NATO & the Trump Factor

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justlooking

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May 19, 2017
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Bar Sinister said:
I have two questions for all of the supporters of increased defence spending. First where is the extra cash for the increased spending going to come from? An increase in spending from 1.4% of GDP to 2% of GDP would be about 9 billion dollars. That would require one of two things - either an increase in taxes or a cut in services.
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This is no increase in spending, it's to meet our agreements in NATO. Basic things we all agreed to years ago.


Cut services.







Number two: What military threat does Canada actually face? Canada is almost impossible to invade except from the south and the last time there was even the remote possibility that Canada might be invaded was during World War II. [/quote]


So, are you saying that we shouldn't spend anything on the military ?
Shall we take it down to zero ?
Hey, let's just leave NATO, because it hasn't done anything for 60 years now.




I do agree that in its present form the Canadian military isn't up to much. Part of the reason for that is that the military budget is split three ways, resulting in a situation that leaves Canada with a weak, army, a weak air force, and a weak navy. About three decades ago military historian Gwynne Dyer proposed that Canada focus on just one branch of the services and eliminate the other two. That proposal was not well received and as a result we are left with the current underfunded military.
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Not since Pearson..... 2%


And now a question for the lefties around here.


What the real reason for you to be screaming so loud about 2%, a commitment we have never met, and probably never will.


Too much money ?


Or, the reason I suspect, is just more TDS.
 
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OpposingDigit

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I think that it is the threat of being nuked which prevents war against NATO members and not a few tanks. NATO members should just pay a share of the costs for nuclear maintenance and readiness and not on tanks and stuff.

However; if NATO envisions itself as a world policeman rather than a North Atlantic defense group, then I guess it may need a few tanks.

Militaries are actually The Praetorian Guard ready and willing to protect the Ruling Class as personal body guards and it is the threat of being attacked by outside forces which camouflages this fact.
 
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Curious Cdn

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OpposingDigit said:
I think that it is the threat of being nuked which prevents war against NATO members and not a few tanks. NATO members should just pay a share of the costs for nuclear maintenance and readiness and not on tanks and stuff.

However; if NATO envisions itself as a world policeman rather than a North Atlantic defense group, then I guess it may need a few tanks.

Militaries are actually The Praetorian Guard ready and willing to protect the Ruling Class as personal body guards and it is the threat of being attacked by outside forces which camouflages this fact.
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In the 1980s, when the NATO allies were standing down their various garrisons in Germany, the Warsaw pact reaction was to increase the size and numbers of mechanized soldiers on the Elbe, viewing it as a weakness and military opportunity. The NATO response was to deploy more theatre nuclear weapons in Europe to make up the difference and re-gain the balance of power. Unintended consequences ...
 
JLM

JLM

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Bar Sinister said:
Number two: What military threat does Canada actually face? Canada is almost impossible to invade except from the south and the last time there was even the remote possibility that Canada might be invaded was during World War II.
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Russia, China, Iran, N. Korea for starters! Maybe it's time to be a little resourceful and have a duel fund in the "piggy bank" to be used where needed for either defense or domestic disasters.
 
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JLM

JLM

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Bar Sinister said:
I have two questions for all of the supporters of increased defence spending. First where is the extra cash for the increased spending going to come from? An increase in spending from 1.4% of GDP to 2% of GDP would be about 9 billion dollars. That would require one of two things - either an increase in taxes or a cut in services.
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A cut in services for sure over time. How many people are drawing welfare? You don't hear too many suggestions from Gov't. lately for the layabouts to go find a f**king job. Then there's the P.M.'s office and all his expenses like daycare for his kids and travel for his wife and all his first class plane rides and a huge entourage when he travels. Just take a look at his meal expenses while travelling. I'd bet that is close to $100 a day or more. It's obscene!
 
H

Hoid

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I find it interesting that China is buying oil from Iran because Trump tariffs.
 
