Nice American Article: US vs. Canada
- Thread starter Andem
- Start date
WulF-Krigan said:
Sorry for the confusion. By pure success, I mean successful by being successful. Not by having certain unfair advantages. Monopolies are not necessarily rich because they are successful, they are rich because they have an unfair advantage.
Unfortunately, the system we have now does not work fairly. The rich are very much profitting from the poor. That's why we are suffering wage erosion and an ever-widening gap between rich and poor.
At the same time that is happening, it is becoming ever harder for the poor to rise in the class system. They cannot afford the education to do so. In a world that is demanding ever more education, that is a serious problem. The right has consistently insisted on a market-based post-secondary education system though.
At the same they've been doing that they have eroded the teaching of soft (not job-related) skills in secondary schools and heavily criticised universities and intellectuals for their insistence on deeper thinking.
In essence, the far right has been promoting the dumbing down of society, encouraging people not to think, and insisting that everything has a cash value. The far right, as represented by Stephen Harper, Mike Harris, and Ralph Klein and their ilk in Canada is basically telling us to shut up and make them money, even while our own wages are eroded and our quality of life shrinks.
At the same time that is happening, it is becoming ever harder for the poor to rise in the class system. They cannot afford the education to do so. In a world that is demanding ever more education, that is a serious problem. The right has consistently insisted on a market-based post-secondary education system though.
At the same they've been doing that they have eroded the teaching of soft (not job-related) skills in secondary schools and heavily criticised universities and intellectuals for their insistence on deeper thinking.
In essence, the far right has been promoting the dumbing down of society, encouraging people not to think, and insisting that everything has a cash value. The far right, as represented by Stephen Harper, Mike Harris, and Ralph Klein and their ilk in Canada is basically telling us to shut up and make them money, even while our own wages are eroded and our quality of life shrinks.
That you would post such unsupported drivel is not new. That you believe it is not new.
How about supporting it with something other than conjecture, wishful thinking, delusions and "I hope it's true I hope it's true"? Any chance of that?
The leaders? on the BoD of this august centre for policy alternatives:
Judy Rebick, strident hard left feminist and unionist forever and a voice only the deaf can appreciate.
James Stafford, chief economist with the CAW whose mission in life is to prove that free trade is a bad thing except when it comes to the auto industry.
Hugh MacKenzie, once an enforcer for Steelworkers and later Minister of Labour Bob Rae's expensive experience at governing. He single handidly drove thousands of businesses out of Ontario with draconian laws.
So you see, it's not all doom and gloom as you would have us believe. Is it?[/quote]
How about supporting it with something other than conjecture, wishful thinking, delusions and "I hope it's true I hope it's true"? Any chance of that?
Pity they don't care about Canadian sovereignty isn't it. Part of the mandate is it? Or do they just have sufficient other concerns? What do you think? Take a look at this, you as an avowed socialist and NDP supporter should have more faith in your fellow man or whatever.
The leaders? on the BoD of this august centre for policy alternatives:
Judy Rebick, strident hard left feminist and unionist forever and a voice only the deaf can appreciate.
James Stafford, chief economist with the CAW whose mission in life is to prove that free trade is a bad thing except when it comes to the auto industry.
Hugh MacKenzie, once an enforcer for Steelworkers and later Minister of Labour Bob Rae's expensive experience at governing. He single handidly drove thousands of businesses out of Ontario with draconian laws.
So you see, it's not all doom and gloom as you would have us believe. Is it?[/quote]
Nice attack there, Grimy. Went for the personal, then tried to back it up by accusing me of what you were doing. Go play in the traffic.
Leaders upon becoming leaders have an amazing ability to gain self interest once thier position of power is secured. Look at the US's democratic party. A bunch of "liberals" who are more moderates than anything else...hell, some are conservatives (ala Mr. Liberman).
Back to the issue of economics...
Pure Success...I guess I would argue this doesn't often exist. And if your company makes millions I can almost garauntee it doesn't exist. Hell, I make the mid-fives for income and -I- exploit people. Not because I need to, but because most people don't realise I am exploiting them.
A landlord does not reveal his mortgage to his tenants. He sets thier rent to profit off them. How do you judge what a "fair" profit is? And when does it go from a fair profit to exploitation?
The middle class is shrinking in America. It sucks. Education is getting hammered. That sucks too. A dumb passive population sucks...unless you are rich.
