Not too much coming out of Afghanistan

Murphy

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Apr 12, 2013
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I know if you and I were in a room, I'd be the only adult.

The blast would have acted in several ways. First, It would have compressed the air in the cave and tunnels. That would have affected the upper area. Even with adequate ventilation, the air moving through it would have created damage, debris and areas of intense pressure. In certain areas it would have been so violent that anything soft would have been torn apart. Ears would pop, soft tissue damage would have occurred.

Second, the concussion would have acted on the land itself. Depending on where the bomb detonated in relation to the tunnels, upper and mid levels would have collapsed and the concussion would have killed anyone in those areas.

Third, anything flammable or explosive that was exposed may have exploded or caught fire. That would rob the areas below of oxygen. Like a mine collapse. The amount of dust moving around would have choked a number of people as well.

It is unlikely that it would have damaged or destroyed to the bottom, but damage would be significant. Many people would have died.

You don't have to take out the entire structure. Just select parts. Explosives was my business in the military. The reason the MOAB was selected was, in large measure, because of the overwhelming concussion that would have damaged or destroyed a good portion of what was inside. It will be necessary to crawl the area - if it is safe - to fully determine the total extent of the damage.

That is why the body count will increase.
 

tay

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And the concussion would have slammed people up against rocks and walls within the stronger caves.

We may never know the total number of dead, but in the article I posted above, the locals said that at times there were a few hundred in the area of the caves........
 

MHz

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The 'butterfly effect on the chest cavity when in close proximity to the detonation of high explosive it turn all the organs into 'jelly'. Hitting the wall at speed is a bonus I suppose as those injuries would eventually cause their death anyway.
What happens when that concussion hits a blast door that would have most of the cave in behind it?
Does a coffee cup jiggle but remain upright?

With a bunker buster embedding itself into the rock before exploding would that not extend the damage past the blast doors that no longer function as designed? Mini earthquake if you will.

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And the concussion would have slammed people up against rocks and walls within the stronger caves.

We may never know the total number of dead, but in the article I posted above, the locals said that at times there were a few hundred in the area of the caves........
Turn a few corners and the sound would diminish. An air blast isn't going to create an earthquake. One of the traits of the air/fuel type is it creates a lot of heat so along with the damages from the air when the shock-wave goes through it so anything that will ignite at 500F does so and that is why car tires within a blast zone are the first things to catch fire rather than the last. Gas tanks explode after the black smoke is rising. Most combustible things like paint on a car will be intact on one side but missing on the other side if the fire is a brief one.
The pictures of the assassination in Beirut in 2005 are the first ones where an HE explosion fro above was used to simulate a truck bomb going off in a high security zone. The STL thingy the UN was supposed to have never happened, it just sort of got lost I guess. Still the incident and investigation has lots of photos and similar explosions leave similar traces. Meaning, some of the car bombs might be hits from an anti-tank weapon that targets a specific car that is well within the inner parts of a security perimeter. That car is blamed for the explosion so the security perimeter isn't expanded to include all the high-ground that is in sight.

In the above attack it was bodies that were toast on one side and the suit wasn't even scorched on the other side type of thing. Being that close to a HE explosion the blast wave would have dissected him to a high degree. Anything but that happened in fact.

Several car bombs in Syria could be shown to be missile strikes instead based on timing and damage, or lack of if the UN inspectors are within sight. The double tap at a University should be investigated as a war crime as the 2nd explosion was directed at the people who were acting as medics to the victims of the first explosion.

There is one vid of a car being blasted way up into the air and just before gravity takes possession the gas tank explodes. I look at the whole car was above the explosion so a bomb coming in at a high angle of attack would explode between the car and the road and since the road isn't going anywhere the car is launched upward 100 ft (according to the vid that is about it).

At a (war-crimes) trial these days the charges would be based what vid is available that makes a guilty plea the only sane one and ratting out all the ones above you rather than below is the type of deal that lets you serve a short time rather than a long time.

