NATO warned to start paying its bills

[tay]

Why doesn't the US simply cut spending on NATO to the 2% level?

Because of the Military industrial Complex.

Pretend war creates a lot of profit, just not as much as dropping bombs and shooting bullets off does. They want other countries to subsidize their defence contractors by stocking up on equipment they may never use. Of course if they don't use it, after 5 or more years they put out a bulletin stating that said equipment has become obsolete and it's time to buy new stuff......

 

[Curious Cdn]

Because of the Military industrial Complex.

Pretend war creates a lot of profit, just not as much as dropping bombs and shooting bullets off does. They want other countries to subsidize their defence contractors by stocking up on equipment they may never use. Of course if they don't use it, after 5 or more years they put out a bulletin stating that said equipment has become obsolete and it's time to buy new stuff......

That is how the Americans subsidize their economy.

It's worked, too for the most part.

 

[Remington1]

Canada benefit handsomely from wars. There is no reason we are not fulfilling our agreement to NATO. Ottawa needs to push the reset bottom and pay up. If Canada is able to pay billions to help China and India with their environmental issues (all whilst shipping coals by the ton to China)!! and resettling refugees at a cost of 1 Billion, which are all good things!! but on the other side of the coin, if I was Trump, I would tell Canada: " Yes, I've been watching and you do look really wonderful and kind, but pay the amount you agreed too".

 

[tay]

Canada benefit handsomely from wars. There is no reason we are not fulfilling our agreement to NATO. Ottawa needs to push the reset bottom and pay up. If Canada is able to pay billions to help China and India with their environmental issues (all whilst shipping coals by the ton to China)!! and resettling refugees at a cost of 1 Billion, which are all good things!! but on the other side of the coin, if I was Trump, I would tell Canada: " Yes, I've been watching and you do look really wonderful and kind, but pay the amount you agreed too".

Don't go getting all rebeler on us. We need details that show Canada is subsidizing these countries for their environmental plans.....

 

[EagleSmack]

Big balls don't seem to matter. Except for its nuclear capability the Russian military is pretty much a paper tiger. Its equipment is outmoded; its troops poorly trained; and it is being run on a shoestring. If even the Ukrainians can stand up to the Russians it really doesn't say much for their military potential.

Stand up? How?

They've lost the Crimea, they've all but lost Eastern Ukraine.

 

[petros]

He planning a war?

Somebody else is.

Stand up? How?

They've lost the Crimea, they've all but lost Eastern Ukraine.

The build up to take it back has already begun.

 

[EagleSmack]

The EU better step up

 

[Bar Sinister]

Stand up? How?

They've lost the Crimea, they've all but lost Eastern Ukraine.

Look on the map. Only a tiny section of Ukraine is contested. The original plan of the Russians separatists was to annex all of the territory bordering the Black Sea. They haven't come close to that even with the help of fake "freedom fighters."

 

[Curious Cdn]

I don't know who drew your map but Kiev has "moved to the West" a bit!

 

[Blackleaf]

Nato is the key to our stability – so pay for it

Telegraph View
19 February 2017
34 Comments

German Chancellor Angela Merkel walks with U.S. Vice President Mike Pence before their meeting at the 53rd Munich Security Conference in Munich, Germany, February 18, 2017. Credit: MICHAEL DALDER

The world must take note of what happened in Montenegro. It paid scant attention last October when reports surfaced of an attempted coup. All eyes were on the American election; Montenegro is small and hardly known. But we can now reveal that plans were laid for a bloody coup, which was designed to kill the prime minister and destabilise the country. The goal was to prevent this sovereign nation from joining Nato. According to intelligence sources, the puppet-master was Russia.

It all sounds familiar. In the last few chaotic years, Moscow has backed a separatist movement in Ukraine, propped up Bashar al-Assad in Syria, stands accused of murdering critics on foreign soil and is believed to have bankrolled opposition parties abroad. It is even alleged to have interfered in the US election.