I guess my outlook is I'll adapt. If I have to get rich to avoid being exploited...and that means exploiting others...so be it. At worst, it's the American way.
Back to the issue of economics...
Pure Success...I guess I would argue this doesn't often exist. And if your company makes millions I can almost garauntee it doesn't exist. Hell, I make the mid-fives for income and -I- exploit people. Not because I need to, but because most people don't realise I am exploiting them.
A landlord does not reveal his mortgage to his tenants. He sets thier rent to profit off them. How do you judge what a "fair" profit is? And when does it go from a fair profit to exploitation?
The middle class is shrinking in America. It sucks. Education is getting hammered. That sucks too. A dumb passive population sucks...unless you are rich.
I guess my outlook is I'll adapt. If I have to get rich to avoid being exploited...and that means exploiting others...so be it. At worst, it's the American way.
I think I'll stand by my word. There is fair success and there's unfair success. Monopolies have it unfairly while non-monopolies have it fair.
Sure a landlord will make a profit from his tenants. It's the only thing that makes sense. Why would you have people in a house that you own if they will in all likelyhood cost you some money?
Rich get richer, poor get poorer. It's been that way since the US's conception. It is, however, like that in much of the world. Especially the places which have adopted "american-style" "democracy". LOL.
I guess I'll use another example, the first of which comes to my mind. Since I'm looking at the Google Toolbar on my desktop, i'll use them.
Google has become successful because they developed an extremely helpful tool everyone uses. Because their tool was so helpful, they became partnered with Yahoo!
MSN wants to take some marketshare from Google with the new search engine they are allegedly developing. But how fair would it be if MSN (which is microsoft) plastered new windows versions with their own search toolbar and basically forced the average user (who doesnt know much about computers) to use MSN's system?
They would be using their unfair advantage to gain additional unfair advantages not only in it's niche, but in other markets as well.
If you don't buy the google example, let's look at Time Warner (AKA AOL Time Warner, Warner Bros, Time, Time Warner, etc.). They cover so many markets it's not funny. They have been allowed to merge with other equally-as-large corporations to increase their reach across markets and the globe.
Who was it that said we're following Karl Marx` predictions?
These corporations will just get larger and larger until it's impossible to compete. Every year it gets harder for startups.
Sure a landlord will make a profit from his tenants. It's the only thing that makes sense. Why would you have people in a house that you own if they will in all likelyhood cost you some money?
Rich get richer, poor get poorer. It's been that way since the US's conception. It is, however, like that in much of the world. Especially the places which have adopted "american-style" "democracy". LOL.
I guess I'll use another example, the first of which comes to my mind. Since I'm looking at the Google Toolbar on my desktop, i'll use them.
Google has become successful because they developed an extremely helpful tool everyone uses. Because their tool was so helpful, they became partnered with Yahoo!
MSN wants to take some marketshare from Google with the new search engine they are allegedly developing. But how fair would it be if MSN (which is microsoft) plastered new windows versions with their own search toolbar and basically forced the average user (who doesnt know much about computers) to use MSN's system?
They would be using their unfair advantage to gain additional unfair advantages not only in it's niche, but in other markets as well.
If you don't buy the google example, let's look at Time Warner (AKA AOL Time Warner, Warner Bros, Time, Time Warner, etc.). They cover so many markets it's not funny. They have been allowed to merge with other equally-as-large corporations to increase their reach across markets and the globe.
Who was it that said we're following Karl Marx` predictions?
These corporations will just get larger and larger until it's impossible to compete. Every year it gets harder for startups.
Google and Time Warner are luxories...in a luxory based ecology I see what you mean.
But a luxory based economy (1st world) is founded by taking advantage of survival economies (3rd world). In the proverbial trade of beads for land and all that. But I guess someone's always suffering.
But a luxory based economy (1st world) is founded by taking advantage of survival economies (3rd world). In the proverbial trade of beads for land and all that. But I guess someone's always suffering.
Not to mention an apparent arrogance from those who insist they know better, but seem unable to put it into words.
Posted By Sorbito:
Posted: Mon May 17, 2004 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: Nice American Article: US vs. Canada
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As one who was born and raised in Canada, then lived in California for a couple of decades and has returned to Canada, let me say this. California is a comfortable place to live only if you have lots of money. They don't give a poop about the well-being of their poor and sick citizens. Basically, they don't care if you die .