[youtube]rYr7I4gOSXk[/youtube]
 

Murphy

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Apr 12, 2013
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Thanks for your learned opinion. They could have used you at the Pentagon when the drop was being planned. :roll:

You run down Trump, calling him an idiot, and then you post stuff like this. With your vast knowledge, you should beworking at the Pentagon. Your job would be explaining what the military people don't know. The Jews probably tricked the US into using a MOAB. :roll:

Is it any wonder everyone thinks you're a moron?
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Mar 18, 2013
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Thanks for your learned opinion. They could have used you at the Pentagon when the drop was being planned. :roll:

You run down Trump, calling him an idiot, and then you post stuff like this. With your vast knowledge, you should beworking at the Pentagon. Your job would be explaining what the military people don't know. The Jews probably tricked the US into using a MOAB. :roll:

Is it any wonder everyone thinks you're a moron?
I don't think he's a moron.

I think he's a lunatic.
 

Murphy

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Apr 12, 2013
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The only good thing about Mhz being a moron is that no one expects much of him. When he says or does stupid things, people aren't angry or even disappointed. They just ignore him.
 

MHz

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Add a bit of gypsy vision and suddenly nobody wants to play anymore.


Need I have to go on??




[youtube]e5rGhVhQaLk[/youtube]

We try to get him to stay on his meds, but there's only so much we can do.
Nothing to be done about you being a singular being but speaking in the plural as if that was something a 'normal' person does. 'Nay,Nat I say.'

Nothing to hear here. Moove along cattle.
[youtube]hpl5YaX7csQ[/youtube]
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Oh the wonders of war. Sounds like a bunch of guys on here get a proxy erection from Trump's big orgasm last night. Y'all be sickos.

I suggest you go be a negotiator on behalf of NATO. The Taliba and ISIS love dirt worshipping heathens far more than Christians and Jews.
 

MHz

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That's what they all say.Starts out os good clean fun and before you know it somebody gets hurt, sometimes real bad.'
[youtube]s5JdOnIUYhQ&index=1&list=PL0E08D89B0E2E04CC[/youtube]
 

tay

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May 20, 2012
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Media reports claim President Donald Trump let loose on his generals behind closed doors, blasting them royally for their startling failures in Afghanistan, America’s longest war.

The president has many faults and is a lousy judge of character. But he was absolutely right to read the riot act to the military brass for daring to ask for a very large troop and budget increase for the stalemated Afghan War that has cost $1 trillion to date.

Of course, the unfortunate generals are not really to blame. They have been forced by the last three presidents to fight a pointless war at the top of the world that lacks any strategy, reason or purpose – and with limited forces. But they can’t admit defeat by lightly-armed Muslim tribesmen.

The truth is, simply, that America blundered into the Afghan War under President George W. Bush who needed a target for revenge after the humiliating 9/11 attacks. Instead of blaming Saudi Arabia, a US protectorate which was clearly involved in the attacks, Bush went after remote but strategic Afghanistan and cooked up the Osama bin Laden bogeyman story.

Sixteen years later, the US is still chasing shadows in the Hindu Kush Mountains, rightly known to history as ‘Graveyard of Empires.’

The US invasion of Afghanistan was based on the unproven claim that anti-communist fighter Osama bin Laden was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. We have yet to see conclusive proof. What we have seen are phony documents and faked videos put out by bin Laden’s foes, the Afghan communists and their Northern Alliance drug-dealing allies.

As I’ve written in my books on South Asia, the so-called ‘terrorist training camps’ in Afghanistan were mostly bases for training anti-Indian Kashmiri liberation groups run by Pakistani intelligence. Claims by the right-wing US media that Afghanistan would become a jihadist base if the 9,800 US troops there now withdrew are nonsense. The 9/11 attacks were planned and mounted from Germany, Spain and Florida, not Afghanistan. They could have come from anywhere.

