Nova Scotia may turn Orange

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
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Saint John, N.B.
Well, I was a left-wing loonie, then my brain stem (over time) became fully attached...........:)

Seriously, my main concern is liberty, and as I grew, I began to realize that the greatest threats to our liberty came from the left, not the right.

It is simple really.

Government can not be trusted, as it will draw all power possible to itself.

therefore, the more government, the less liberty.

Simple formula.
 

athabaska

Electoral Member
Dec 26, 2005
313
0
16
I'm from Nova Scotia. Left the welfare province and came to Alberta. What a relveation.

Gee whiz, hard work and self-responsibility brings success. Nova Scotia on the other hand is a third generation miredin a culture of chronic losers and takers. The intelligent and innovative individuals have left for more positive regions. Left behind are the dregs of society. Unfortunately they aren't even fazed by being a a province on welfare...no dignity.
 

Lotuslander

Electoral Member
Jan 30, 2006
158
0
16
Vancouver
Athabaska wrote:

I'm from Nova Scotia. Left the welfare province and came to Alberta. What a relveation.

Gee whiz, hard work and self-responsibility brings success. Nova Scotia on the other hand is a third generation miredin a culture of chronic losers and takers. The intelligent and innovative individuals have left for more positive regions. Left behind are the dregs of society. Unfortunately they aren't even fazed by being a a province on welfare...no dignity.

Well, I quite agree that life is what you make of it, though I wouldn't be so callous as to call Bluenosers the dregs of society. Especially since that province gave us both freedom of the press and responsible government; whereas, intellectually speaking Alberta has so far not been able, kind enough or perhaps generous enough to invent or create anything which is of metaphysical value to the rest of Canada or the world. The one resource it does have in abundance, oil, was, as we all know, generously given to them by the Government of Canada in 1930 in order for those lazy, self-absorbent farmers, immigrants, Metis and other residents of Alberta (sic) to stop from nursing from the proverbial federal teat!

George Grant, the philosopher, a transplanted Upper Canadian, called Halifax "the cultural centre of Canada". Perhaps this is where Nova Scotia derives it's worth; through art, literature, music, song dance, history, philosophy, law. I should remind you that Dalhousie had the first law school in Canada. A Nova Scotian helped to create and later became the first president of the Canadian Medical Association. Rita MacNeill, Anne Murray (neither of whom I can stand personally) celtic music. Or if one prefers business James Dunn at one time one of the richest men in Canada or Issac Walton Killam or Samuel Cunard who's legacy is still afloat today in the form of the Queen Mary II. Yet somehow in Athabaska's opinion Bluenosers are neither intelligent nor innovative!

The only thing which is neither intelligent nor innovative are your unfounded generalisations!
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
3,786
0
36
Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
Re: RE: Nova Scotia may turn Orange

Colpy said:
Well, I was a left-wing loonie, then my brain stem (over time) became fully attached...........:)

Seriously, my main concern is liberty, and as I grew, I began to realize that the greatest threats to our liberty came from the left, not the right.

It is simple really.

Government can not be trusted, as it will draw all power possible to itself.

therefore, the more government, the less liberty.

Simple formula.

I can understand that. But I do believe the government programs the NDP stand for are largely beneficial for Canadians. I may be a (Left) Libertarian but I don't think a government which supports equility, education and health care is anti-Libertarian. However I know there are a few Democrat stances which may be a little economic interferance which isn't need coming from the Labour side of the party.
 

athabaska

Electoral Member
Dec 26, 2005
313
0
16
"George Grant, the philosopher, a transplanted Upper Canadian, called Halifax "the cultural centre of Canada". Perhaps this is where Nova Scotia derives it's worth; through art, literature, music, song dance, history, philosophy, law."

Sure, all funded via governmnet taxdollars from folks in Ontario and the West.

Fortunately many of us Nova Scotians (same applies to ex-pat Newfounlanders) see through the artificial 'quaintness' of a culture that doesn't exist except in the minds of a few artsy-fartsy intellectuals. The culture I lived in before getting out was one of fellows who collect their EI cheque and drive the back road with a case of beer in the back seat.

Many of the smart, hard workers have left the province. Many of the remaining population are litle different than they were when they were 18-years-old... with a bottle of beer, TV on and the last thing they do is listen to a fiddler and highland dancer that never was part of their youth or adult culture. There is the real Nova Scotia and the phony one.

Fortunately the welfare mentality of Atlantic Canada is becoming less relevent to Canada as populations shift and relocate. Atlantic Canada was 10% of the poulation when I left. Now it's around 8% and the trend continues.
 