So the job of the American team at the Security Conference in Munich has not been easy. After inheriting this mess from Barack Obama, Donald Trump seeks a new relationship with Russia, in recognition of what is clearly an unhappy situation in which Vladimir Putin is a key player.

But the Europeans fear this means capitulation to Moscow. Vice President Mike Pence assured them that Washington’s commitment to Nato is strong, that Russia must honour the 2015 Ukraine peace deal and that the West is bound together by common values. He also made a very good point about expenditure: if Europe wants a collective defence then it must pay for it.

Meeting the 2 per cent spending target is not a condition for Nato membership or protection. But the collective defence of freedom must be more than just an American policing operation. If Canada under Justin Trudeau imagines itself as the defender of liberalism, let it put its money where its mouth is.

Likewise, if Europe is so intent on integration then what is it doing to defend countries such as Montenegro? Several European countries spend less on defence than the budget of the New York Police Department.

Britain must meet its own obligations and take the case for Western resolve directly to the Trump administration. The stakes are high. In Munich, the Russian foreign minister spoke of a post-West order. The reality of that proposition may sadly be disorder and freedom for tyrants. Only Nato retains the power, and hopefully the will, to stand up for democracy and the rule of law.

Nato: Who Pays?

Nato is the key to our stability

 

[Machjo]

Nato is the key to our stability – so pay for it

Telegraph View
19 February 2017
34 Comments

German Chancellor Angela Merkel walks with U.S. Vice President Mike Pence before their meeting at the 53rd Munich Security Conference in Munich, Germany, February 18, 2017. Credit: MICHAEL DALDER

The world must take note of what happened in Montenegro. It paid scant attention last October when reports surfaced of an attempted coup. All eyes were on the American election; Montenegro is small and hardly known. But we can now reveal that plans were laid for a bloody coup, which was designed to kill the prime minister and destabilise the country. The goal was to prevent this sovereign nation from joining Nato. According to intelligence sources, the puppet-master was Russia.

It all sounds familiar. In the last few chaotic years, Moscow has backed a separatist movement in Ukraine, propped up Bashar al-Assad in Syria, stands accused of murdering critics on foreign soil and is believed to have bankrolled opposition parties abroad. It is even alleged to have interfered in the US election.

So the job of the American team at the Security Conference in Munich has not been easy. After inheriting this mess from Barack Obama, Donald Trump seeks a new relationship with Russia, in recognition of what is clearly an unhappy situation in which Vladimir Putin is a key player.

But the Europeans fear this means capitulation to Moscow. Vice President Mike Pence assured them that Washington’s commitment to Nato is strong, that Russia must honour the 2015 Ukraine peace deal and that the West is bound together by common values. He also made a very good point about expenditure: if Europe wants a collective defence then it must pay for it.

Meeting the 2 per cent spending target is not a condition for Nato membership or protection. But the collective defence of freedom must be more than just an American policing operation. If Canada under Justin Trudeau imagines itself as the defender of liberalism, let it put its money where its mouth is.

Likewise, if Europe is so intent on integration then what is it doing to defend countries such as Montenegro? Several European countries spend less on defence than the budget of the New York Police Department.

Britain must meet its own obligations and take the case for Western resolve directly to the Trump administration. The stakes are high. In Munich, the Russian foreign minister spoke of a post-West order. The reality of that proposition may sadly be disorder and freedom for tyrants. Only Nato retains the power, and hopefully the will, to stand up for democracy and the rule of law.

Nato: Who Pays?

Nato is the key to our stability

The first three on the list are debt-ridden, especially Greece. I don't know about the others.

 

[Blackleaf]

The first three on the list are debt-ridden, especially Greece. I don't know about the others.

And yet they still manage to spend more on defence than Canada does.

Even Albania, for long Europe's poorest country, spends more of its GDP on defence than Canada does.

 

[Machjo]

And yet they still manage to spend more on defence than Canada does.

