Nasrallah's MEA CULPA ----YEP, THE AMAZING TRUTH SHOWS UP

jimmoyer

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Nasrallah's mea culpa
By Claude Salhani
Published August 31, 2006

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It's a rare event when a leader in the Arab world openly admits to having been wrong. And it's even rarer when that leader goes on international television to confess his mistakes. Blunders in this part of the world have a tendency to be blamed on others, and usually with dire consequences for the ones being blamed. But strange things sometimes happen in the Middle East. This one counts among them.

Indeed, Hezbollah Secretary-General Hassan Nasrallah surprised many people when he apologized during a television interview Sunday, taking full blame for inciting Israel to unleash its fury on Lebanon during 34 days of war. It was Sheik Nasrallah's community, the Shi'ites, who were the hardest hit.

Speaking to the Lebanese news station NTV Sunday, Sheik Nasrallah said he would not have ordered the capture of two Israeli soldiers -- Ehud Goldwasser and Eldad Regev -- and the killing of three others had he known the ferocity of Israel's response.

"We did not think, even 1 percent, that the capture (of the two soldiers) would lead to a war at this time and of this magnitude," said Sheik Nasrallah. "You ask me, if I had known on July 11... that the operation would lead to such a war, would I do it? I say no, absolutely not."

However, Sheik Nasrallah went on to say that had the war not started when it did on July 12, "in any case Israel would have attacked in October." He did not elaborate, nor did he explain how or why he believed an Israeli raid was imminent in the fall. But intelligence sources have told United Press International that Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert had sought the blessing of the White House to go after Hezbollah -- and obtained it -- during a visit to Washington in the spring.

The leader of the Lebanese Shi'ite group -- which figures on the U.S. State Department's terrorist list -- told his interviewer he did not believe Israel would try for another round of fighting.

"The current Israeli situation tells us that we are not heading to another round," he said. Sheik Nasrallah was referring to the political storm in which the Israeli government finds itself today after being accused of mismanaging the war against Hezbollah, a war in which 150 Israelis were killed, most of them soldiers.

Sheik Nasrallah -- and his Syrian and Iranian backers -- were quick to declare victory at the end of the 34-day war in which much of the Lebanese infrastructure was devastated, the multi-million dollar tourist industry frightened away and more than 1,000 people killed, 3,500 injured and, and, and. ...

Sheik Nasrallah's mea culpa, and in public no less, is raising questions from Washington to Paris to capitals across the Middle East. Why? Why would he appear so humble? Especially given that he must have known that Israel would jump at the chance to slam Hezbollah and to turn Sheik Nasrallah's "victory" into a defeat.

"He's beginning to feel the pinch and knew he was going to be held accountable," Hisham Melhem, An-Nahar correspondent in Washington told UPI.

Israeli officials in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv said that the sheik's admission shows that he realizes he did not win the war. Another official said this was proof that Israel had regained its deterrence. "If he... had he known what the consequences would have been, he wouldn't have kidnapped the soldiers," Israeli officials are saying. This "indicates Israel has dissuaded him from doing it again."

Sheik Nasrallah's comments may be attributed to an internal political debate currently taking place in Lebanon involving all Lebanese political parties and most likely, the forum of much of Hezbollah's recent critics. Mr. Melhem told UPI that Sheik Nasrallah must have come under very heavy pressure from his own constituents as well as from other Lebanese political parties.

Another analyst who requested anonymity said that "the interview serves nothing and changes nothing." As for Israel saying this proves Hezbollah did not win the war, the same analyst points out that "it is in Israel's interest to say such things.

"Israel's action was like the man who wants to swat a mosquito on a young boy's face but ends up slamming the boy with a baseball bat on the head. He kills the boy but misses the mosquito," said the analyst.

But Sheik Nasrallah is not in the habit of speaking for the sake of speaking. The fact that he gave the interview to a television station other than his own, Hezbollah's al-Manar, indicates that first and foremost he wanted to address the Lebanese community at large, rather than just his fellow Shi'ites.

With the fighting phase over, many Lebanese feel they can now speak out against the mayhem caused by the sheik's misadventure.

Says Hisham Melhem, who sees in Sheik Nasrallah someone who was looking out for Iran's interests: "He was trying to turn Beirut into Tehran on the Mediterranean."

The 34-day war -- along with the death and destruction it brought -- has changed the perception many Lebanese had of Hezbollah, including some in Sheik Nasrallah's own community. This might offer one explanation for his act of contrition.

Claude Salhani is international editor of United Press International.
 

Logic 7

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Re: Nasrallah's MEA CULPA ----YEP, THE AMAZING TRUTH SHOWS U

jimmoyer said:
Nasrallah's mea culpa
By Claude Salhani
Published August 31, 2006

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I
Claude Salhani is international editor of United Press International.


He doesnt blame themselves, they only realize how crazy israeli leaders are, if hezbollah would have done 10% of what israel has done, the entire lebanon would be wipe off the map, that is a sad fact.

In other word, this is the message to lebanon.