EastSideScotian

Stuck in Ontario...bah
Jun 9, 2006
706
3
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39
Petawawa Ontario
Re: RE: Nova Scotia may turn Orange

athabaska said:
Nova Scotia the cultural center? Center of what? Fortunately many of us Nova Scotias see through the artificial 'quaintness' of a culture that doesn't exist except in the minds of a few artsy-fartsy intellectuals. The culture I lived in before getting out was one of fellows who collect their EI cheque and drive the back road with a case of beer in the back seat.

Many of the smart, hard workers have left the province. Many of the remaining population are litle different than they were when they were 18-years-old... with a bottle of beer, TV on and the last thing they do is listen to a fiddler and highland dancer that never was part of their youth or adult culture. There is the real Nova Scotia and the phony one.
I dont know what to agree with in this post really. I do see what you are saying though. Cultural center?
We dont evne have much of that left.... Most of our Cultural Idenity dies withthe sinking fish industry. As for what the rest of Canada knows about Nova Scotia, is what they see on our God awful travel commercails.....I dont remember I went into a pub and it was packed...needless to say heard celtic music...You might see that in some Tourist traps but Like Athabaska said, Most of us are run of the mill Canucks beer and tv.

One thing I must say is, we are hard workers, we will go anywhere to work and we will work hard, I hate the whole idea that Nova Scotians and Easterners are lazy... We have pride in having a job and working it well.. We might be the only place left In Canada where teens understand a hard days work.
 

Lotuslander

Electoral Member
Jan 30, 2006
158
0
16
Vancouver
Athabaska wrote:

"George Grant, the philosopher, a transplanted Upper Canadian, called Halifax "the cultural centre of Canada". Perhaps this is where Nova Scotia derives it's worth; through art, literature, music, song dance, history, philosophy, law."

Sure, all funded via governmnet taxdollars from folks in Ontario and the West.

First off, equalisation money doesn't come from anywhere but the federal government; who collects the taxes. The Federal Government then decides what it will spend money on, so infering that money is actually paid by the West or Ontario is at best somewhat disingeneous. It is the federal government which sets its own priorities.

Secondly, The West have not always been a "have provinces". This is one of the reasons why the feds gave resource rights to Alberta and Saskatchewan in 1930. To put it bluntly before the transfer they were unable to generate enough revrnue to fund even basic pre-welfare state services and it was not until the 70s and the oil crisis that Alberta became a have province.

Thirdly, in regards for who pays for what. Currently the Nova Scotian government receives about 1 billion dollars from the federal government every year. This represents about 20% of government revenue, the other 80% being generated by Nova Scotia. However, not all of this money is equalisation money. All provinces receive some funds from the federal government in order to pay for social services etc...what used to be called the Canada Health and Social Transfer. What % of the 1B is actually equalisation money I don't know.

Athabaska wrote:

Fortunately many of us Nova Scotians (same applies to ex-pat Newfounlanders) see through the artificial 'quaintness' of a culture that doesn't exist except in the minds of a few artsy-fartsy intellectuals. The culture I lived in before getting out was one of fellows who collect their EI cheque and drive the back road with a case of beer in the back seat.

Many of the smart, hard workers have left the province. Many of the remaining population are litle different than they were when they were 18-years-old... with a bottle of beer, TV on and the last thing they do is listen to a fiddler and highland dancer that never was part of their youth or adult culture. There is the real Nova Scotia and the phony one.

Once again your genralisations are somewhat astounding. Obviously you have some personal issue regarding the time you spent in Nova Scotia. I should point out that driving the back roads with a case of beer on the back seat is not exclusively a Nova Scotian phenomenom but, is done almost anywhere in Canada where back roads exist amongst a certain class of people.

When George Grant refers to the cultural centre of Canada-and I would point out he is speaking of Halifax- he is not talking about fiddle music exclusively but a way aof life, community, respect, tradition, continuality. Now it is true that most Bluenosers do not go to the bar and start highland dancing on a Saturday night but, from my own anecdotal experiences Bluenoser and Maritimeres in general do seem more musical than people form other parts of Canada or perhaps there are simply more musicians in that part of the world. The destitution, alcoholism etc... you spoke of earler is I am afraid, similar in all rural parts of Canada with high unemployment.

Finally, I don't know why you are so down on Atlantic Canadians in general. They are as you pointed out only 8% of the population. The rest of Canada really doesn't spend that much in equalisation money to them every year-Quebec being by far the primary beneficiary of this program. Also while equalisation money does go to Nova Scotia, NB, NFLD, PEI, Que, Man, YK, NWT, Nunavut(who receive 80% of revenue from the feds) they miss out (Nova Scotia) on other federal programs. For example, Vancouver is building a new rapid transit line called the Canada Line. Guess which government ponied up the 500 million dollars to have a subway named after them? Halifax doesn't receive that kind of generosity for their transit needs. My point being that I think this who'le equalisation debate has been misconstrued since somethings are deemed equalisation while others such as the Canada Line are dubbed infrastrucutre projects etc...In actual fact out of a 200 billion dollar federal budget less than 10% is allotted for equalisation.