After sixteen years, the US military and its Afghan mercenaries troops have failed to defeat the Afghan Pashtun tribal resistance forces, Taliban. In fact, the Taliban alliance now controls at least half of Afghanistan and keeps US and government forces pinned down. The US installed ‘president,’ Ashraf Ghani, barely clings to power.

What keeps the US in control of parts of Afghanistan is the US Air Force and naval air power. US warplanes from Afghanistan, Qatar, and aircraft carriers keep a 24/7 combat air patrol over distant Afghanistan and can reply in minutes to attacks on US or Afghan ground units. No other nation could do this – or afford the immense cost.

Gasoline trucked into Afghanistan over the Khyber Pass from Karachi costs $400 per gallon delivered. The authoritative ‘Aviation Week’ magazine reports that keeping US warplanes on station over Iraq and Syria costs an astounding $600,000 per mission. It’s even more over Afghanistan.

But without 24/7 US airpower, US forces in Afghanistan would be soon isolated, then driven out. This is just what happened to the British and Soviets, dooming their efforts to crush the independence-loving Pashtun, Afghanistan’s largest ethnic group.

Bereft of new ideas, the US keeps repeating its mistakes in Afghanistan: colluding with the worst, most corrupt elements of Afghan society; condoning torture and murder; relying on the big, drug dealing tribal chiefs.

The UN reports that opium (the base for heroin) exports doubled last year. The sputtering Afghan economy runs on opium and hashish.

The United States is now the proud owner of the world’s leading producer of opium and morphine base. If the drug trade is ever cut off, the government in Kabul and its warlords will collapse. Ironically, when Taliban ruled Afghanistan before 9/11, the drug trade was almost wiped out. But you will never read this in the tame US media.

Now America’s imperial generals are asking Trump for 4,000 more troops. A basic law of military science is concentration of force. Penny packets of troops are a fool’s strategy. The main function of US troops in Afghanistan is to protect the strategic Bagram and Kandahar air bases and US installations in Kabul.

Now, hard right Republicans are pushing a daft proposal to contract the Afghan War to a US-paid mercenary army led by an imperial viceroy in Kabul. Shades of Queen Victoria. Break out the pith helmets.

Trump has proposed pressuring Pakistan, India and China to end the war. What an absurd idea. For Pakistan, Afghanistan is its blood brother and strategic hinterland. China plans to turn mineral-rich Afghanistan into a Tibet-style protectorate. India wants to outflank Pakistan by taking over Afghanistan. India and China are in a growing military confrontation in the Himalayas.

Trump had better come up with a better idea. My solution to the 17-year war: emulate the example of the courageous Soviet leader, Mikhail Gorbachev. He pronounced his Afghan War unwinnable, told his angry generals to shut up, and ordered the Red Army out of the war in Afghanistan

https://ericmargolis.com/2017/08/time-to-end-the-lost-afghan-war/
 

tay

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May 20, 2012
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President Trump, searching for a reason to keep the United States in Afghanistan after 16 years of war, has latched on to a prospect that tantalized previous administrations: Afghanistan’s vast mineral wealth, which his advisers and Afghan officials have told him could be profitably extracted by Western companies.

Mr. Trump has discussed the country’s mineral deposits with President Ashraf Ghani, who promoted mining as an economic opportunity in one of their first conversations. Mr. Trump, who is deeply skeptical about sending more American troops to Afghanistan, has suggested that this could be one justification for the United States to stay engaged in the country.

To explore the possibilities, the White House is considering sending an envoy to Afghanistan to meet with mining officials. Last week, as the White House fell into an increasingly fractious debate over Afghanistan policy, three of Mr. Trump’s senior aides met with a chemical executive, Michael N. Silver, to discuss the potential for extracting rare-earth minerals. Mr. Silver’s firm, American Elements, specializes in these minerals, which are used in a range of high-tech products.