"be with us, or you die"



However your article is quitly biased, claiming that many lebanese can talk against hezbollah, sure, but hezbollah became very popular in lebanon, they have support from sunnite and christians now thankx to the "Coalition of the willing"
 

tamarin

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RE: Nasrallah's MEA CULPA ----YEP, THE AMAZING TRUTH SHOWS U

Now it's up to the contrite leader to raise the funds necessary to rebuild what his rash decisions have allowed/invited to be destroyed. It's not the business of the international community to clean up after him. He made his bed, he messed it up. Now let him lie in it. And do it busily.
 

jimmoyer

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RE: Nasrallah's MEA CULPA ----YEP, THE AMAZING TRUTH SHOWS U

Seems like Nassrallah's mea culpa is duplicitous,
feigning on one hand lack of ability to predict Israel's
response and on the other hand quite cannily predicting
what Israel was going to do anyway?

Interesting, eh ?

Read the excerpts below:
------------------------------------------



Why? Why would he appear so humble? Especially given that he must have known that Israel would jump at the chance to slam Hezbollah and to turn Sheik Nasrallah's "victory" into a defeat.

"We did not think, even 1 percent, that the capture (of the two soldiers) would lead to a war at this time and of this magnitude," said Sheik Nasrallah. "You ask me, if I had known on July 11... that the operation would lead to such a war, would I do it? I say no, absolutely not."

However, Sheik Nasrallah went on to say that had the war not started when it did on July 12, "in any case Israel would have attacked in October." He did not elaborate, nor did he explain how or why he believed an Israeli raid was imminent in the fall.
 

Logic 7

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Re: RE: Nasrallah's MEA CULPA ----YEP, THE AMAZING TRUTH SHO

tamarin said:
Now it's up to the contrite leader to raise the funds necessary to rebuild what his rash decisions have allowed/invited to be destroyed. It's not the business of the international community to clean up after him. He made his bed, he messed it up. Now let him lie in it. And do it busily.


I think you are right, it is up to israel to pay for the mess, not the international communauty.
 

Logic 7

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RE: Nasrallah's MEA CULPA

It is like i give you the finger, and in response to that, you break my legs and my hands, so i can't move anymore, so who is to blame?
 

Colpy

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RE: Nasrallah's MEA CULPA ----YEP, THE AMAZING TRUTH SHOWS U

Logic 7 said
It is like i give you the finger
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Try explaining that one to the Israerli soldiers killed in the initial Hezbollah raid, or those kidnapped (and probably tortured to death by now) or their families.

Pretty lethal finger.

And the Israeli response seems to have worked. If I broke every bone in your body, you would hesitate to give me the finger again.

I have to wonder: do you have ANY idea who you are supporting? Here's some clues you seem to be lacking...............
Hassan Nasrallah has a history of making anti-Semitic statements (e.g. “if they [Jews] all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide”[55]). Despite Nasrallah's remarks, Hezbollah's official Web site marks a distinction between "Zionist ideology" and Judaism. It sees the rejection of Zionism as an attitude hold across "races, religions, and nationalities". It likens Zionism to "the concept of creating 'Israel' by the use of force and violence, by stealing the Arabs’ lands and killing Palestinians". "[O]pposing the Zionists ideology is not opposing setting a home for Jews".[56]

Amal Saad-Ghorayeb, a Shiite scholar and Assistant Professor at the Lebanese American University, however, argues that Hezbollah is not Anti-Zionist, but actually Anti-Jewish. She quotes Hassan Nasrallah as saying, "If we searched the entire world for a person more cowardly, despicable, weak and feeble in psyche, mind, ideology and religion, we would not find anyone like the Jew. Notice, I do not say the Israeli[57]." Regarding the official public stance of the organization as a whole, she argues that while Hezbollah, "tries to mask its anti-Judaism for public-relations reasons..a study of its language, spoken and written, reveals an underlying truth." In her book, "Hezbollah: Politics & Religion," she dissects the anti-Jewish roots of Hezbollah ideology, arguing that Hezbollah "believes that Jews, by the nature of Judaism, possess fatal character flaws." Saad-Ghorayeb also argues that "Hezbollah's Koranic reading of Jewish history has led its leaders to believe that Jewish theology is evil."[58] "

In 2004 the Hezbollah-owned television station Al-Manar was banned in France on the grounds that it was inciting racial hatred. The court cited a 23 November broadcast in which a speaker accused Israel of deliberately disseminating AIDS in Arab nations.[59]

tp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah#Position_on_Jews_and_Judiasm

Hezbollah has acted on these perverse beliefs.......in the eighties, they hunted down LEBANESE Jews. They blew up a Jewish community centre in Argentenia, for God's sake. (TRY to explain what THAT had to do with the "liberation" of Lebanon)

Iran, the provider of Hezbollah's weapons and inspiration, is led by a holocaust denier.........who just jailed a Canadian for MONTHS (undoubtedly complete with the requisite torture) for publically declaring the President incorrect in his denial of that historical event.

Hezbollah is EVIL, pure and simple. Neutrality in this conflic is morally unacceptable, IMHO. Support for Hezbollah is beyond the Pale.

The comparisons of Hezbollah and the Nazi Party are VERY apt.
 

wallyj

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RE: Nasrallah's MEA CULPA ----YEP, THE AMAZING TRUTH SHOWS U

Well said Colby. Unfortunately there is way too many people who believe that any conflict anywhere is related to George Bush and that means to the simple folk, that they must side with the terrorists. Hopefully the appeasers fade away in time or our women will be wearing burqas and my beer stash will disappear.
 