Finally as I pointed out before the provinces who don't receive equalisation receive other benefits. Alberta and Saskatchewan were given the federal government's resource rights in their provinces, Ontario is home to the Capital and federal government and all the benefits and jobs that entails and BC-who really in my opinion got the short end of the stick- got a railroad as did Alta, Manitoba and Saskatchewan paid for by Ontarians, Quebeckers and Maritimers. So in a way all provinces are somewhat subsidised by one another.
 

Vicious

Electoral Member
May 12, 2006
293
4
18
Ontario, Sadly
RE: Nova Scotia may turn

Tell the truth.

"RAVCO was set up by the agencies funding the transit line to oversee project design, procurement, construction and implementation. The budget comes from the following sources:

* Government of Canada: $450 million
* Government of British Columbia: $365 million
* Vancouver Airport Authority: $300 million
* TransLink: $400 million"

You make it sound like the RAV line (now the Canada line ) is a gift forom the people of Canada. If you check the numbers you'll see that Canada, BC and Vancouver are partners in the line. I don't think this is any different than the Toronto and Montreal subways.
 

Vicious

Electoral Member
May 12, 2006
293
4
18
Ontario, Sadly
RE: Nova Scotia may turn

In general I think equalization should be abolished. If my interpretation of the reading I've done is correct. Than based on the original equalization formulas in 1957, no provice would qualify. The CHT and CST should be enough. Equalization has evolved since 1957 and is now part of the constitution so I guess we're stuck with it.
 

athabaska

Electoral Member
Dec 26, 2005
313
0
16
'Stuck with' is the word. Three and four generations as wefare provinces.

No, all Atlantic Canadian aren't lazy. Many of them have picked themselve up by the bootstraps and made a life for themselves in Alberta, B.C. etc. A good life to provide their children with future self-worth and not live off the public teat.

We can't get workers in Alberta. Meanwhile Alberta taxpayers (many from Atlantic Canada) send bags of money to Atlantic Canada so the bums they grew up with can continue to sit on their fat arses.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
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Saint John, N.B.
athabaska said:
'Stuck with' is the word. Three and four generations as wefare provinces.

No, all Atlantic Canadian aren't lazy. Many of them have picked themselve up by the bootstraps and made a life for themselves in Alberta, B.C. etc. A good life to provide their children with future self-worth and not live off the public teat.

We can't get workers in Alberta. Meanwhile Alberta taxpayers (many from Atlantic Canada) send bags of money to Atlantic Canada so the bums they grew up with can continue to sit on their fat arses.

Don't be an arsehole.

I've lived in Atlantic Canada all my life, and I've damn well worked hard all my life, at everything from farm hand to history teacher.

Atlantic Canadians are very good people, I have no idea why you are so vehemently insulting about the entire subject.....

Leads one to wonder.....did you leave, or were you booted out?
 

Lotuslander

Electoral Member
Jan 30, 2006
158
0
16
Vancouver
Vicious wrote:


Tell the truth.

"RAVCO was set up by the agencies funding the transit line to oversee project design, procurement, construction and implementation. The budget comes from the following sources:

* Government of Canada: $450 million
* Government of British Columbia: $365 million
* Vancouver Airport Authority: $300 million
* TransLink: $400 million"

You make it sound like the RAV line (now the Canada line ) is a gift forom the people of Canada. If you check the numbers you'll see that Canada, BC and Vancouver are partners in the line. I don't think this is any different than the Toronto and Montreal subways.

Tell the truth? Are you accusing me of lying? Get real buddy or chicky! Maybe I should accuse you of slander!

In any case, while I may be 50 million off on the contribution of the Government of Canada I suspect that the final price, gift, grant or contribution from the feds will be more than currently promised due to the all but certain cost overruns.

Personally, I do not think I indicated that the feds were paying for the entire line, though I can see why some who have no knowledge of the Canada Line might thiink so from my comments.

Also while equalisation money does go to Nova Scotia, NB, NFLD, PEI, Que, Man, YK, NWT, Nunavut(who receive 80% of revenue from the feds) they miss out (Nova Scotia) on other federal programs. For example, Vancouver is building a new rapid transit line called the Canada Line. Guess which government ponied up the 500 million dollars to have a subway named after them? Halifax doesn't receive that kind of generosity for their transit needs.

My point is not that it is any different form the Montreal or Toronto subway systems! My point is that these communities are given funds for massive and expensive infastructure projects while medium sized cities in the Maritimes and other places lose out. Some could argue that the suburbs of Toronto where most people in the GTA live are unfairly subsidising, paying equalisation if you will, in order for urbaintes of Toronto to use rapid transit. The same can be said of provinces and equalisation: Some provinces and cities receive large amounts of funds to build rapid transit lines while others Edmonton or Victoria are given much less. In any case these grants are not tallied into the equalisation formula, though in effect they could be seen as a subsidy since the federal government has no juridiction in the area of local transportation (highways being a different matter).
 