Yes, Canadian winters are harsh, but it's people care more about each other than just about money (generally speaking).
My experience with the healthcare system in Toronto is that it has been very good to me. Having had serious surgery here I can from experience say that I will never again be sucked into the myth California is. A similar operation there would have destroyed me financially. Our Canadian system means I have a life of dignity as a human-being, even if I don't have a lot of money. Think about it, think about your future in the worst possible scenario...Canada is better!
Posted: Mon May 17, 2004 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: Nice American Article: US vs. Canada
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As one who was born and raised in Canada, then lived in California for a couple of decades and has returned to Canada, let me say this. California is a comfortable place to live only if you have lots of money. They don't give a poop about the well-being of their poor and sick citizens. Basically, they don't care if you die .
Yes, Canadian winters are harsh, but it's people care more about each other than just about money (generally speaking).
My experience with the healthcare system in Toronto is that it has been very good to me. Having had serious surgery here I can from experience say that I will never again be sucked into the myth California is. A similar operation there would have destroyed me financially. Our Canadian system means I have a life of dignity as a human-being, even if I don't have a lot of money. Think about it, think about your future in the worst possible scenario...Canada is better!
Posted by Andem:
Posted: Mon May 17, 2004 7:31 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi sorbito!
It's good to hear it from someone who has actual experience in both places. God help you if you ever get sick while you're in the United States.
They always seem to call Canada a socialist country... I suppose the people that say this are quite naive about a lot of stuff. Just because we have a good public health system, doesn't mean we're socialists!
Anyways, good points.
Posted: Mon May 17, 2004 7:31 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi sorbito!
It's good to hear it from someone who has actual experience in both places. God help you if you ever get sick while you're in the United States.
They always seem to call Canada a socialist country... I suppose the people that say this are quite naive about a lot of stuff. Just because we have a good public health system, doesn't mean we're socialists!
Anyways, good points.
Posted by Numure:
Posted: Sat May 15, 2004 4:53 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The war on terrorism is the Americans war... We got draged into it... And it made us a target.. Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism. Though now, with saddam gone, Iraq is fertile grounds for terrorist... What an irony..
Posted: Sat May 15, 2004 4:53 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The war on terrorism is the Americans war... We got draged into it... And it made us a target.. Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism. Though now, with saddam gone, Iraq is fertile grounds for terrorist... What an irony..
This article is true.
We have leaned on socialism and the USA has leaned on capitalism. So we fell behind years ago. Its all thanks to liberals who force Canada into debt and discourage business transactions which help Canadians who work and live in this country. Don't listen to liberal propaganda
We have leaned on socialism and the USA has leaned on capitalism. So we fell behind years ago. Its all thanks to liberals who force Canada into debt and discourage business transactions which help Canadians who work and live in this country. Don't listen to liberal propaganda
"we fell behind years ago"
What are you referencing? It depends on what values you hold. A neo-conservative attitude only tries to help the small percentage of rich people. The fact is that large companies and multi-nationals are psycopathic in nature. They consistently attempt to make money and disregard all of their negative impacts on people, and the environment. In fact this barbaric and archaic industrial attitude is a marked trait for conservative governments (U.S.A, Alberta). The most pathetic part about these disillusioned people/governments is that they forget that they are fundamentally driven on the backs of the average person who is gouged and left powerless. The current social system ushered into Canada (which you obviously take for granted) via leftwing governments is at least more dynamic and progressive then our theocratic neighbours to the south. Just because we do not follow the American capitalist dogma does not make Canada a lesser nation to anyone other then money grubbing capitalists. Perhaps it makes for a richer and more egalitarian society.
Also you should get your facts straight. The liberals have actually posted a surplus for years now.
The politics in Alberta are beginning to emulate the U.S. which is frightening in itself. Perhaps all of the oil money is going to your head. Be careful, where will you be in 50 years when all the oil has been taken from the land? Then you will see what a conservative government really does to the average person.
PS I don't agree with the liberals but I think your statement underscores precisely what is wrong with modern society. A total disregard and dependence to the average worker.
PSS Just talk to a Cape Bretoner about conservatism and industrialism.
