn.

Hmm... well, in the first place, I think a lot of those goons at the rally were plants, put their by Wall Street to make the protesters look bad.

In the second place, one day I was doing some arithmetic, and I noticed that if the government had spent the bailout money paying off everyone's mortgage instead of giving it to corrupt Wall Street entities in the hopes that Wall Street would not foreclose on all those variable-rate mortgages, that in fact it would have been cheaper, plus people would have still had a place to live.