Logic 7

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Re: RE: Nasrallah's MEA CULPA ----YEP, THE AMAZING TRUTH SHO

Colpy said:
Logic 7 said
It is like i give you the finger
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Try explaining that one to the Israerli soldiers killed in the initial Hezbollah raid, or those kidnapped (and probably tortured to death by now) or their families.

Pretty lethal finger.


Hezbollah is EVIL, pure and simple. Neutrality in this conflic is morally unacceptable, IMHO. Support for Hezbollah is beyond the Pale.

The comparisons of Hezbollah and the Nazi Party are VERY apt.


It was military target, not civilians, by following your logic, it is ok, if we fu7ked you all, but don't try anything on us, or you die.


Hezbollah never blew up jews communauty in argentina, they never claimed responsability for it, a lebanon group called,"partisan of god" claimed it.

You are mixing anti-zionist and anti-semite in the same thing, which is not, hezbollah are ready to recognize israel, outside of the disputed territory, their main goal was to have palestine like it was before 1948, and native jew would live in minority, so to summerize, all they hate hezbollah is the zionist entity,i know you are having an hard time with real fact by reading your post, so please do your homework and get your facts straight , once for all.
 

Colpy

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Re: RE: Nasrallah's MEA CULPA ----YEP, THE AMAZING TRUTH SHO

Logic 7 said:
[

It was military target, not civilians, by following your logic, it is ok, if we fu7ked you all, but don't try anything on us, or you die.


Hezbollah never blew up jews communauty in argentina, they never claimed responsability for it, a lebanon group called,"partisan of god" claimed it.

You are mixing anti-zionist and anti-semite in the same thing, which is not, hezbollah are ready to recognize israel, outside of the disputed territory, their main goal was to have palestine like it was before 1948, and native jew would live in minority, so to summerize, all they hate hezbollah is the zionist entity,i know you are having an hard time with real fact by reading your post, so please do your homework and get your facts straight , once for all.

Your reply is.......well, let's just leave at that.

If Israel was trying to target civilians in Lebanon, there would be 200,000 dead, not 1200.

Exactly HOW are the Lebanese Jews murdered by Hezbollah to be considered Zionists?

AND, if you read the quotes, you would understand that Hezbollah wants to killl ALL Jews. What are you supporting genocidal religious fanatics?

And yes, the centre in Argentina was destroyed by Hezbollah, it doesn't matter what sort of a nom de jour they were using.

If nothing else, you must realize that Hezbollah is the proxy of Iran, a state led by a holocaust-denying, mad tyrant and torturer......with enthusiastic fantasies of Armagedon, and a nuclear arms program ..........

You have your head stuck firmly in the sand, and are supporting unspeakable evil. You seem to have an inate ability to deny the obvious.............and you declare it all with an air of moral superiority.......

You must be a "progressive", eh?
 

earth_as_one

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RE: Nasrallah's MEA CULPA ----YEP, THE AMAZING TRUTH SHOWS U

Define winning?

If winning is the ability to inflict greater military casualities than recieved? Then Hezbollah won by a clear margin.

If winning is the ability inflict greater civilian death and destruction than recieved? Then Israel won by a wide margin.

If winning is the ability to dictate the terms of peace, then neither side won.

Both sides will have to go back to the strategy board and address their weaknesses. Israel will try to find better ways to kill Hezbollah militants. Hezbollah will try to find better ways to inflict death and destruction on Israeli civilians.

>>>

Given Israel's swift response and its scale, its obvious Israel activated a Lebanon invasion plan. Nasrallah's speculation that Israel would have invaded anyway isn't that different from well respected, investigative journalist Seymore Hersh's conclusions:

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060821fa_fact

Hersh's sources if accurate confirm that the US not only helped Israel put together its plan to commit war crimes, it also ran diplomatic cover at the UN to allow Israel time to slaughter hundreds of innocent Lebanese civilians.

That's not taking sides, but an observation.

Hezbollah has as much right to launch raids against Israel as Israel does to launch against Hezbollah. Both sides have been doing these things since the eighties, regardless of truces or ceasefire agreements.

Therefore Hezbollah's raid wasn't out of the ordinary. Israel's decision to target Lebanese civilians in response to a purely military raid was out of the ordinary.

>>>>

If you want to go back to the eighties when Israel invaded and occupied Lebanon, then I think its fair to mention Ariel Sharon's Sabra and Shatila massacre when then General Ariel Sharon sent mercernaries into a Palestinian refugee camp to slaughter hundreds of Palestinian men, women and children.

Here's a first hand account:
http://www.mediamonitors.net/drbenalofs1.html

The mass murderer behind this war crime, Ariel Sharon later became Israel's PM. When Ariel Sharon gave a green light to commit mass murder, the Israeli PM was also a mass murderer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

Is it any surprise that each time Israel ethnically cleanses another piece of Palestine, or commits yet another war crime or crime against humanity, it results in more angry people dedicated to Israel's destruction?
 

Colpy

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Re: RE: Nasrallah's MEA CULPA ----YEP, THE AMAZING TRUTH SHO

Define winning?

If winning is the ability to inflict greater military casualities than recieved? Then Hezbollah won by a clear margin.

I doubt that. I would bet that a number of those "civilian" casualties were manning rocket launchers or carrying AKs before they died. Israel considers it a disaster to lose any soldiers, if a group like Hezbollah had actually killed more Israeli soldiers than they took casualties, there would be revolution in Tel Aviv.

If winning is the ability inflict greater civilian death and destruction than recieved? Then Israel won by a wide margin.