Twin_Moose

Twin_Moose

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Hoid said:
go to school
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You just got schooled son ;)

Bar Sinister said:
I have two questions for all of the supporters of increased defence spending. First where is the extra cash for the increased spending going to come from? An increase in spending from 1.4% of GDP to 2% of GDP would be about 9 billion dollars. That would require one of two things - either an increase in taxes or a cut in services.
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It would be closer to $16 Billion and 1/2 of it could come from the invisible social infrastructure that is in the budget now, cut back on the welfare payments paid out around the world that basically are stolen by dictators. There is a very large sink hole for money in Canada that no one wants to talk about, because they will be called racist that can more than pay for the increase in spending. A portion of the new carbon tax can be allocated to the military and why not they are being spent on general maintenance on Gov. buildings anyway. just a few ideas anyway


Number two: What military threat does Canada actually face? Canada is almost impossible to invade except from the south and the last time there was even the remote possibility that Canada might be invaded was during World War II.
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We will never be in a direct threat from the world due to our great relationship and under protection from our neighbours to the South. But does this say we shouldn't help our neighbours by securing our own sovereignty along with NORAD we can be investing in missile defense, upgrading aircraft, upgrading northern defense warships (heavy ice breakers), heavily investing in upgrading our coast guard (credit Hoid with this), upgrading infantry personal armour and equipment, upgrading communication equip. including satellites. just a few ideas


I do agree that in its present form the Canadian military isn't up to much. Part of the reason for that is that the military budget is split three ways, resulting in a situation that leaves Canada with a weak, army, a weak air force, and a weak navy. About three decades ago military historian Gwynne Dyer proposed that Canada focus on just one branch of the services and eliminate the other two. That proposal was not well received and as a result we are left with the current underfunded military.
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It doesn't have to be upgraded all at once but if we put an annual procurement budget in place we can upgrade yearly on smaller numbers to keep us current at all times without huge money injection every 10 years or so.
 
10larry

10larry

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JLM said:
A cut in services for sure over time. How many people are drawing welfare? You don't hear too many suggestions from Gov't. lately for the layabouts to go find a f**king job. Then there's the P.M.'s office and all his expenses like daycare for his kids and travel for his wife and all his first class plane rides and a huge entourage when he travels. Just take a look at his meal expenses while travelling. I'd bet that is close to $100 a day or more. It's obscene!
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Your joking of course... $100 a day for eats enjoyed by any swivel servant during travel would not cover tips, use a few xxxxs to approximate the head civil servants meal ticket.
 
JLM

JLM

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10larry said:
Your joking of course... $100 a day for eats enjoyed by any swivel servant during travel would not cover tips, use a few xxxxs to approximate the head civil servants meal ticket.
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Yeah, I guess I'm way out of date. When I was a low level gov't grunt back in the dark ages we could claim about $30 per diem for meals on the road. ('Obscene' obviously isn't a strong enough word)

Tips should come out of their own pocket.
 
C

Curious Cdn

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JLM said:
Yeah, I guess I'm way out of date. When I was a low level gov't grunt back in the dark ages we could claim about $30 per diem for meals on the road. ('Obscene' obviously isn't a strong enough word)
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Ate at Jack-in-the-box Box a lot, eh?
 
Ocean Breeze

Ocean Breeze

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Walter said:
Why Europe Gets No Respect
https://www.hoover.org/research/why-europe-gets-no-respect

Brilliant analysis.
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From whom??

Curious Cdn said:
Not a "bible" but not "fake news" either. The only working definition of "fake news" going is news that does not flatter Trump.

It's all about Trump and Trump's vanity.
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Indeed. What Trump calls "fake news" is usually the factual, REAL news. It just isn't what Trump wants to hear. But to say that the press (media)is the enemy of the people is way too far for a so o called democratic leader. It is a page right out of the worst dictatorships that have existed. but strangely Putin and his antics, is nt.

Something about being wired backwards comes to mind.Trump treats his allies like crap but his enemies with unabashed adoration. Has to be in his DNA......coding.

In his alternate reality there was no baby tru;mp balloon over London emphasizing his character flaws... The evidence was there for all to see and video.
 
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Cliffy

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Nov 19, 2008
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hahahaha
 
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