Nice American Article: US vs. Canada

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: Nice American Article

Ah, the Fraser Institute. You can read what they are suggesting and are safe in taking the opposite position every time.

They had an anniversary party or something a while back and the head idiot took credit for eliminating the deficit and said his next goal was to privatise health care. This was after the Romanow Report, huge influx of money, and the meeting of the provinces. It was really looking like the government was going to listen to the people and the people had overwhelmingly said they wanted public health care but they wanted it fixed.

Suddenly it's an issue again and Ralph Klein, premier of the richest province in Canada, is leading the charge to tear public health care apart.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: Nice American Article

Ah, the Fraser Institute. You can read what they are suggesting and are safe in taking the opposite position every time.

They had an anniversary party or something a while back and the head idiot took credit for eliminating the deficit and said his next goal was to privatise health care. This was after the Romanow Report, huge influx of money, and the meeting of the provinces. It was really looking like the government was going to listen to the people and the people had overwhelmingly said they wanted public health care but they wanted it fixed.

Suddenly it's an issue again and Ralph Klein, premier of the richest province in Canada, is leading the charge to tear public health care apart.
 

tibear

Electoral Member
Jan 25, 2005
854
0
16
RB,

Do you really believe we don't have two-tier health care today??

The middle class that can't afford it, don't have any dental or vision coverage. Ever have a tooth ache and tell me that it isn't a health issue?? How about not being able to see, surely that's health care. However, our public health care doesn't cover these situations.

As well, your going to tell me that the rich don't already "jump the queue". They may not jump it in Canada, but a short trip across the boarder gets them all of the finest health care they can afford.

Those who claim the Liberals are stopping two-tier health care are living with their eye's closed.
 

tibear

Electoral Member
Jan 25, 2005
854
0
16
RB,

Do you really believe we don't have two-tier health care today??

The middle class that can't afford it, don't have any dental or vision coverage. Ever have a tooth ache and tell me that it isn't a health issue?? How about not being able to see, surely that's health care. However, our public health care doesn't cover these situations.

As well, your going to tell me that the rich don't already "jump the queue". They may not jump it in Canada, but a short trip across the boarder gets them all of the finest health care they can afford.

Those who claim the Liberals are stopping two-tier health care are living with their eye's closed.
 

tibear

Electoral Member
Jan 25, 2005
854
0
16
RB,

Do you really believe we don't have two-tier health care today??

The middle class that can't afford it, don't have any dental or vision coverage. Ever have a tooth ache and tell me that it isn't a health issue?? How about not being able to see, surely that's health care. However, our public health care doesn't cover these situations.

As well, your going to tell me that the rich don't already "jump the queue". They may not jump it in Canada, but a short trip across the boarder gets them all of the finest health care they can afford.

Those who claim the Liberals are stopping two-tier health care are living with their eye's closed.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: Nice American Article

I really don;t give a rat's ass whether the rich go to the US for their titty jobs or not, tibear. I just don't want them bringing the US system to Canada and I'm sick and tired of their lies and bullshit.

Speaking as somebody with only two of my own teeth and glasses, I do think that dental and eye-care should be covered. The more serious things need to be dealt with first.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: Nice American Article

I really don;t give a rat's ass whether the rich go to the US for their titty jobs or not, tibear. I just don't want them bringing the US system to Canada and I'm sick and tired of their lies and bullshit.

Speaking as somebody with only two of my own teeth and glasses, I do think that dental and eye-care should be covered. The more serious things need to be dealt with first.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: Nice American Article

I really don;t give a rat's ass whether the rich go to the US for their titty jobs or not, tibear. I just don't want them bringing the US system to Canada and I'm sick and tired of their lies and bullshit.

Speaking as somebody with only two of my own teeth and glasses, I do think that dental and eye-care should be covered. The more serious things need to be dealt with first.
 

tibear

Electoral Member
Jan 25, 2005
854
0
16
RB,

I'm not talking about simple plastic surgery.

How about people having to wait 2 months for MRI's and simply driving across the boarder and getting an MRI that afternoon and bringing it back to their doctor the next day.

People with cancer having to wait to see a specialist and driving down to the Mayo clinic and getting in immediately.

People having to wait up to 2 years for knee/hip replacement surgeries, getting them within 2 weeks by going to the US.

Shall I continue??
 

tibear

Electoral Member
Jan 25, 2005
854
0
16
RB,

I'm not talking about simple plastic surgery.

How about people having to wait 2 months for MRI's and simply driving across the boarder and getting an MRI that afternoon and bringing it back to their doctor the next day.

People with cancer having to wait to see a specialist and driving down to the Mayo clinic and getting in immediately.

People having to wait up to 2 years for knee/hip replacement surgeries, getting them within 2 weeks by going to the US.