Lotuslander

Electoral Member
Jan 30, 2006
158
0
16
Vancouver
Athabaska wrote:

We can't get workers in Alberta. Meanwhile Alberta taxpayers (many from Atlantic Canada) send bags of money to Atlantic Canada so the bums they grew up with can continue to sit on their fat arses.

Perhaps Alberta can't get enough workers because it is not really that nice of a place to live; the climate, people, environment etc... I've been to Edmonton, Calgary, Red Deer, Brooks and while I can't complain about the people Edmonton was, to be polite, rather grey, not very attractive. Calgary is better and at least has a interesting downtown but the city planner and council is ruining what they have with urban sprawl: Have they learned nothing form Toronto? Every time I fly over Calgary the cul de sacs keep growing. You need a car if you're going to live in those suburbs and the poor kids who are going to grow up there will have nothing to do. Mark my words: Soon Calgary will have air pollution as bad as Toronto!
 

Andem

dev
Mar 24, 2002
5,645
129
63
Larnaka
Re: RE: Nova Scotia may turn Orange

Mogz said:
Alberta and Ontario will never turn fully NDP. That just won't happen, neither will Quebec. The NDP are living in a time warp, their views and/or practices don't fit in to the 21st Century. Then again, that's just my views. I'd rather see the Liberal Party in power any day of the week over the NDP, and I hate the Liberals. Imagine what I think of the NDP. Hell I even like the Bloc more than the NDP....kidding on that one :p

I couldn't agree with you more regarding Ontario and Alberta. Ontario has had major issues with an NDP party in power, and the province is still paying for it to this day. In my opinion, the NDP are neither business-friendly nor do they have any grasp of how to handle a budget; they refuse to look at a situation in the long term.
 

Andem

dev
Mar 24, 2002
5,645
129
63
Larnaka
Lotuslander said:
Athabaska wrote:

We can't get workers in Alberta. Meanwhile Alberta taxpayers (many from Atlantic Canada) send bags of money to Atlantic Canada so the bums they grew up with can continue to sit on their fat arses.

Perhaps Alberta can't get enough workers because it is not really that nice of a place to live; the climate, people, environment etc... I've been to Edmonton, Calgary, Red Deer, Brooks and while I can't complain about the people Edmonton was, to be polite, rather grey, not very attractive. Calgary is better and at least has a interesting downtown but the city planner and council is ruining what they have with urban sprawl: Have they learned nothing form Toronto? Every time I fly over Calgary the cul de sacs keep growing. You need a car if you're going to live in those suburbs and the poor kids who are going to grow up there will have nothing to do. Mark my words: Soon Calgary will have air pollution as bad as Toronto!

I wouldn't say Calgary will have pollution as bad as Toronto. Toronto has a pretty good public transit system right now, and the majority of the smog and pollution is a direct result of the weather patterns and jet stream coming up from Michigan and the factories there.
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
3,157
15
38
Re: RE: Nova Scotia may turn Orange

Andem said:
... nor do they have any grasp of how to handle a budget; they refuse to look at a situation in the long term.

I'll repeat. If it weren't for Rae's deficit spending Ontario would have have experienced 3 years of full recession. Under Rae Ontario came out way ahead when you consider what it would have been like if Rae had decided to balance the budget instead of running a defict. What you say may be the common perception but it isn't the reality. Including the Rae years, which in reality DO NOT require an apology, the NDP fiscal record stands up against any of the other two.
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
3,157
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38
Toro said:
...
Besides, though Rae got it wrong during the first half of his term...

good post, but right there is where you and I differ in opinion. I don't think what Rae did was a mistake. For example, even leaving out the ooky spooky "stimulative" effect of which Keynesian critics make more of an issue than Keynes ever did, in the first year alone without the provincial government's deficit spending Ontario would have seen a collapse in the economy of -7.26% instead of the -3.85% it realized.

Rae propped up the economy during one of the most serious economic downturns in Ontario's history.

btw that -7.26% is only the additional deficit, excluding the -$3,209M baseline he inherited. If he had balanced the books by holding spending to available revenues (ignoring the fact spending itself proportionally adds to revenues) the figure would work out to -8.72%. ouch!
 

athabaska

Electoral Member
Dec 26, 2005
313
0
16
Rae was a disaster for Ontario. He was alo a disaster for the NDP. Any NDPer who excuses away the guy's legacy is living in a closed ideological bubble.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
RE: Nova Scotia may turn

We will elect an NDP government in Nova Scotia this week, this will inspire a popular uprising of the people which will sweep accross the country and crush the neo-con pricks, Alberta will be nationalized and Ralph Klien and Preston Manning will be hung, maybe.