NATO & the Trump Factor

OpposingDigit

Electoral Member
Aug 27, 2017
903
0
16
When Trump demands NATO spend more money, he means to say that they need to buy more American armaments. It is not because Trump wants them to enlarge their armies. Saudi Arabia can not be expected to buy all the armaments manufactured in America.

After the last missile strikes in Syria, nobody wants American missiles anymore because the S-400 can knock them down. India is the latest country to buy the Russian built S-400's rather then the U.S. missile defense systems.

The F-35 is an experiment and not a real plane.

The American Military Complex must have a zillion workers who are spending the 800 billion dollar budget and who will vote for Trump only if they remain employed.
 
Last edited:

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
37,070
8
36
F-35 has seen action since January of 2018.

Fortunately, not in a dog fight with something like a Sukhoi SU-57.

The new F-35 is tickety-boo at flying straight and level and launching stand-off weapons at distant targets.
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
8,252
19
38
Edmonton
Tell Poland, Latvia, Georgia, Ukraine, etc. that Russia is no threat. Looks to me that Putin is trying to restore the old USSR policy on world influence for 2 reasons that I can see 1) Make Russia relevant in todays world by showing strength and influence and 2) create trade partners to circumvent sanctions put on Russia by the UN

Trump is in Trudeau's head ahead of the NATO meeting making optical excuses to not pay more on defense.

Trudeau set to extend Canada's leadership role in NATO's Latvia mission

The Liberal government plans to extend its NATO leadership role in Latvia for several years, CBC News has learned.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau will "deliver a strong message" of solidarity during his bilateral visit to the Baltic state, said several sources from Defence, Foreign Affairs and other government departments.
Canada's mission leadership role faces a self-imposed government deadline of spring 2019. It is now expected to continue for at least another three years.

Announcing the extension might serve the Liberals well in the current political climate.
Trudeau's statement on Canada's "key contribution" will be delivered just ahead of what's expected to be a contentious meeting of NATO leaders in Brussels July 11-12. U.S. President Donald Trump has already shaken things up in advance of the meeting by preemptively chastising allies who don't meet the alliance's defence spending targets.
Canada's 450 troops form the nucleus of a multinational battle group in Latvia that includes soldiers from Albania, Slovakia, Slovenia, the Czech Republic, Poland, Italy and Spain.
NATO military planners anticipate the deployment of battle groups in Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania — intended to stave off Russian incursions in the region — could last a decade and they have been quietly preparing for that possibility.

A message of solidarity

At the same time, Canada has been securing acknowledgements from its partner nations that they are prepared to stick around, said a confidential Department of Defence source.
Trudeau will address Canadian troops and soldiers from those other nations during his visit. He and Latvian Prime Minister Maris Kucinskis are expected to emphasize unity in the face of Russian interference in eastern Europe, including the ongoing war in Ukraine.
Canada has often been criticized for not meeting NATO's two per cent defence spending target and officials have been bracing for a Trump tirade, given the U.S. president's frequent, sometimes personal attacks on Trudeau.
The alliance summit in Brussels will be the first time the two men have met face-to-face since the acrimonious G7 summit in Charlevoix, Quebec last month.

At a rally this week in Great Falls, Montana, Trump delivered a clear message: "I'm going to tell NATO, 'You gotta start paying your bills. The United States is not going to take care of everything.'"
Justin Massie, a professor of political science at the Université du Québec à Montréal, said extending Canada's mission is a gesture that likely will be be lost on Trump.
"It's probably not going to satisfy President Trump, not whatsoever," Massie said. "President Trump has a very different view of NATO, a very much transactional view of NATO where he seeks money from allies in exchange for American security."
Canada spends approximately 1.29 per cent of its gross domestic product on defence — a far cry from NATO's two per cent goal.
Even under the Liberal government's new defence strategy, which will see a 70 per cent hike in allocations over the next few years, that ratio is only expected to reach 1.4 per cent of GDP.
Both the previous Conservative government and the current Liberal one have insisted that showing up with troops and equipment is just as important a measure as spending.
The Department of Defence argued in a recent report that Canada has little choice but to extend its presence in Latvia, which costs taxpayers $134 million per year.

Trump remains the wild card

The result of pulling out next year would be "closing doors, letting down old and new friends, wasting human and political capital, along with the political-military credibility Canada's commitment to the [enhanced forward presence] has generated," said the report by the Macdonald-Laurier Institute.
One of the authors, Joel Sokolsky, said the fallout of a withdrawal from Latvia in the current political climate would be harsh.
"It would reinforce the perception, which isn't quite correct, of Canada being (a) laggard," said Sokolsky, a professor at the Centre for International and Defence Policy at Queen's University in Kingston, Ont.
He said a decision to bail on a leadership role would not only damage the alliance but Canada-U.S.relations as well — relations which are already under severe strain because of the looming trade war and the Trump administration's imposition of tariffs.