True, but not for lack of trying on Hezbollah's part.

If winning is the ability to dictate the terms of peace, then neither side won.

Actually, Israel was quite pleased with the ORIGINAL cease-fire agreement, but that has changed as Hezbollah and the UN (and France) back-pedal.

Both sides will have to go back to the strategy board and address their weaknesses. Israel will try to find better ways to kill Hezbollah militants. Hezbollah will try to find better ways to inflict death and destruction on Israeli civilians.

Absolutely true.
>>>

Given Israel's swift response and its scale, its obvious Israel activated a Lebanon invasion plan. Nasrallah's speculation that Israel would have invaded anyway isn't that different from well respected, investigative journalist Seymore Hersh's conclusions:

Of COURSE Israel has plans for an attack on Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, etc etc. My God, they are STILL officially at war with Lebanon, and have been since 1948. For Israel military planners NOT to have invasion plans would be negligent in the highest degree.

Hersh's sources if accurate confirm that the US not only helped Israel put together its plan to commit war crimes, it also ran diplomatic cover at the UN to allow Israel time to slaughter hundreds of innocent Lebanese civilians.

That's not taking sides, but an observation.

Don't be ridiculous.

If Israel had been TRYING to kill civilians, there would be 200,000 dead. If Israel had NOT been trying to AVOID civilian casualties, there would be 10,000 dead.

Hezbollah has as much right to launch raids against Israel as Israel does to launch against Hezbollah. Both sides have been doing these things since the eighties, regardless of truces or ceasefire agreements.

Israel withdrew from ALL of Lebanon 6 YEARS ago. Israel has no reason to attack Hezbollah EXCEPT in self-defense, as Hezbollah wants to create a middle eastern holocaust.

Therefore Hezbollah's raid wasn't out of the ordinary. Israel's decision to target Lebanese civilians in response to a purely military raid was out of the ordinary.

See above.

Just plain silly.
>>>>

If you want to go back to the eighties when Israel invaded and occupied Lebanon, then I think its fair to mention Ariel Sharon's Sabra and Shatila massacre when then General Ariel Sharon sent mercernaries into a Palestinian refugee camp to slaughter hundreds of Palestinian men, women and children.

Here's a first hand account:
I would agree that the Israelis b... was also a mass murderer.[/quote] See above
 

Logic 7

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Colpy said:
Your reply is.......well, let's just leave at that.

If Israel was trying to target civilians in Lebanon, there would be 200,000 dead, not 1200.

Exactly HOW are the Lebanese Jews murdered by Hezbollah to be considered Zionists?

AND, if you read the quotes, you would understand that Hezbollah wants to killl ALL Jews. What are you supporting genocidal religious fanatics?

And yes, the centre in Argentina was destroyed by Hezbollah, it doesn't matter what sort of a nom de jour they were using.

If nothing else, you must realize that Hezbollah is the proxy of Iran, a state led by a holocaust-denying, mad tyrant and torturer......with enthusiastic fantasies of Armagedon, and a nuclear arms program ..........

You have your head stuck firmly in the sand, and are supporting unspeakable evil. You seem to have an inate ability to deny the obvious.............and you declare it all with an air of moral superiority.......

You must be a "progressive", eh?



It is just as stupid as to say, if hezbollah would have really targeted civilians, they would have killed 5000 peoples instead of 30 out of 150 idf, how do you know they didnt targeted the civilians? most of the bridge are completly destroyed, infrastructure, roads, that is targeting civilians, not hezbollah.Amnesty international recalls israel for war crimes in lebanon and gaza.

Hezbollah didnt murdered lebanese jews, a group called "organisation of the oppressed" did.

I admit, he is not helping himself by denying the holocost and being a religious zealot, but you know , usa are driven by Fundamentalist christian, which also believe with enthousiastic fantasie of armagedon, and every piece of sand in israel, belongs to jews, otherwise, we all go to hell, israel is also driven by zionist zealots, who believe in armagadon, otherwise, what is the point of having so much nuclear weapons? same with usa, both of them, has enough nuclear weapons to blow up the entire world, when in fact, iran are about 5 to 10 years to make their first nuclear bomb, so please, again put your paranoi aside, and get your facts straight, and remember who has used the nuclear bomb before.
 

earth_as_one

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Colpy said:
Define winning?

If winning is the ability to inflict greater military casualities than recieved? Then Hezbollah won by a clear margin.

I doubt that. I would bet that a number of those "civilian" casualties were manning rocket launchers or carrying AKs before they died. Israel considers it a disaster to lose any soldiers, if a group like Hezbollah had actually killed more Israeli soldiers than they took casualties, there would be revolution in Tel Aviv.

Then you would lose that bet. Here is what the Lebanese news says:

Israeli offensive killed 1,287 in Lebanon: official tolls

The Israeli offensive on Lebanon has left at least 1,287 people, nearly all civilians, dead and 4,054 wounded, according to an AFP count based on official figures on Saturday 19 August 2006:
At least 1,140 civilians -- 30 percent of them children under 12 -- have been killed along with 43 Lebanese army and police troops in the month-long offensive that ended on Monday, the state High Relief Committee said.The HRC tolls do not count people still believed to be under the rubble in various locations across the country.

The Lebanese Shiite militant group Hezbollah has announced the death in action of 74 combatants while the allied Amal movement lost 17 militants.