Shall I continue??
 

tibear

Electoral Member
Jan 25, 2005
854
0
16
RB,

I'm not talking about simple plastic surgery.

How about people having to wait 2 months for MRI's and simply driving across the boarder and getting an MRI that afternoon and bringing it back to their doctor the next day.

People with cancer having to wait to see a specialist and driving down to the Mayo clinic and getting in immediately.

People having to wait up to 2 years for knee/hip replacement surgeries, getting them within 2 weeks by going to the US.

Shall I continue??
 

LadyC

Time Out
Sep 3, 2004
1,340
0
36
the left coast
I always hear this argument... look how long we have to wait in Canada... It's a crying shame... we can go to the US and have our surgeries within 2 weeks...

Tell me, what about the average American? How long do they have to wait? I'm not talking about the rich, I want to hear about the regular Joe who lives from paycheque to paycheque. Does he get his MRI the next day too?

Or is it only the rich patients that can expect timely care?

Our system needs work, sure, but I don't think we should scrap it for one that has its own problems.
 

LadyC

Time Out
Sep 3, 2004
1,340
0
36
the left coast
I always hear this argument... look how long we have to wait in Canada... It's a crying shame... we can go to the US and have our surgeries within 2 weeks...

Tell me, what about the average American? How long do they have to wait? I'm not talking about the rich, I want to hear about the regular Joe who lives from paycheque to paycheque. Does he get his MRI the next day too?

Or is it only the rich patients that can expect timely care?

Our system needs work, sure, but I don't think we should scrap it for one that has its own problems.
 

LadyC

Time Out
Sep 3, 2004
1,340
0
36
the left coast
I always hear this argument... look how long we have to wait in Canada... It's a crying shame... we can go to the US and have our surgeries within 2 weeks...

Tell me, what about the average American? How long do they have to wait? I'm not talking about the rich, I want to hear about the regular Joe who lives from paycheque to paycheque. Does he get his MRI the next day too?

Or is it only the rich patients that can expect timely care?

Our system needs work, sure, but I don't think we should scrap it for one that has its own problems.
 

no1important

Time Out
Jan 9, 2003
4,125
0
36
57
Vancouver
members.shaw.ca
I don't know where you got your info from but here in Louisiana it is basically the same rules, you can not use anything to strike a child with except your hand on their bum! And only parental discipline is allowed, Corporal Punishment is OUTLAWED in school! Any teacher or other school person is not allowed to administer Corporal Punishment! I don't know where you got the info about 2 by 4s being used but Louisiana and Texas it ain't. Lawsuits from parents have stopped the practise in Louisiana !
Tell that to the 18,672 students paddled last year in Louisiana. (La ranks #11 for most school paddling or assaults as they should be called)in America. http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/statesBanning.php scroll down.

I am afraid it is still legal in Louisiana. LA. REV. STAT. Sec. 17:233 and Sec. 20-2-732

Here is one of many examples. It is legal still in Louisiana and Texas and almost all southern states.

http://www.nospank.net/hos.htm http://www.stophitting.com/laws/legalInformation.php

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/news/st...ddlingsuit.html

Student Sues School For Paddling Her

By The Associated Press
(1/30/05 - SAN ANTONIO, TX) — When Jessica Serafin enrolled in a charter high school, her mother signed a form allowing administrators to paddle her as punishment.

But by the time a summer school principal paddled her last June, Serafin was already 18 and legally an adult. Now she's suing the School of Excellence in Education, San Antonio's largest charter school, alleging it was wrong for the principal to paddle an adult student without her consent. She says the beating she received for leaving campus to get breakfast was so severe she had to go to the emergency room.

The lawsuit was filed Jan. 10 in state district court. Last week, a notice was filed to move it to federal court. Although the lawsuit also alleges civil rights violations and negligence, a key element in the case is her age and the fact she didn't consent, her attorney said.

"This case is not about a crusade against corporal punishment," said Dan Hargove, her attorney. "It's not a crusade against charter schools. ... This case is about three adults holding down an adult female and beating her with a wooden paddle so bad that she ended up in the hospital."

The school's attorney, Jeff Gately, said the lawsuit "contains some blatant falsehoods." Gately said he and several school officials investigated the girl's account and found it to be without merit. The principals attorney declined to comment, saying he didn't want to try the case in the media.

The School of Excellence in Education advocates an "old-school" approach to discipline. Uniforms must be tucked in, girls can wear only one pair of earrings, and boys must open doors and pull out chairs for their female peers. It is the only public school in Bexar County that paddles students. Serafin says the summer school principal, who is a named defendant in the lawsuit, hit her three or four times. She said she tried to block one of the blows and the paddle "smashed her hand."