What are you referencing? It depends on what values you hold. A neo-conservative attitude only tries to help the small percentage of rich people. The fact is that large companies and multi-nationals are psycopathic in nature. They consistently attempt to make money and disregard all of their negative impacts on people, and the environment. In fact this barbaric and archaic industrial attitude is a marked trait for conservative governments (U.S.A, Alberta). The most pathetic part about these disillusioned people/governments is that they forget that they are fundamentally driven on the backs of the average person who is gouged and left powerless. The current social system ushered into Canada (which you obviously take for granted) via leftwing governments is at least more dynamic and progressive then our theocratic neighbours to the south. Just because we do not follow the American capitalist dogma does not make Canada a lesser nation to anyone other then money grubbing capitalists. Perhaps it makes for a richer and more egalitarian society.
Also you should get your facts straight. The liberals have actually posted a surplus for years now.
The politics in Alberta are beginning to emulate the U.S. which is frightening in itself. Perhaps all of the oil money is going to your head. Be careful, where will you be in 50 years when all the oil has been taken from the land? Then you will see what a conservative government really does to the average person.
PS I don't agree with the liberals but I think your statement underscores precisely what is wrong with modern society. A total disregard and dependence to the average worker.
PSS Just talk to a Cape Bretoner about conservatism and industrialism.
RE: Nice American Article
Have you seen the movie The Corporation, JORcon5? If not I highly recommend it.
Have you seen the movie The Corporation, JORcon5? If not I highly recommend it.
me neither. I am not rich put I would say middle class and comfortable. Still with buying clothes for a teen age girl and food for a teenage male I am not sure how long that will last.
I think it is just more "pro american" propaganda that the American government constantly feeds it people.(from the day they are born, I would say)
I guess if I was poor I would rather be in Canada as we do have a good safety net, for those who chose to use it.
America is more concerned about the "almighty dollar" and trying to change the world to its beliefs.
Canada actually looks after its citizens. Its not perfect but it is much better than what they have in America.
All it would take is one long hospital in the USA to make anyone poor again unless you are rich. There health plans are a joke. Even with coverage they still pay through the nose.
So yes I will take Canada's "social programs" over the American one.
Do lower income Americans get Baby Bonus(child tax credit) or an equivalent of GST cheques or access to world class health care (even with its problems)no.
America is slowly becoming a two class society rich and poor. And you will need "W"'s god to help you if you are poor in america.
Plus Canada welcomes and accepts people who are diferent(race, sexual orientation etc) unlike America, and its anti muslim, anti gay tirade they are on now.
I think it is just more "pro american" propaganda that the American government constantly feeds it people.(from the day they are born, I would say)
I guess if I was poor I would rather be in Canada as we do have a good safety net, for those who chose to use it.
America is more concerned about the "almighty dollar" and trying to change the world to its beliefs.
Canada actually looks after its citizens. Its not perfect but it is much better than what they have in America.
All it would take is one long hospital in the USA to make anyone poor again unless you are rich. There health plans are a joke. Even with coverage they still pay through the nose.
So yes I will take Canada's "social programs" over the American one.
Do lower income Americans get Baby Bonus(child tax credit) or an equivalent of GST cheques or access to world class health care (even with its problems)no.
America is slowly becoming a two class society rich and poor. And you will need "W"'s god to help you if you are poor in america.
Plus Canada welcomes and accepts people who are diferent(race, sexual orientation etc) unlike America, and its anti muslim, anti gay tirade they are on now.
Agreed.
What I truly think is sad, is that people from other countries see America as "The Perfect Place". Everyone would be comfortably rich, would have a job, a car, a house, a pool and a family. They don't see the "other side" as I like to call it.
They are cities in the US that are as poor some in Africa. You'll never see THAT on TV though, that's for sure.
There is such a hypocricy there. Corruption is at an all-time high.
Let me tell everyone this: If the people knew, what their beloved President did, I swear, there would be a revolution.
Oh, and that report? It REEKS of PRO-AMERICAN NON-SENSE.
What I truly think is sad, is that people from other countries see America as "The Perfect Place". Everyone would be comfortably rich, would have a job, a car, a house, a pool and a family. They don't see the "other side" as I like to call it.
They are cities in the US that are as poor some in Africa. You'll never see THAT on TV though, that's for sure.
There is such a hypocricy there. Corruption is at an all-time high.
Let me tell everyone this: If the people knew, what their beloved President did, I swear, there would be a revolution.
Oh, and that report? It REEKS of PRO-AMERICAN NON-SENSE.