The radical pro-Syrian Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command (PFLP-GC) of Ahmad Jibril said two of its militants were killed in Israeli raids.

Israeli strikes also killed four United Nations observers and one member of the UN Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL).

Six people were killed and 13 others wounded by the explosion of Israeli bomblets since the cessation of hostilities between Israel and Hezbollah went into effect on Monday, police said.

The Daily Star Lebanon
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/July_War06.asp

Also from Amnesty International:

...Israeli government spokespeople have insisted that they were targeting Hizbullah positions and support facilities, and that damage to civilian infrastructure was incidental or resulted from Hizbullah using the civilian population as a "human shield". However, the pattern and scope of the attacks, as well as the number of civilian casualties and the amount of damage sustained, makes the justification ring hollow. The evidence strongly suggests that the extensive destruction of public works, power systems, civilian homes and industry was deliberate and an integral part of the military strategy, rather than "collateral damage" – incidental damage to civilians or civilian property resulting from targeting military objectives...
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE180072006


....Israel was quite pleased with the ORIGINAL cease-fire agreement, but that has changed as Hezbollah and the UN (and France) back-pedal.

Perhaps you can find a link to where Hezbollah and Israel signed a formal ceasefire agreement. Both Israel and Hezbollah agreed to the Israel/US written UN resolution with certain reservations. Neither side is abiding by all the terms. Israel is guilty of most documented violations.

Israel Today
Annan: Israel responsible for most ceasefire violations

United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan said yesterday during his visit to Jerusalem, that Israel is responsible for most of the ceasefire violations in south Lebanon and demanded that Israel lift the sea and air blockade from Lebanon. “It is important to allow Beirut to return to normal economic activity and rebuild itself,” Annan said.
Annan promised that the augmented UN force to be deployed in south Lebanon will ensure that there are no armed Hizballah terrorists south of the Litani River. “Civilians from both sides suffered, and it is a time to live in peace,” Annan said after his meeting with Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.

Annan promised that the UN will do everything to bring the kidnapped soldiers back home. “As a husband and a father I feel the pain of the families. I notified Hizballah they must release the soldiers unconditionally.” He added that he is convinced the Lebanese leadership is serious in its wish to resolve the issue of the kidnapped soldiers. According to him, he had the impression the soldiers are alive.

Prime Minister Olmert said after the meeting that the international community must focus on a complete implementation of Resolution 1701, and hoped that Israel and Lebanon could soon open a direct line of talks between them.

In reaction to that call, Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad Saniora rejected the offering and said that “there will be no direct negotiations between Jerusalem and Beirut. We do not aspire to an agreement.” Saniora also said that Lebanon would be the last Arab state to sign a peace agreement with Israel: “There are 300,000 Arabs out there. If everyone agreed, Lebanon will sign.”
http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=178&nid=9288

Doesn't sound too permanent to me. Sounds to me like both sides have agreed to stop killing civilians and to cool off military operations somewhat.



Given Israel's swift response and its scale, its obvious Israel activated a Lebanon invasion plan. Nasrallah's speculation that Israel would have invaded anyway isn't that different from well respected, investigative journalist Seymore Hersh's conclusions:

Of COURSE Israel has plans for an attack on Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, etc etc. My God, they are STILL officially at war with Lebanon, and have been since 1948. For Israel military planners NOT to have invasion plans would be negligent in the highest degree.

You are missing my point. When Hezbollah captured their soldiers, Israel was already getting ready to invade Lebanon. As in they were nearly ready to do it. Hezbollah's raid triggered Israel to execute its plan.

Hersh's sources if accurate confirm that the US not only helped Israel put together its plan to commit war crimes, it also ran diplomatic cover at the UN to allow Israel time to slaughter hundreds of innocent Lebanese civilians.

That's not taking sides, but an observation.

Don't be ridiculous.

If Israel had been TRYING to kill civilians, there would be 200,000 dead. If Israel had NOT been trying to AVOID civilian casualties, there would be 10,000 dead.

From the AI quote above:

...The evidence strongly suggests that the extensive destruction of public works, power systems, civilian homes and industry was deliberate and an integral part of the military strategy, rather than "collateral damage" ...


Hezbollah has as much right to launch raids against Israel as Israel does to launch against Hezbollah. Both sides have been doing these things since the eighties, regardless of truces or ceasefire agreements.

Israel withdrew from ALL of Lebanon 6 YEARS ago. Israel has no reason to attack Hezbollah EXCEPT in self-defense, as Hezbollah wants to create a middle eastern holocaust.

The fact is Israel never stopped attacking Hezbollah. Since most of the fighting has occurred in Lebanon, it supports Hezbollah's claim that they are defending themselves.

SECURITY COUNCIL EXTENDS MANDATE OF LEBANON FORCE UNTIL 31 JANUARY 2006,
UNANIMOUSLY ADOPTING RESOLUTION 1614 (2005)

...Violations of the Blue Line continued, most often in the form of recurring air violations by Israeli jets, helicopters and drones, as well as ground violations from the Lebanese side, primarily by Lebanese shepherds. Hostilities in the area escalated in May with armed exchanges between Hezbollah and the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) with rocket firing by unidentified armed elements. The situation deteriorated significantly on 29 June, when Hezbollah and the IDF engaged in a heavy exchange of fire in the Shab'a farms area, resulting in the death of one IDF soldier and the wounding of four others and the death of two Hezbollah fighters.