The report warns, however, that the calculation could change — depending on how Trump handles the NATO summit.
Defence experts have raised the prospect of the U.S. pulling back militarily from Europe, a notion officials in Washington have attempted to downplay.
Even so, Trump could make decisions that would force Canada to re-evaluate its position.
"For Canada and Europe, the most worrisome possibility is U.S. disengagement — a spectre raised by President Trump's behaviour at the Singapore Summit with North Korea, where he offered to sacrifice U.S.-Korean military exercises while floating a general pull-back of U.S. Forces," said the report.
"If that happens along NATO's frontier with Russia, Canada would have to consider whether to recommit alongside European allies to show its faith in NATO — but without America's supporting presence. That, in itself, would raise questions about the very future of NATO."




Check the recent history of the Baltic states and Ukraine as well as that of the Caucasus. Russia did not want to let go of any of these regions, but it lacked the will and military strength to fight protracted wars in each of them. I suspect that is still the case. It costs money to fight wars and the Russian oligarchs have stolen most of it.
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
37,070
8
36
Check the recent history of the Baltic states and Ukraine as well as that of the Caucasus. Russia did not want to let go of any of these regions, but it lacked the will and military strength to fight protracted wars in each of them. I suspect that is still the case. It costs money to fight wars and the Russian oligarchs have stolen most of it.

Russia wants her old empire back

So does China. Now THAT's a can of worms!
 

10larry

Electoral Member
Apr 6, 2010
722
0
16
Niagara Falls
I think that assisting and absorbing refugees from war torn countries that usa has destroyed is a military budget.
You break it, you fix it isnt in Ameras sense of morals.

So true, they raze nation after nation for at best suspicious reason at worst purely fabricated reason, can't think of any conflict where they emerged victorious or rebuilt their victims shambles.
Wonder the cost of war games and size of carbon footprint, more nato fund$ more u.s. military complex sales and games to play, comparing the number of nato/u.s. invasions to russia's leaves russia in a deep deficit position.
 

Walter

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 28, 2007
34,888
126
63
Wherever the US has left troops behind after a war is won that country has prospered. If the US leaves the country fails.
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
37,070
8
36
The "dough boys" did not stay behind and the US had to return to Europe 20 years later.

They brought lots more dough with them the second time around.

btw, The Dough Boys had to return because Woodrow Wilson did not believe in taking the measures to prevent that from happening. He was a LIE-beral.
 

Walter

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 28, 2007
34,888
126
63
They brought lots more dough with them the second time around.

btw, The Dough Boys had to return because Woodrow Wilson did not believe in taking the measures to prevent that from happening. He was a LIE-beral.
Wilson was a Dem, a racist, and resegregated the civil service.
 

Twin_Moose

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 17, 2017
22,041
6,160
113
Twin Moose Creek
Check the recent history of the Baltic states and Ukraine as well as that of the Caucasus. Russia did not want to let go of any of these regions, but it lacked the will and military strength to fight protracted wars in each of them. I suspect that is still the case. It costs money to fight wars and the Russian oligarchs have stolen most of it.

Of course Russia wants these countries to stay within their sphere of influence, but what do these independent countries want? Russia doesn't want to invade them that would bring the UN in to the situation, but if they can keep the countries unstable (see Georgia, Ukraine) then they stay within Russia's realm and away from joining NATO freely.
 

justlooking

Council Member
May 19, 2017
1,312
3
36
Not true for Vietnam. They're doing better than ever, now that ALL of the foreigners are gone (for a time, anyway).


:lol:
50 years later, and after shedding the Communism that won the war.


All the foreigners ?


Nope, just lots fo foreign money.


:lol:
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
37,070
8
36
:lol:
50 years later, and after shedding the Communism that won the war.


All the foreigners ?


Nope, just lots fo foreign money.


:lol:

Of course they get foreign investment. That's how the world works.

The Vietnamese have been occupied by The Americans, French, Japanese, Chinese and Kmer, over the span of just a couple of centuries. The Chinese likely still consider Indochina to be part of their empire, thus the manner that they have successfully grabbed everyone's ocean access in the South China Sea. That will not end up in a good place.
 

justlooking

Council Member
May 19, 2017
1,312
3
36
Just sad to read this, a travel warning for the UK.




Americans in UK warned to 'keep a low profile' during Trump's visit to Britain, over fears of violent protests


  • U.S. President Donald Trump will visit Britain from Thursday to Saturday
  • Tens of thousands are expected to take to streets to protest against his policies
  • U.S. Embassy warned Americans on the UK these protests could turn violent
  • They advised 'keeping a low profile' and 'being aware of your surroundings'
Americans in UK warned to 'keep a low profile' during Trump's visit | Daily Mail Online