Myths about Canada

[Summer]

American culture and education tends to encourage the sort of navel-gazing, self-absorbed focus on America to the exclusion of all else that is demonstrated by some of the posters we see on this board.

And yep, it makes absolute sense to pay attention to what goes on with one's biggest trading partner... but most Americans aren't even aware of that relationship between the U.S. and Canada, or if they give it any thought, they only think about it going in one direction.

BTW, I just got back yesterday from a (too) brief trip to Toronto, and wish I could go back right away.

 

[peapod]

I was wondering where you were summer, nice to see you back, but really next time, visit the best province in canuckland...lotusland...aka British columbia 8) :wink:

 

[Summer]

Re: RE: Myths about Canada

I like the comment about the American legend, the American cowboy. I've really gotta agree and say other legends like Terry Fox or Wayne Gretzky are in their own right Canadian legends.

Seriously, unclepercy, you're very ignorant.

That's cruel poster bashing, and I thought you were not supposed to do that. BTW - look up my IQ. What lame legends. No one has heard of Terry Fox in America/and I am speaking of allegorical legends. Not people who are considered legends.

An allegorical legend transcends an individual and represents something else. A cowboy is a representation of the Old West in America. Now. With that understood, don't give me people as examples.

I could list a hundred American legends off the top of my head(people)/that wasn't the point at all.

Uncle

Sounds like you're a legend in your own mind, Percy. Having a high IQ doesn't protect one against ignorance, as you often manage to illustrate. Intelligence isn't much good if you're not paying attention.

And I don't know what rock you live under, but most Americans I know have definitely heard of Terry Fox. You need to get out more.

And there are Canadian legends and icons, just as there are American ones. EVERY country has them.

 

[Summer]

Peapod, BC is definitely on the list for future visits. Heck, my ski club made a trip to Whistler a couple of years ago, and if I'd had the cash, I might have been on that trip. Rest assured I'll get there sometime.

 

[I think not]

Here's an example:

The Terry Fox Run for Cancer Research New York City

 

[Summer]

ITN, precisely!

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Myths about Canada

American culture and education tends to encourage the sort of navel-gazing, self-absorbed focus on America to the exclusion of all else that is demonstrated by some of the posters we see on this board.

And yep, it makes absolute sense to pay attention to what goes on with one's biggest trading partner... but most Americans aren't even aware of that relationship between the U.S. and Canada, or if they give it any thought, they only think about it going in one direction.

BTW, I just got back yesterday from a (too) brief trip to Toronto, and wish I could go back right away.

That is not an accurate assessment of the US education system, Summer. Courses vary from state to state while they use minimum federal guidelines in their curriculum. World studies being one of them.

You are right though, Americans don't generally know anything about Canada. It isn't the education system however. Have you ever gone to a library to check out a book on Canada? Well I have, I couldn't find a book on Sir John MacDonald.

Canada might as well be Lichtenstein (no pun intended). Actually come to think of it, there were books on Lichtenstein and anything else on Europe, Asia, Latin America, not much on Canada though.

The reasons? They are far deeper than the lame excuse of Americans not knowing anything outside their borders. It's not quite that simple, as it is also not a simple issue of Canadians claiming they know so much about Americans, and most of the time get it wrong.

Documentary coming out in the first quarter of 2007, stay tuned :wink:

 

[Summer]

Re: RE: Myths about Canada

American culture and education tends to encourage the sort of navel-gazing, self-absorbed focus on America to the exclusion of all else that is demonstrated by some of the posters we see on this board.

And yep, it makes absolute sense to pay attention to what goes on with one's biggest trading partner... but most Americans aren't even aware of that relationship between the U.S. and Canada, or if they give it any thought, they only think about it going in one direction.

BTW, I just got back yesterday from a (too) brief trip to Toronto, and wish I could go back right away.

That is not an accurate assessment of the US education system, Summer. Courses vary from state to state while they use minimum federal guidelines in their curriculum. World studies being one of them.

You are right though, Americans don't generally know anything about Canada. It isn't the education system however. Have you ever gone to a library to check out a book on Canada? Well I have, I couldn't find a book on Sir John MacDonald.

Canada might as well be Lichtenstein (no pun intended). Actually come to think of it, there were books on Lichtenstein and anything else on Europe, Asia, Latin America, not much on Canada though.

The reasons? They are far deeper than the lame excuse of Americans not knowing anything outside their borders. It's not quite that simple, as it is also not a simple issue of Canadians claiming they know so much about Americans, and most of the time get it wrong.

Documentary coming out in the first quarter of 2007, stay tuned :wink:

Oh hell, ITN, it was just an overall view of our education. We really on average don't teach much about Canadian history or culture in our public schools, whereas Canadian schools generally do teach a fair bit about the U.S. Are there some schools that cover Canada more throughly in their curriculum? Doubtless there are. But it isn't terribly common.

Canadian history and politics are taught at the university here, I do know that. And our libraries have plenty of material available. Then again, we can also get Canadian radio stations here, and perhaps be more aware of current events that way. But the majority of the U.S. doesn't really have much easy access to such information, and in general it's been my experience that most of the primary and secondary education in the U.S. doesn't really teach as much as it probably should about any nation outside the U.S. The reason I find this omission as egregious as I do is because Canada is right next door, is our biggest trading partner, shares common parentage with the U.S. and also the longest permeable border. For Americans not to understand Canada any better than they do on average is ludicrous.

And it isn't so much the fault of the educational system per se as it is of our culture, to which the schools are simply responding.

All of this is IMO, of course.

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Myths about Canada

Oh hell, ITN, it was just an overall view of our education. We really on average don't teach much about Canadian history or culture in our public schools, whereas Canadian schools generally do teach a fair bit about the U.S. Are there some schools that cover Canada more throughly in their curriculum? Doubtless there are. But it isn't terribly common.