Even Albania, for long Europe's poorest country, soebds more of its GDP on defence than Canada does.

And there you go. It's poor.

How about sustainable spending rather than splurging now and going bankrupt later?

 

[Blackleaf]

And there you go. It's poor.

How about sustainable spending rather than splurging now and going bankrupt later?

Albania is in NATO, and therefore is required to spend at least 2% of its GDP on defence. Therefore, rather than spending too much, Albania actually isn't spending enough and needs to spend MORE on defence.

This is what Trump and May have been saying.

 

[Machjo]

Albania is in NATO, and therefore is required to spend at least 2% of its GDP on defence. Therefore, rather than spending too much, Albania actually isn't spending enough and needs to spend MORE on defence.

This is what Trump and May have been saying.

The leaders of two of the most indebted countries. Unfortunately Trudeau is catching us up fast.

 

[Blackleaf]

The leaders of two of the most indebted countries. Unfortunately Trudeau is catching us up fast.

Japan, Ireland and Singapore are the three countries with the highest debt-to-GDP ratio. Britain and the USA aren't even in the Top 10.

 

[tay]

Donald Trump has announced that he will increase ‘defense’ spending by an unprecedented (and unwarranted) $54 billion over the next year.

This is in addition to the roughly $600 BILLION spent per year on military and defense infrastructure. This is also a conservative number, as many additional billions are spent on defense or security related programs.

Where does it all go?

No one really knows.

And why does the US feel it has to continue to outspend everyone?

These excessive levels – if we allow them to continue – will result in bankrupting NATO as member countries decide on their own infrastructure costs and safety nets to spending on Military Arms.

Members will simply declare that they can no longer afford to support Trump’s ridiculous overspending on military hardware and contracting.

And when that happens, he’ll have all the justification he needs to terminate relations with NATO countries, putting the world on full alert.

Assuming threats exist (as we’ve been told since the introduction of personal income tax back at the beginning of the 20th century) and they’re not just manufactured to ensure that the big spend on military continues, we’ll see ex-NATO members fall to bullying brought on by either the US, Russia or both.

There is an alternative: if the US were to pull its defense spending to be more in line with the rest of NATO as opposed to pushing NATO members to keeping upping the ante, we’d have trillions of dollars to spend on more important things.

Like saving the human race from ourselves.

 

[Ludlow]

NATO has always been a bit of a con game so far as the US is concerned. During the Cold War the US constantly bullied NATO members into spending more on defense than was really necessary. The result was the most massively armed alliance in world history. The less spent on the military the better. Military spending certainly does not help the economy unless foreigners can be duped into buying military equipment.

That's how you stimulate the economy dummah. Think of the thousands a jobs that were provided. Now shut it sap.

 

[tay]

Angela Merkel will reportedly ignore Donald Trump's attempts to extricate £300bn from Germany for what he deems to be owed contributions to Nato.

The US President is said to have had an “invoice” printed out outlining the sum estimated by his aides as covering Germany’s unpaid contributions for defence.

Said to be presented during private talks in Washington, the move has been met with criticism from German and Nato officials.

Mr Trump reportedly instructed aides to calculate how much German spending fell below two per cent over the past 12 years, then added interest.

Estimates suggest the total came to £300bn, with official figures citing the shortfall to be around £250bn plus £50bn in interest added on.

The Times quoted a German government minister as saying the move was “outrageous”.

The unnamed minister said: “The concept behind putting out such demands is to intimidate the other side, but the Chancellor took it calmly and will not respond to such provocations.”

And the paper quoted a source close to Mrs Merkel saying she has “ignored the provocation”.

The bill follows a disastrous meeting between the pair earlier this month, characterised by Mr Trump’s refusal to shake his peer’s hand.

Donald Trump printed out made-up £300bn Nato invoice and handed it to Angela Merkel | The Independent

 

[Angstrom]

NATO has only created a illusion of peace. It's incredible power only guarantees that other nations will simply pursue war under economic or cultural or other covert methods.