NATO & the Trump Factor

Walter

Walter

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Curious Cdn said:
Not true for Vietnam. They're doing better than ever, now that ALL of the foreigners are gone (for a time, anyway).
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Wherever the US has left troops behind after a war is won that country has prospered. If the US leaves the country fails.

justlooking said:
Just sad to read this, a travel warning for the UK.




Americans in UK warned to 'keep a low profile' during Trump's visit to Britain, over fears of violent protests


  • U.S. President Donald Trump will visit Britain from Thursday to Saturday
  • Tens of thousands are expected to take to streets to protest against his policies
  • U.S. Embassy warned Americans on the UK these protests could turn violent
  • They advised 'keeping a low profile' and 'being aware of your surroundings'
Americans in UK warned to 'keep a low profile' during Trump's visit | Daily Mail Online
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Lefties love violence, hence the warning.
 
H

Hoid

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So the economic success of Japan and Germany is because of American military occupation ? Seems unlikely.

BTW righties promote hatred. Hence the warning
 
EagleSmack

EagleSmack

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NZDoug said:
I think that assisting and absorbing refugees from war torn countries that usa has destroyed is a military budget.
You break it, you fix it isnt in Ameras sense of morals.
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When do you think Canada will go back and fix Libya?

Hoid said:
So the economic success of Japan and Germany is because of American military occupation ? Seems unlikely.
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As a matter of fact... yes.
 
C

Curious Cdn

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EagleSmack said:
When do you think Canada will go back and fix Libya?



As a matter of fact... yes.
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The modern GOP proto-Nazis would never go along with such Socialist reconstruction schemes, these days. Not a chance in hell.

They were, literally, Keynsian.
 
Bar Sinister

Bar Sinister

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Curious Cdn said:
Russia wants her old empire back

So does China. Now THAT's a can of worms!
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China? Exactly what empire did China ever have, outside of China itself? Or are you talking about Taiwan?

Curious Cdn said:
They brought lots more dough with them the second time around.

btw, The Dough Boys had to return because Woodrow Wilson did not believe in taking the measures to prevent that from happening. He was a LIE-beral.
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Woodrow Wilson? What did he have to do with the rise of Hitler and World War II, other than the fact he tried to create an organization to prevent a second war?

Twin_Moose said:
Of course Russia wants these countries to stay within their sphere of influence, but what do these independent countries want? Russia doesn't want to invade them that would bring the UN in to the situation, but if they can keep the countries unstable (see Georgia, Ukraine) then they stay within Russia's realm and away from joining NATO freely.
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Russia's meddling is likely to have the opposite effect. It is more likely to push these nations into closer contact with the West.
 
C

Curious Cdn

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Bar Sinister said:
China? Exactly what empire did China ever have, outside of China itself? Or are you talking about Taiwan?
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I'm talking about China and Southeast Asia. China herself has already made the move to take control of the South China Sea and they, themselves claim it as an historic property of China. They have hardly left any coastal access to Indonesia, Vietnam, The Phillipines. I suppose if you pressed the point, Korea and Japan are also ancient claims of the Chinese, although the Japanese sent them packing on a few occasions.

http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/ea...proposed-for-chinas-claims-in-south-china-sea

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_disputes_in_the_South_China_Sea

By the way, a substantial part of what is now Russia was also tributary to a Chinese Empire that goes six thousand years.

Bar Sinister said:
Woodrow Wilson? What did he have to do with the rise of Hitler and World War II, other than the fact he tried to create an organization to prevent a second war?
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Wilson was a peacenik.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Points

In retrospect, what was needed at the end of WWI was a military occupation of Berlin ... which, by the way, is precisely what eventually happened 40 million dead later.
 
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Ocean Breeze

Ocean Breeze

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In a few hrs the summit begins.

words to Trump: :appreciate your allies. You don't have that many".

BBC reporting.

Wondering how much damage he will do .......as relations with him are a tad "reserved" at best.

He has made it clear that P His meeting with Putin will be th e easiest of the three he will be attending. ( other two being Nato, and Ms May)

With "friends" like Trump.........who needs enemies.??

For someone who has this pathological need t be liked /loved.........he has a strange way of being "likeable ".....to others. It is like he tests and tests others as if to have them keep proving their affection for him. Rather dysfunctional to say the least.
 
10larry

10larry

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Walter said:
Wherever the US has left troops behind after a war is won that country has prospered. If the US leaves the country fails.

Lefties love violence, hence the warning.
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Curious about battles won, the only conflict I can think of post ww2 where the u.s. emerged victoriuos was in kuwait when they pushed iraqi troops back home.
Oddly u.s. troops are still dealing with iraqis but on iraqi turf now...how long has it been?
U.S. invasion of syria produced so much friction with turkey that erdogan sought russias' defensive help, hardly a savvy strategy driving a nato ally to not only embrace but purchase mr. putins war toys.
 
pgs

pgs

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Twin_Moose said:
Tell Poland, Latvia, Georgia, Ukraine, etc. that Russia is no threat. Looks to me that Putin is trying to restore the old USSR policy on world influence for 2 reasons that I can see 1) Make Russia relevant in todays world by showing strength and influence and 2) create trade partners to circumvent sanctions put on Russia by the UN

Trump is in Trudeau's head ahead of the NATO meeting making optical excuses to not pay more on defense.

Trudeau set to extend Canada's leadership role in NATO's Latvia mission

The Liberal government plans to extend its NATO leadership role in Latvia for several years, CBC News has learned.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau will "deliver a strong message" of solidarity during his bilateral visit to the Baltic state, said several sources from Defence, Foreign Affairs and other government departments.
Canada's mission leadership role faces a self-imposed government deadline of spring 2019. It is now expected to continue for at least another three years.