"I started screaming because I thought he had broke my hand," she said. Serafin said she went to the hospital because she could hardly walk after school and her hand was severely swollen. Her hand was put in a cast at the emergency room. State law allows parents to spank their minor children if the parent "reasonably believes the force is necessary to discipline the child or to safeguard or promote his welfare." But the law does not allow parents to use force on children who are 18 or older, Hargove said.

Hargove contends the school was acting on behalf of Serafin's parents, and therefore, shouldn't have been allowed to paddle an adult student. But St. Mary's University law professor Gerald Reamey said another part of the law allows educators to use corporal punishment without age restrictions to "further the educational purpose or maintain discipline." Attorney Philip Marzec, who represents local school districts, said it is difficult for a plaintiff to prevail against a school district in a paddling lawsuit because they generally are immune from allegations of negligence relating to corporal punishment. But districts can be sued for civil rights violations, Marzec said. The plaintiff would have to show that a school policy or sanctioned practise led to the violation.

(Copyright 2005 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

United States
Twenty-eight American states have banned corporal punishment in schools. The majority of states in which it is still legal are mainly in the southern US, particularly Mississippi, Arkansas, and Alabama. In some cases, children are struck three or more times on the buttocks with a paddle half-an-inch thick and over two feet long. The U.S. Dept. of Education reports that black students are paddled at 2 1/2 times the rate of white students.

http://www.repeal43.org/schools.html
 

no1important

Time Out
Jan 9, 2003
4,125
0
36
57
Vancouver
members.shaw.ca
I don't know where you got your info from but here in Louisiana it is basically the same rules, you can not use anything to strike a child with except your hand on their bum! And only parental discipline is allowed, Corporal Punishment is OUTLAWED in school! Any teacher or other school person is not allowed to administer Corporal Punishment! I don't know where you got the info about 2 by 4s being used but Louisiana and Texas it ain't. Lawsuits from parents have stopped the practise in Louisiana !
Tell that to the 18,672 students paddled last year in Louisiana. (La ranks #11 for most school paddling or assaults as they should be called)in America. http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/statesBanning.php scroll down.

I am afraid it is still legal in Louisiana. LA. REV. STAT. Sec. 17:233 and Sec. 20-2-732

Here is one of many examples. It is legal still in Louisiana and Texas and almost all southern states.

http://www.nospank.net/hos.htm http://www.stophitting.com/laws/legalInformation.php

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/news/st...ddlingsuit.html

Student Sues School For Paddling Her

By The Associated Press
(1/30/05 - SAN ANTONIO, TX) — When Jessica Serafin enrolled in a charter high school, her mother signed a form allowing administrators to paddle her as punishment.

But by the time a summer school principal paddled her last June, Serafin was already 18 and legally an adult. Now she's suing the School of Excellence in Education, San Antonio's largest charter school, alleging it was wrong for the principal to paddle an adult student without her consent. She says the beating she received for leaving campus to get breakfast was so severe she had to go to the emergency room.

The lawsuit was filed Jan. 10 in state district court. Last week, a notice was filed to move it to federal court. Although the lawsuit also alleges civil rights violations and negligence, a key element in the case is her age and the fact she didn't consent, her attorney said.

"This case is not about a crusade against corporal punishment," said Dan Hargove, her attorney. "It's not a crusade against charter schools. ... This case is about three adults holding down an adult female and beating her with a wooden paddle so bad that she ended up in the hospital."

The school's attorney, Jeff Gately, said the lawsuit "contains some blatant falsehoods." Gately said he and several school officials investigated the girl's account and found it to be without merit. The principals attorney declined to comment, saying he didn't want to try the case in the media.

The School of Excellence in Education advocates an "old-school" approach to discipline. Uniforms must be tucked in, girls can wear only one pair of earrings, and boys must open doors and pull out chairs for their female peers. It is the only public school in Bexar County that paddles students. Serafin says the summer school principal, who is a named defendant in the lawsuit, hit her three or four times. She said she tried to block one of the blows and the paddle "smashed her hand."

"I started screaming because I thought he had broke my hand," she said. Serafin said she went to the hospital because she could hardly walk after school and her hand was severely swollen. Her hand was put in a cast at the emergency room. State law allows parents to spank their minor children if the parent "reasonably believes the force is necessary to discipline the child or to safeguard or promote his welfare." But the law does not allow parents to use force on children who are 18 or older, Hargove said.

Hargove contends the school was acting on behalf of Serafin's parents, and therefore, shouldn't have been allowed to paddle an adult student. But St. Mary's University law professor Gerald Reamey said another part of the law allows educators to use corporal punishment without age restrictions to "further the educational purpose or maintain discipline." Attorney Philip Marzec, who represents local school districts, said it is difficult for a plaintiff to prevail against a school district in a paddling lawsuit because they generally are immune from allegations of negligence relating to corporal punishment. But districts can be sued for civil rights violations, Marzec said. The plaintiff would have to show that a school policy or sanctioned practise led to the violation.