The hostilities that occurred in May and the grave incident on 29 June demonstrated, once more, that the situation remains volatile, with the potential for a deterioration of conditions, the Secretary-General states...

Source UN:
http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/fd...436a17a696daebb985257050004e2ba4!OpenDocument


Therefore Hezbollah's raid wasn't out of the ordinary. Israel's decision to target Lebanese civilians in response to a purely military raid was out of the ordinary.

See above.

Just plain silly.
>>>>

If you want to go back to the eighties when Israel invaded and occupied Lebanon, then I think its fair to mention Ariel Sharon's Sabra and Shatila massacre when then General Ariel Sharon sent mercernaries into a Palestinian refugee camp to slaughter hundreds of Palestinian men, women and children.

Here's a first hand account:
I would agree that the Israelis b...o a mass murderer.[/quote] See above[/quote]
 

Just the Facts

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Re: RE: Nasrallah's MEA CULPA ----YEP, THE AMAZING TRUTH SHO

earth_as_one said:
Israel is guilty of most documented violations.

Israel is guilty of ALL the documented violations. There's only a ceasefire agreement when Israel violates it. When Hezboallah violates it, it's because there is no ceasefire agreement. See, I'm learning.
 

Colpy

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RE: Nasrallah's MEA CULPA ----YEP, THE AMAZING TRUTH SHOWS U

Hezbollah didnt murdered lebanese jews, a group called "organisation of the oppressed" did.

That's right.

And the Nazi Party didn't murder Russian Jews, an organization called the SS einsatzgruppen did.

Get real.

You are an apologist for genocidal lunatics, the enemies of western civilization.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
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48
RE: Nasrallah's MEA CULPA ----YEP, THE AMAZING TRUTH SHOWS U

UN Resolution 521 concerning the Sabra and Shatila massacre:

UN Security Council Res. Condemning the massacre of Palestinian civilians

Resolution 521 (1982)S/RES/521 (1982)
19 September 1982
Adopted by the Security Council at its 2396th meeting
on 19 September 1982

The Security Council,

Appalled at the massacre of Palestinian civilians in Beirut,

Having heard the report of the Secretary-General (S/15400),

Noting that the Government of Lebanon has agreed to the dispatch of United Nations Observers to the sites of greatest human suffering and losses in and around that city,

1. Condemns the criminal massacre of Palestinian civilians in Beirut;

2. Reaffirms once again its resolutions 512 (1982) and 513 (1982) which call for respect for the rights of the civilian population without any discrimination and repudiates all acts of violence against that population;

3. Authorizes the Secretary-General as an immediate step to increase the number of United Nations observers in and around Beirut from 10 to 50 and insists that there shall be no interference with the deployment of the observers and that they shall full freedom of movement;

4. Requests the Secretary-General, in consultation with the Government of Lebanon, to ensure the rapid deployment of those observers in order that they may contribute in every way possible within their mandate, to the effort to ensure full protection for the civilian population;

5. Requests the Secretary-General as a matter of urgency to initiate appropriate consultations and in particular consultations with the Government of Lebanon on additional steps which the Council might take, including the possible deployment of United Nations forces, to assist that Government in ensuring full protection for the civilian population in and around Beirut and requests him to report to the Council within forty-eight hours;

6. Insists that all concerned must permit United Nations observers and forces established by the Security Council in Lebanon to be deployed and to discharge their mandates and in this connexion solemnly calls attention to the obligation on all Member States under Article 25 of the Charter to accept and carry out the decisions of the Council in accordance with the Charter;

7. Requests the Secretary-General to keep the Council informed on an urgent and continuing basis.


UN General Assembly Res. Condemning the massacre of Palestinian civilians

ES-7/9. Question of Palestine

A/RES/ES-7/9
24 September 1982

The General Assembly,

Having considered the question of Palestine at its resumed seventh emergency special session,

Having heard the statement of the Palestine Liberation Organization, the representative of the Palestinian people,1/

Recalling and reaffirming, in particular, its resolution 194 (III) of 11 December 1948,

Appalled at the massacre of Palestinian civilians in Beirut,

Recalling Security Council resolutions 508 (1982) of 5 June 1982, 509 (1982) of 6 June 1982, 513 (1982) of 4 July 1982, 520 (1982) of 17 September 1982 and 521 (1982) of 19 September 1982,

Taking note of the reports of the Secretary-General relevant to the situation, particularly his report of 18 September 1982,2/

Noting with regret that the Security Council has so far not taken effective and practical measures, in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations, to ensure implementation of its resolutions 508 (1982) and 509 (1982),

Referring to the humanitarian principles of the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, of August 1949,3/ and to the obligations arising from the regulations annexed to the Hague Convention of 1907,4/

Deeply concerned at the sufferings of the Palestinian and Lebanese civilian populations,

Noting the homelessness of the Palestinian people,

Reaffirming the imperative need to permit the Palestinian people to exercise their legitimate rights,

1. Condemns the criminal massacre of Palestinian and other civilians in Beirut on 17 September 1982;

2. Urges the Security Council to investigate, through the means available to it, the circumstances and extent of the massacre of Palestinian and other civilians in Beirut on 17 September 1982, and to make public the report on its findings as soon as possible;

3. Decides to support fully the provisions of Security Council resolutions 508 (1982) and 509 (1982), in which the Council, inter alia, demanded that:

(a) Israel withdraw all its military forces forthwith and unconditionally to the internationally recognized boundaries of Lebanon;

(b) All parties to the conflict cease immediately and simultaneously all military activities within Lebanon and across the Lebanese-Israeli border;

4. Demands that all Member States and other parties observe strict respect for the sovereignty, territorial integrity, unity and political independence of Lebanon within its internationally recognized boundaries;

5. Reaffirms the fundamental principle of the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force;

6. Resolves that, in conformity with its resolution 194 (III) and subsequent relevant resolutions, the Palestinian refugees should be enabled to return to their homes and property from which they have been uprooted and displaced, and demands that Israel comply unconditionally and immediately with the present resolution;

7. Urges the Security Council, in the event of continued failure by Israel to comply with the demands contained in resolutions 508 (1982) and 509 (1982) and the present resolution, to meet in order to consider practical ways and means in accordance with the Charter of the United nations;

8. Calls upon all States and international agencies and organizations to continue to provide the most extensive humanitarian aid possible to the victims of the Israeli invasion of Lebanon;

9. Requests the Secretary-General to prepare a photographic exhibit of the massacre of 17 September 1982 and to display it in the United Nations visitors' hall;

10. Decides to adjourn the seventh emergency special session temporarily and to authorize the President of the latest regular session of the General Assembly to resume its meetings upon request from Member States.


UN Security Council Res. Resolving that the Sabra and Shatila massacre was a genocide

37/123. The situation in the Middle East

A/RES/37/123(A-F)
16 December 1982

The General Assembly,

Recalling its resolution 95 (I) of 11 December 1946,

Recalling also its resolution 96 (I) of 11 December 1946, in which it, inter alia, affirmed that genocide is a crime under international law which the civilized world condemns, and for the commission of which principals and accomplices -whether private individuals, public officials or statesmen, and whether the crime is committed on religious, racial, political or any other grounds - are punishable,

Referring to the provisions of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, adopted by the General Assembly on 9 December 1948,6/

Recalling the relevant provisions of the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, of 12 August 1949,2/

Appalled at the large-scale massacre of Palestinian civilians in the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps situated at Beirut,

Recognizing the universal outrage and condemnation of that massacre,

Recalling its resolution ES-7/9 of 24 September 1982,

1. Condemns in the strongest terms the large-scale massacre of Palestinian civilians in the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps;

2. Resolves that the massacre was an act of genocide.



UN Human Rights Commission resolving that the Sabra and Shatila massacre constitutes an act of a genocide

The UN demanded Israel withdraw from Lebanon, but they stayed their for nearly 20 years. In the end it wasn't a UN resoultion that got Israel to leave, but resistance groups like Hezbollah.

Now Israel has the chutzpah to demand Lebanon observe UN Security Council Resolution 1559 passed in 2004?????


1. Resolution 106: The Palestine Question (29 Mar 1955) 'condemns' Israel for Gaza raid.

2. Resolution 107: The Palestine Question (30 Mar)

3. Resolution 108: The Palestine Question (8 Sep)

4. Resolution 111: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people".

5. Resolution 127: " . . . 'recommends' Israel suspends it's 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem".

6. Resolution 162: " . . . 'urges' Israel to comply with UN decisions".

7. Resolution 171: " . . . determines flagrant violations' by Israel in its attack on Syria".

8. Resolution 228: " . . . 'censures' Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control".

9. Resolution 237: " . . . 'urges' Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees".

10. Resolution 242 (November 22, 1967): Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area. Calls upon Israel to withdraw its forces from land claimed by other parties in 1967 war. Interpreted commonly today as calling for the Land for peace principle as a way to resolve Arab-Israeli conflict.

11. Resolution 248: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan".

12. Resolution 250: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem".

13. Resolution 251: " . . . 'deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250".

14. Resolution 252: " . . . 'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital".

15. Resolution 256: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant violation".

16. Resolution 259: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation".

17. Resolution 262: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for attack on Beirut airport".

18. Resolution 265: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan".

19. Resolution 267: " . . . 'censures' Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem".

20. Resolution 270: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon".

21. Resolution 271: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem".

22. Resolution 279: " . . . 'demands' withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon".

23. Resolution 280: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli attacks against Lebanon".

24. Resolution 285: " . . . 'demands' immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon".

25. Resolution 298: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem".

26. Resolution 313: " . . . 'demands' that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon".

27. Resolution 316: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon".

28. Resolution 317: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon".

29. Resolution 332: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon".

30. Resolution 337: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty".

31. Resolution 338 (October 22, 1973): cease fire in Yom Kippur War

32. Resolution 339 (October 23, 1973): Confirms Res. 338, dispatch UN observers.

33. Resolution 347: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli attacks on Lebanon".

34. Resolution 425 (1978): 'calls' on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon". Israel's withdrawal from Lebanon was completed as of June 16, 2000.

35. Resolution 350 (31 May 1974) established the United Nations Disengagement Observer Force, to monitor the ceasefire between Israel and Syria in the wake of the Yom Kippur War.

36. Resolution 427: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon.

37. Resolution 444: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces".

38. Resolution 446 (1979): 'determines' that Israeli settlements are a 'serious obstruction' to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention".. Israeli settlements in the occupied territories thus declared illegal.