Announcing the extension might serve the Liberals well in the current political climate.
Trudeau's statement on Canada's "key contribution" will be delivered just ahead of what's expected to be a contentious meeting of NATO leaders in Brussels July 11-12. U.S. President Donald Trump has already shaken things up in advance of the meeting by preemptively chastising allies who don't meet the alliance's defence spending targets.
Canada's 450 troops form the nucleus of a multinational battle group in Latvia that includes soldiers from Albania, Slovakia, Slovenia, the Czech Republic, Poland, Italy and Spain.
NATO military planners anticipate the deployment of battle groups in Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania — intended to stave off Russian incursions in the region — could last a decade and they have been quietly preparing for that possibility.

A message of solidarity

At the same time, Canada has been securing acknowledgements from its partner nations that they are prepared to stick around, said a confidential Department of Defence source.
Trudeau will address Canadian troops and soldiers from those other nations during his visit. He and Latvian Prime Minister Maris Kucinskis are expected to emphasize unity in the face of Russian interference in eastern Europe, including the ongoing war in Ukraine.
Canada has often been criticized for not meeting NATO's two per cent defence spending target and officials have been bracing for a Trump tirade, given the U.S. president's frequent, sometimes personal attacks on Trudeau.
The alliance summit in Brussels will be the first time the two men have met face-to-face since the acrimonious G7 summit in Charlevoix, Quebec last month.

At a rally this week in Great Falls, Montana, Trump delivered a clear message: "I'm going to tell NATO, 'You gotta start paying your bills. The United States is not going to take care of everything.'"
Justin Massie, a professor of political science at the Université du Québec à Montréal, said extending Canada's mission is a gesture that likely will be be lost on Trump.
"It's probably not going to satisfy President Trump, not whatsoever," Massie said. "President Trump has a very different view of NATO, a very much transactional view of NATO where he seeks money from allies in exchange for American security."
Canada spends approximately 1.29 per cent of its gross domestic product on defence — a far cry from NATO's two per cent goal.
Even under the Liberal government's new defence strategy, which will see a 70 per cent hike in allocations over the next few years, that ratio is only expected to reach 1.4 per cent of GDP.
Both the previous Conservative government and the current Liberal one have insisted that showing up with troops and equipment is just as important a measure as spending.
The Department of Defence argued in a recent report that Canada has little choice but to extend its presence in Latvia, which costs taxpayers $134 million per year.

Trump remains the wild card

The result of pulling out next year would be "closing doors, letting down old and new friends, wasting human and political capital, along with the political-military credibility Canada's commitment to the [enhanced forward presence] has generated," said the report by the Macdonald-Laurier Institute.
One of the authors, Joel Sokolsky, said the fallout of a withdrawal from Latvia in the current political climate would be harsh.
"It would reinforce the perception, which isn't quite correct, of Canada being (a) laggard," said Sokolsky, a professor at the Centre for International and Defence Policy at Queen's University in Kingston, Ont.
He said a decision to bail on a leadership role would not only damage the alliance but Canada-U.S.relations as well — relations which are already under severe strain because of the looming trade war and the Trump administration's imposition of tariffs.

The report warns, however, that the calculation could change — depending on how Trump handles the NATO summit.
Defence experts have raised the prospect of the U.S. pulling back militarily from Europe, a notion officials in Washington have attempted to downplay.
Even so, Trump could make decisions that would force Canada to re-evaluate its position.
"For Canada and Europe, the most worrisome possibility is U.S. disengagement — a spectre raised by President Trump's behaviour at the Singapore Summit with North Korea, where he offered to sacrifice U.S.-Korean military exercises while floating a general pull-back of U.S. Forces," said the report.
"If that happens along NATO's frontier with Russia, Canada would have to consider whether to recommit alongside European allies to show its faith in NATO — but without America's supporting presence. That, in itself, would raise questions about the very future of NATO."
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CBC News has learned ? How did that happen ? According to multiple sources , huh . Do we pay people to disregard their confidentiality agreements ?

Bar Sinister said:
Check the recent history of the Baltic states and Ukraine as well as that of the Caucasus. Russia did not want to let go of any of these regions, but it lacked the will and military strength to fight protracted wars in each of them. I suspect that is still the case. It costs money to fight wars and the Russian oligarchs have stolen most of it.
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Yes but that will change , as it has most places .
 
C

Curious Cdn

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pgs said:
CBC News has learned ? How did that happen ? According to multiple sources , huh . Do we pay people to disregard their confidentiality agreements ?


Yes but that will change , as it has most places .
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It has to. Potus is bonkers and intent on up-ending the stable world order, driven by his mental illness.
 
Ocean Breeze

Ocean Breeze

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Curious Cdn said:
It has to. Potus is bonkers and intent on up-ending the stable world order, driven by his mental illness.
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Indeed. There is concern as to what he will do at the NATO summit.

If Trump is so concerned about overpaying while others aren't paying enough..........then why doesn't he just decrease the US financial input. AND stop berating everyone like he does. His negative words are losing impact..ie: tat is just crazy trump again .....kind of thing.) It is just tedious and a turn off now.
an aside: but what has he done that has been smoothly successful and POSITIVE?? (that he has not sabotaged with his big mouth?)
 
H

Hoid

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Trump 101: accuse someone else of what you are accused of.

So Germany gets 90& of its energy from a new pipeline from Russia. And America is supposed to protect Germany.

WHATABOUTTHAT?

Poop Stain still shuckin and jivin

Germans are colluding with Putin

BBC news: Trump is totally controlled by Russia

looks like the gloves are coming off
 
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O

OpposingDigit

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As the U.S. economy continues to crumble, Trump is simply attempting to give a heads-up for the eventual reduction of military troops in Europe and the Korean Peninsula. The costs are too prohibitive as China takes its place upon the worlds stage.
 
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