(Copyright 2005 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

United States
Twenty-eight American states have banned corporal punishment in schools. The majority of states in which it is still legal are mainly in the southern US, particularly Mississippi, Arkansas, and Alabama. In some cases, children are struck three or more times on the buttocks with a paddle half-an-inch thick and over two feet long. The U.S. Dept. of Education reports that black students are paddled at 2 1/2 times the rate of white students.

http://www.repeal43.org/schools.html
 

no1important

Time Out
Jan 9, 2003
4,125
0
36
57
Vancouver
members.shaw.ca
I don't know where you got your info from but here in Louisiana it is basically the same rules, you can not use anything to strike a child with except your hand on their bum! And only parental discipline is allowed, Corporal Punishment is OUTLAWED in school! Any teacher or other school person is not allowed to administer Corporal Punishment! I don't know where you got the info about 2 by 4s being used but Louisiana and Texas it ain't. Lawsuits from parents have stopped the practise in Louisiana !
Tell that to the 18,672 students paddled last year in Louisiana. (La ranks #11 for most school paddling or assaults as they should be called)in America. http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/statesBanning.php scroll down.

I am afraid it is still legal in Louisiana. LA. REV. STAT. Sec. 17:233 and Sec. 20-2-732

Here is one of many examples. It is legal still in Louisiana and Texas and almost all southern states.

http://www.nospank.net/hos.htm http://www.stophitting.com/laws/legalInformation.php

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/news/st...ddlingsuit.html

Student Sues School For Paddling Her

By The Associated Press
(1/30/05 - SAN ANTONIO, TX) — When Jessica Serafin enrolled in a charter high school, her mother signed a form allowing administrators to paddle her as punishment.

But by the time a summer school principal paddled her last June, Serafin was already 18 and legally an adult. Now she's suing the School of Excellence in Education, San Antonio's largest charter school, alleging it was wrong for the principal to paddle an adult student without her consent. She says the beating she received for leaving campus to get breakfast was so severe she had to go to the emergency room.

The lawsuit was filed Jan. 10 in state district court. Last week, a notice was filed to move it to federal court. Although the lawsuit also alleges civil rights violations and negligence, a key element in the case is her age and the fact she didn't consent, her attorney said.

"This case is not about a crusade against corporal punishment," said Dan Hargove, her attorney. "It's not a crusade against charter schools. ... This case is about three adults holding down an adult female and beating her with a wooden paddle so bad that she ended up in the hospital."

The school's attorney, Jeff Gately, said the lawsuit "contains some blatant falsehoods." Gately said he and several school officials investigated the girl's account and found it to be without merit. The principals attorney declined to comment, saying he didn't want to try the case in the media.

The School of Excellence in Education advocates an "old-school" approach to discipline. Uniforms must be tucked in, girls can wear only one pair of earrings, and boys must open doors and pull out chairs for their female peers. It is the only public school in Bexar County that paddles students. Serafin says the summer school principal, who is a named defendant in the lawsuit, hit her three or four times. She said she tried to block one of the blows and the paddle "smashed her hand."

"I started screaming because I thought he had broke my hand," she said. Serafin said she went to the hospital because she could hardly walk after school and her hand was severely swollen. Her hand was put in a cast at the emergency room. State law allows parents to spank their minor children if the parent "reasonably believes the force is necessary to discipline the child or to safeguard or promote his welfare." But the law does not allow parents to use force on children who are 18 or older, Hargove said.

Hargove contends the school was acting on behalf of Serafin's parents, and therefore, shouldn't have been allowed to paddle an adult student. But St. Mary's University law professor Gerald Reamey said another part of the law allows educators to use corporal punishment without age restrictions to "further the educational purpose or maintain discipline." Attorney Philip Marzec, who represents local school districts, said it is difficult for a plaintiff to prevail against a school district in a paddling lawsuit because they generally are immune from allegations of negligence relating to corporal punishment. But districts can be sued for civil rights violations, Marzec said. The plaintiff would have to show that a school policy or sanctioned practise led to the violation.

(Copyright 2005 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

United States
Twenty-eight American states have banned corporal punishment in schools. The majority of states in which it is still legal are mainly in the southern US, particularly Mississippi, Arkansas, and Alabama. In some cases, children are struck three or more times on the buttocks with a paddle half-an-inch thick and over two feet long. The U.S. Dept. of Education reports that black students are paddled at 2 1/2 times the rate of white students.

http://www.repeal43.org/schools.html