Stephen A. Feinberg, a billionaire financier who is informally advising Mr. Trump on Afghanistan, is also looking into ways to exploit the country’s minerals, according to a person who has briefed him. Mr. Feinberg owns a large military contracting firm, DynCorp International, which could play a role in guarding mines — a major concern, given that some of Afghanistan’s richest deposits are in areas controlled by the Taliban

In 2010, American officials estimated that Afghanistan had untapped mineral deposits worth nearly $1 trillion, an estimate that was widely disputed at the time and has certainly fallen since, given the eroding price of commodities. But the $1 trillion figure is circulating again inside the White House, according to officials, who said it had caught the attention of Mr. Trump.

The lure of Afghanistan as a war-torn Klondike is well established: In 2006, the George W. Bush administration conducted aerial surveys of the country to map its mineral resources. Under President Barack Obama, the Pentagon set up a task force to try to build a mining industry in Afghanistan — a challenge that was stymied by rampant corruption, as well as security problems and the lack of roads, bridges or railroads.

None of these hurdles has been removed in the last eight years, according to former officials, and some have worsened. They warn that the Trump administration is fooling itself if it believes that extracting minerals is a panacea for Afghanistan’s myriad ills.

“It would be dangerous to use the potential for resource exploitation as a selling point for military engagement,” said Laurel Miller, a senior analyst at RAND who served until last month as the State Department’s special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan.


The barriers to entry are really quite considerable, and that kind of argument could fuel suspicion about America’s real intentions in Afghanistan.”

But for Mr. Trump, as a businessman, it is arguably the only appealing thing about Afghanistan. Officials said he viewed mining as a “win-win” that could boost that country’s economy, generate jobs for Americans and give the United States a valuable new beachhead in the market for rare-earth minerals, which has been all but monopolized by China.

China already has a $3 billion contract to develop a copper mine about 25 miles southeast of the Afghan capital, Kabul. Officials said Mr. Trump was determined not to spend American lives and treasure in Afghanistan only to watch China lock up its rare-earth deposits, which are used to make products from wind turbines to computer chips.

Mr. Silver, the chemical executive, may head an effort to maximize the rights for American companies to extract these minerals, according to a senior official.

Mr. Trump’s interest also reflects how his military advisers have struggled to present him with other persuasive reasons to send troops to the country, where the United States has been at war since 2001.

Worried that Mr. Trump will be locked into policies that did not work for the last two presidents, Mr. Bannon and the president’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, have brought in outside voices, including Mr. Feinberg and Erik D. Prince, a founder of the private security firm Blackwater International. Both have urged using more private contractors and giving the C.I.A. an oversight role in the conflict.

In addition, Mr. Feinberg has reached out to people involved in the Obama administration’s effort to build Afghanistan’s mining industry. Some warned him that the prospects for a profitable business are worse now than in 2009, given the decline in commodities prices and the deteriorating security in areas where the deposits are believed to lie.

Afghanistan’s deposits of copper and iron ore are trading at about a third of their 2010 prices. Most of the undiscovered deposits of rare-earth minerals are believed to be in Helmand Province, large parts of which are controlled by the Taliban.

“There are undoubtedly minerals to be exploited in Afghanistan, which could help provide economic stability to the country in the future,” said Daniel F. Feldman, a former special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan. “But given all the obstacles, it could be many years before mining yields dividends for the Afghan people.”

One advantage is that the Trump administration would have a willing partner in the Afghan government. During the Obama administration, President Ghani resisted the rapid development of the mining industry, largely because he worried about the threat of widespread corruption that would come with it.

But as soon as Mr. Trump was elected, Mr. Ghani reversed his position, contacting the Trump team and promoting Afghanistan’s mineral wealth. He realized that Mr. Trump would be intrigued by the commercial possibilities, officials said.
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Mr. Trump has said little publicly about Afghanistan since being elected. But his thinking about what the United States should reap for its military efforts was made clear in another context soon after his inauguration. Speaking to employees of the C.I.A., the president said the United States had erred in withdrawing troops from Iraq without holding on to its oil.

https://www.nytimes.com/by/james-risen