39. Resolution 450: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon".

40. Resolution 452: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories".

41. Resolution 465: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel's settlements program".

42. Resolution 467: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's military intervention in Lebanon".


43. Resolution 468: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return".

44. Resolution 469: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians".

45. Resolution 471: " . . . 'expresses deep concern' at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention".

46. Resolution 476: " . . . 'reiterates' that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are 'null and void'".

47. Resolution 478 (August 20, 1980): 'censures (Israel) in the strongest terms' for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'.

48. Resolution 484: " . . . 'declares it imperative' that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors".

49. Resolution 487: " . . . 'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility".

50. Resolution 497 (17 December 1981) decides that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights is 'null and void' and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith.

51. Resolution 498: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon".

52. Resolution 501: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops".

53. Resolution 509: " . . . 'demands' that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon".

54. Resolution 515: " . . . 'demands' that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in".

55. Resolution 517: " . . . 'censures' Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon".

56. Resolution 518: " . . . 'demands' that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon".

57. Resolution 520: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's attack into West Beirut".

58. Resolution 573: " . . . 'condemns' Israel 'vigorously' for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters.

59. Resolution 587: " . . . 'takes note' of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw".

60. Resolution 592: " . . . 'strongly deplores' the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops".

61. Resolution 605: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians.

62. Resolution 607: " . . . 'calls' on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.

63. Resolution 608: " . . . 'deeply regrets' that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians".

64. Resolution 636: " . . . 'deeply regrets' Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians.

65. Resolution 641: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians.

66. Resolution 672: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount.

67. Resolution 673: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations.

68. Resolution 681: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's resumption of the deportation of Palestinians.

69. Resolution 694: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return.

70. Resolution 726: " . . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of Palestinians.

71. Resolution 799: ". . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.

and so on. If it wasn't for US veto powers, the number would be near 100. Think about how ridiculous it sounds for Israel to demand Lebanon abide by UN resolutions.

People who claim criticism of Israel's ongoing war crimes, crimes against humanity, genocide and ethnic cleansing equates to support of terrorism or genocide should consider the above and take a good look in the mirror
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
113
70
Saint John, N.B.
RE: Nasrallah's MEA CULPA ----YEP, THE AMAZING TRUTH SHOWS U

BULLSHIT!

Israel does not, and never has attempted the destruction of any people as a race.

That is genocide.

That is what Hezbollah wants to do to the Jews, and if you dig gently, they have clearly said so.

If Israel were interested in genocide, there would be no "Palestinian problem" in the West Bank and Gaza, Israel would simply have thrown out the Palestinians and annexed the territory.

Who would stop them?

Or, there would be no Arabs in Israel, much less voting citizens of Israeli society.

Don't be silly.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
53
48
RE: Nasrallah's MEA CULPA ----YEP, THE AMAZING TRUTH SHOWS U

Israel has thrown most Palestinians off their land. Israel expropriated most of their property. A few determined non-Jew Palestinians have managed to hang into their land. But the question Israel faces for most of its Palestinian prisoners, which include entire families from grandparents to grandchildren is what to do them. Neighboring countries refuse to accept them. Israel's solution is to create concentration camps and then move Palestinians into them. Concentration camp is an accurate decription. They are surrounded by walls with armed guard towers, barbed wire, landmines... Israel controls everything including whether Palestinians have food, water, electricity, money...

>>>>

The Sabra and Shatila massacre provoked outrage around the world. On December 16, 1982, the United Nations General Assembly condemned the massacre and declared it to be an act of genocide.

A/RES/37/123(A-F) UN General Assembly, 16 December 1982

http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/fd...faabb796990cf95a852560d9005240cf!OpenDocument

I suggest you read UN Resolution 521 above.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
113
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Saint John, N.B.
RE: Nasrallah's MEA CULPA ----YEP, THE AMAZING TRUTH SHOWS U

My, you ARE being silly!

I've already said the Israelis bear some responsibility for the massacre in the camps.....even an Israeli government inquiry acknowledged that.....hardly seems, in that light, to be a government policy of genocide, now does it? Especially considering the Isrealis were not IN the camps (although they observed from outside the camps without preventing it, bad enough I admit), and NO ISRAELI PULLED A TRIGGER in the action.

Palestinians that stayed in Israel are full Israeli citizens, they vote, hold seats in the Knesset, have full rights of citizenship EXCEPT they can not hold arms and are not required (nor permitted) to serve in the Israeli military. (with the exception of the Bedouin)

Hardly a concentration camp.

Those who live in the occupied territories have a hard lot. But what choice does Israel have? Israel would gladly return the West Bank to Jordan, but that nation has already had its fill of the PLO in the 70s, and will not discuss it. Likewise with the Gaza and Egypt.

When Israel unilaterally abandons its occupation, the land it leaves instantly becomes a staging area for attacks into Israel. Witness Lebanon and the Gaza strip.

So, as I asked before, what choice does Israel HAVE?

Don't talk about past sins, but what could they do NOW to bring peace?

I can practically hear your reply already, and I anticipate it will be one the garauntees the destruction of Israel.

BTW, I don't give a damn about what the UN says, thinks, or does. They are the allies of those that would destroy Israel. That simple.

Or did you miss the UN conference in Durban, S.A. a few years ago? It largely resembled a Nuremberg rally under Hitler, complete with marches where people carried posters of hook-nosed Jews with hands running blood.