Canadian history and politics are taught at the university here, I do know that. And our libraries have plenty of material available. Then again, we can also get Canadian radio stations here, and perhaps be more aware of current events that way. But the majority of the U.S. doesn't really have much easy access to such information, and in general it's been my experience that most of the primary and secondary education in the U.S. doesn't really teach as much as it probably should about any nation outside the U.S. The reason I find this omission as egregious as I do is because Canada is right next door, is our biggest trading partner, shares common parentage with the U.S. and also the longest permeable border. For Americans not to understand Canada any better than they do on average is ludicrous.

And it isn't so much the fault of the educational system per se as it is of our culture, to which the schools are simply responding.

All of this is IMO, of course.

I didn't disagree with you, all I am trying to tell you is that the reasons are much deeper than you think they are. Our history has much to do with it, our cultures (Canadian and American) play a very important factor. Schools in Canada teach American related topics for reasons of their own, not to the extent you make it sound (unless I am reading you wrong) Most of my Canadian students in New York know very little about the US, other than what their culture teaches them. I'm trying to say it goes both ways. Yes Americans know much less about Canada, but Canadians think they know more about the US and most of the times get it wrong. It is a phenomenon that has intrigued me for several years.

 

[Summer]

I'm simply speaking from what's been told me by various individuals I've met over the past couple of decades (both American and Canadian) and from my own personal experiences. From what my Canadian friends have told me, a certain amount of American history and politics was a required subject in their schools. From my own personal experience and that of my American friends, very few of us were required to learn anything about Canadian history and politics in school. Those who do know more about them took post-secondary courses.

In other words, I'm working strictly from the anecdotal, and like you, I am puzzled by the disparity.

Note: as best as I can recall, most of the individuals from whom my information about their experiences has come are from New York State, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Kentucky, Georgia, Indiana, Illinois, Maryland, Texas, Florida, California, Washington State, Ontario, British Columbia, and Nova Scotia. They all finished high school during the time period from the mid 1970's through the early 1990's.

That's all I've got.

 

[TenPenny]

"BTW - look up my IQ"

People who say that generally have an average IQ.

 

[unclepercy]

Re: RE: Myths about Canada

I like the comment about the American legend, the American cowboy. I've really gotta agree and say other legends like Terry Fox or Wayne Gretzky are in their own right Canadian legends.

Seriously, unclepercy, you're very ignorant.

That's cruel poster bashing, and I thought you were not supposed to do that. BTW - look up my IQ. What lame legends. No one has heard of Terry Fox in America/and I am speaking of allegorical legends. Not people who are considered legends.

An allegorical legend transcends an individual and represents something else. A cowboy is a representation of the Old West in America. Now. With that understood, don't give me people as examples.

I could list a hundred American legends off the top of my head(people)/that wasn't the point at all.

Uncle

Sounds like you're a legend in your own mind, Percy. Having a high IQ doesn't protect one against ignorance, as you often manage to illustrate. Intelligence isn't much good if you're not paying attention.

And I don't know what rock you live under, but most Americans I know have definitely heard of Terry Fox. You need to get out more.

And there are Canadian legends and icons, just as there are American ones. EVERY country has them.

You are being insulting and mean. If you are so smart, give me an example of an Canadian allegorical legend. Be careful. None of the examples given so far constitute an allegorical legend. The USA only has one. No, not every country has one. Waiting....

Uncle

 

[peapod]

Geezzzzz uncle how old are you?? you sound like a kid in the playground, hey look at me I gots a big IQ nah nah nah. No one is impressed by anyone, that has to mention how high their IQ is 8O more than once, I may add...in this part of of the woods, that would get you tossed off the wharf :? Tacky...way tacky :?

 

[Reverend Blair]

If you are so smart, give me an example of an Canadian allegorical legend.

The Voyageur, the Mountie who always gets his man, the Canadian Peacekeeper, the logger. Those are allegorical legends...based loosely on fact and using specifics to represent the whole.

There are others that are less general and are roughly analagous to the smaller stories that make up the larger American mythos...Big Joe Muffurah, Louis Riel, the story of the Mad Trapper of Rat River, the pilot who ate the nurse to keep himself and a kid alive back in the 70's.

The USA only has one.

What would that be? The outlaw? The cowboy? The leader of the free world? Democracy? The American Dream? George Washington chopping down a cherry tree? Ben Franklin having a ket welded to his finger by lightning? George Bush being competent? What myth are you referring to?

 

[peapod]

The mad trapper of rat river 8O 8O Okay lets hear that one

 

[Reverend Blair]

You don't know about the Mad Trapper? He was mad and they had to track him down. It's a story about how smart the mounties are and how cooperative and tough Canadians are.

The story, as generally told to school children, is basically a bunch of crap. National mythology masquerading as adventure tale in the wilds of the Canadian north...kind of like Daniel Boone, but with people who say, "Eh," a lot.

 

[Summer]

Percy, what the hell do you mean by an "allegorical legend"??? It's starting to sound like you're just making it up at this point as you go along: "oh, give me an example of this" and "give me an example of that" and then when they do, you stomp your feet and don't like it, so you put on some more conditions and restrictions and ask again. So fine, give an example of what an AMERICAN "allegorical legend" would be and then let's see what Canada has that's equivalent.

 

[Reverend Blair]

I'm still trying to figure out what the single allegorical myth of the United States is.

 

[Summer]

You and me both, Rev, and I've lived here for over 40 years. Of course, if we did figure it out, then Percy would just tell us that isn't what he meant, and change the rules again.

*shrug*

 

[Jo Canadian]

I always thought it was the guy with the blue cow, -er Ox