No Other Way

Cliffy

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Nov 19, 2008
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"For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.

When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.

For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known." (1 Corinthians 13:9-12 NIV)

Childlike is realizing the Truth deficit in my life and pursuing Him.
Paul was a charlatan. You should try stepping out of your box sometime Motar. You would be amazed at what wonders you are missing in there.
 

Ludlow

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"For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.

When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.

For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known." (1 Corinthians 13:9-12 NIV)

Childlike is realizing the Truth deficit in my life and pursuing Him.
Always quoting Saul
 

Motar

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Jun 18, 2013
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Childlike is realizing the Truth deficit in my life and pursuing Him.

One of Saul's/Paul's contemporaries experienced such a childlikeness in the presence of Truth:

"Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. He came to Jesus at night and said, 'Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.” (John 3:1-2 NIV)
 

Motar

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Motar. Do you follow Jesus, or do you follow Saul?

"Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?

I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.)

For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power." (1 Corinthians 1:13-17 NIV)
 

Dexter Sinister

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Motar, how about you count the number of times you cite yourself and comment favourably on your own posts, and think about what that might mean about who you are. Your thread title gives it away, there's no other way but yours because you've got a divinely granted lock on what's true and there's no possibility that you could be wrong. Except that I'm convinced you are, and not just a little, but stunningly, egregiously wrong, and the weight of evidence is with me. Your evidence consists entirely of one very old text from a credulous and superstitious pre-scientific and largely pre-literate age, and anecdotal interpretations of various emotional states. Selfsame is just as certain as you are, of very different claims based on a very different text, but the same emotional states. Does that tell you anything?
 
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Ludlow

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Motar, how about you count the number of times you cite yourself and comment favourably on your own posts, and think about what that might mean about who you are. Your thread title gives it away, there's no other way but yours because you've got a divinely granted lock on what's true and there's no possibility that you could be wrong. Except that I'm convinced you are, and not just a little, but stunningly, egregiously wrong, and the weight of evidence is with me. Your evidence consists entirely of one very old text from a credulous and superstitious pre-scientific and largely pre-literate age, and anecdotal interpretations of various emotional states. Selfsame is just as certain as you are, of very different claims based on a very different text, but the same emotional states. Does that tell you anything?
Socrates knew that his students had reached a point where they could finally learn when they could admit that they did not know. None of us know, but we may think we know. Religion fosters certainty. Difficult to break through that stone wall.
 

Dexter Sinister

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Yeah, all knowledge but the trivial is provisional to some degree, though it also seems worth pointing out that what's considered trivial changes as knowledge advances. It's now trivially true that the earth moves, for instance, but it's not very long ago that Galileo was punished pretty severely for making that claim.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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Yeah, all knowledge but the trivial is provisional to some degree, though it also seems worth pointing out that what's considered trivial changes as knowledge advances. It's now trivially true that the earth moves, for instance, but it's not very long ago that Galileo was punished pretty severely for making that claim.
but.... but.... flat Earthers. They are just as convinced that you are wrong. Well, I try to keep an open mind but somethings just don't jive.
I'm thinking it about time for my annual mental enema - spring cleaning of the skeletons in my closet. Maybe that will clear my head.
 

Motar

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Socrates knew that his students had reached a point where they could finally learn when they could admit that they did not know. None of us know, but we may think we know. Religion fosters certainty. Difficult to break through that stone wall.

Agree, LL.

Truth is humbling. The more we understand, the more we realize how little we understand.

Religion is a box. Reasoned faith is a doorway to the Truth.
 

Motar

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"Reasoned faith" is an oxymoron.

"By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, even though God had said to him, 'It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.'

Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead, and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death." (Hebrews 11:17-19 NIV)
 

Tecumsehsbones

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"By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, even though God had said to him, 'It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.'

Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead, and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death." (Hebrews 11:17-19 NIV)
Based on what evidence or train of reasoning did Abraham "reason" Gawd could raise the dead?
 

Motar

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Based on what evidence or train of reasoning did Abraham "reason" Gawd could raise the dead?

Based on Isaac, TB.

"Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, 'So shall your offspring be.'

Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead—since he was about a hundred years old—and that Sarah’s womb was also dead." (Romans 4:18-19 NIV)
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Based on Isaac, TB.

"Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, 'So shall your offspring be.'

Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead—since he was about a hundred years old—and that Sarah’s womb was also dead." (Romans 4:18-19 NIV)
So the whole Abraham/Isaac filicide thing was a scam? Abe knew the game was rigged?

Some sacrifice.
 

Motar

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So the whole Abraham/Isaac filicide thing was a scam? Abe knew the game was rigged? Some sacrifice.

Like many of his contemporaries, Abraham's misplaced faith and hope were in his offspring. Through Isaac, Abraham's Faith and Hope were replaced.

In what or whom do you currently trust or hope, TB?