Obama has sold out American Air Defense
- Thread starter ironsides
- Start date
Yes, I know we do, but our aircraft have to be that much better for that reason. We cannot afford to have equality with them at this time in history, someday maybe. There is still a trust issue between us and them.
Hey goofy! Did you bother to read the first post on this thread? Here it is for your little eyes only:
Guess Obama screwed us again by selling us a bill of goods that the F-35 would be almost as good as the F-22. By cutting the F-22 budget and substituting it for the F-35 which is an inferior plane all around, Obama has put America's future in jeopardy.
Fair enough; a state has a right to remain superior and neither Russia nor China are exactly beacons of democracy and human rights. But neither have historically been expansionist outside of their regions. Interference in other regions of the world has been almost exclusive to Western Europe over the last five centuries and the US in collaboration with Britain throughout the 20th century up to today.
You could argue that the global economy is like a chess game and that the US can't afford to let the Asian powers get an upper hand--the underlying bias being that it is still better to be dominated by greedy yet civilized Western interests than moral-less barbarians from Asia--but development in these regions has mainly been a reaction to western aggressive militarism (since the Revolution in the case of Russia and before the Opium Wars in China's case). There is no real indication that these states would go on a rampage, absent the US or EU; their "aggressiveness" can be traced mainly to business competition, with Western powers using what can only be called imperialist methods to maintain supreme control over a globalized economy of their own creation.
And as I have said and is well known to anyone who cares to notice, both the elites in Russia and China know their assets are heavily dependent on the Western economies--the idea that suddenly these regimes would bite the hand that feeds them just doesn't follow. Down the line maybe: if, like the Russian Czars or French aristocracy foolishly oppressing the peasant masses, the US overdoes it keeping the Asian powers' economies limited as it does with the developing world, then one could foresee an eventual conflict erupting (not unrealistic considering what the US is presently doing in Central Asia and the Middle East). Otherwise, there is little evidence to support your claim.
Fact is, Russia and China have just as much right to develop their economies as the US does.
Or to put it another way: Iran has just as much right to develop a nuclear deterrent to overt US/British and Israeli aggression as the latter have to invest billions in advanced weapons tech meant for the preservation of peace, freedom and democracy.
If actions define trust, then what of the fact that the US has been condemned by the International Criminal Court for blatant violation of international law more than both China and Russia combined?
You were doing pretty good until you mentioned the rogue state of Iran. Iran is like YouTube - ?2010???? 1080HD?17 - ???? Magic Show 2/2 ?? Liu Qian
No, they do not have the right to create what they are doing with what they have running them now.
No, they do not have the right to create what they are doing with what they have running them now.
So true, a nation built on debt, if they keep this crap up it will make Greece look like a picnic.:roll:
Sure but then the term, "rogue state" can be just as well applied to the US (a state with a history of unilateral and aggressive foreign policy in direct contradiction of international law).
The deal with Iran is this: they are trying to buy time as the US edges ever closer. They tried to trade cancellation of their nuclear program for guaranteed US non-aggression but the US has refused to accept any such deals. So, Iran is moving ahead with the nuclear program as the only means of deterring US aggression.
Since US aggression in the region is undeniable, applying nuclear arms limits on Iran is in this case beneficial to the actual aggressor from whom a nuclear deterrent is the only credible defence. So saying Iran does not have the right to build nuclear weapons is akin to saying Iran does not have the right to legitimate self-defence. And since aggression is a greater crime than breaching nuclear proliferation treaties, then clearly Iran does have the right to build nuclear weapons and presently has more legitimate reasons for doing so than the US has for upgrading an already unmatchable military force.
Fiscal coservativeness is highly overrated. Most Americans are politically conservative in every way but fiscally.
If you want to trust the like of Iran with nuclear weapons go right ahead "stupid is as stupid does". I case you don't realize it or forgot, the U.S., Russia have had nuclear capabilities for 65+ years now and that deterrent alone has kept the world from blowing up each other. Other countries also have nuclear bombs now, it is the so called rogue countries like Iran, N. Korea, Pakistan etc that I worry about. We don't need here today gone tomorrow governments having the ability to blow up the world.
If they are the best in the world, we need them. Must always have the newest and best at all times. :smile:
Ah, yes, materialism at its best. I'm sue we all know a neighbour or two who'll sell his computer off every year for the newest, most up to date model available. I know one who's gone through at least thirty motorcycles in his life so far, at his own admission. We can only imagine how much debt these guys carry.
But when you apply that to a government, God help the nation it governs.You think computers and motorcycles are expensive?imagine scrapping perfectly functional fighter aircraft bought just a few years earlier because some newer better model just came out.
Ah, fiscal conservatism, an unknown concept in the US it would seem. And that will soon be your wort enemy. How would the US Marine Corps dig the US government out of a Greek-style crisis? What? Plunder and pillage another country? Well, if an army is all you have left, and it's the most powerful army in the world, you can imagine how dangerous such a government could be. Why go though all the austerity measures when you can just conquer another country and get them to pay. Let's hope it never gets to that, and that's why I'd be all for Canada slapping some economic sense into the US' head ASAP, for our own good as well as theirs.
If the US would quit pissing off the whole rest of the world they could save a bundle on military and homeland security and have a functioning health care plan with no debt.
My Gawd, but then they'd have to reject American Exceptionalism. They couldn't feel so exceptional anymore without that exceptionally big army supported by an exceptionally big debt.
Who said anything about trust? I don't trust Switzerland.
That wasn't my point.
My point: Iran has the right to build nuclear weapons. (That doesn't mean Iran should build nuclear weapons--for reasons that don't need explanation.)
Anyway, forget Iran.
Your whole issue has been with the new F-35 budget and how the F-22 has been swiped to the side. Fact is missile tech is advancing just as fast if not faster than aircraft tech and what the US already has can kick anybody's butt without breaking a sweat, so clearly these advanced aircraft production programs are for economic, not military reasons.
So some kind of misplaced national pride in the quality of what a mega-conglomerate can produce aside, who gives a crap if they work well or not? They will not be needed for any conflict in the foreseeable future--at least not before their operational life is over. (The testing is important but you don't need massive wings of super advanced aircraft for that.)
As an American, you should be bothered more by the fact that the majority of US government funds go to inefficient mega projects like that one, while your honest businessman can't get a decent loan to start a business that doesn't need infusions of tax dollars every year to keep it viable.
Why?
Do you even know how much you waste on military spending?
Tell me, why do you still have a base in Germany?
....and you're worried about government spending and debt?
What a joke guys like you are.
Neo-cons at work....what cracks me up is you don't even know what a neo-con is and you rant and rave about liberals.:lol::roll::lol::roll:
Look it up sometime.